11pm arrivals, 4am departures

[BizPilot]

Just wondering how you regionals guys cope with those late night arrivals (9pm, 10pm, 11pm, etc) at out stations and then be up early enough for those (4am, 5am, 6am) departures?

What time is it before you make it to sleep at your hotels? What time do you get up to shower/be at the airport ontime to preflight? Considering shuttle rides, taxi rides, dress-up, dress down, etc.

Seems pretty rough to me. You're talking 4 - 5 hours of sleep max??? Correct me if I am wrong. Was just wondering how it works and if it sucks??

Fly Safe.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

only time i got in late and had to be up early the next mornign was because of our flight being delayed for our last leg. HOWEVER scheduling did push our dep time back due to crew rest and that was that. All my other early shows I was done between noon-3pm and had a show the next day at 5:30am so have had plenty of sleep. this is life at CHQ on the 170.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

Our rest is regulated by the FAA. No different then United, Delta, etc. Reduced rest is reduced rest no matter who you fly for.

 

[Palerider957]

Some CDO's (continuous duty overnights) are even less then 4 hours sleep--yes, less. Amazingly enough it's perfectly legal. There have been several times I have departed on a "nap" as we call them, very late. We arrived at the destination, and just hung out at Waffle House until it was time to go back to the airport.


But hey, it's legal so it MUST be safe, right?

All of my most frightening moments in the RJ have occured during naps, crews exhausted and nowhere near peak performance.

 

[Bluto]

IMO, naps, stand-ups, CDO's, whatever you call them can be just as safe as any other operation. The crews simply have a greater responsibility to ensure that they have planned for adequate rest before and/or after their duty day is over. Palerider, you failed to mention how many legs you flew before and after your <4 hours of sleep. Just curious, but was it 1 leg out and 1 back? I know some companies take advantage of the regs to build some brutal stand-ups, but in my experience they've been some of the best work-days I've had. Show up to work at 8pm, fly one leg, sleep a couple hours then one leg back to be home by 7:00 the next morning? I just wish I could hold them in my current domicile, they go awfully senior.

 

[TheBigH]

Just wondering how you regionals guys cope with those late night arrivals (9pm, 10pm, 11pm, etc) at out stations and then be up early enough for those (4am, 5am, 6am) departures?

What time is it before you make it to sleep at your hotels? What time do you get up to shower/be at the airport ontime to preflight? Considering shuttle rides, taxi rides, dress-up, dress down, etc.

Seems pretty rough to me. You're talking 4 - 5 hours of sleep max??? Correct me if I am wrong. Was just wondering how it works and if it sucks??

Fly Safe.

It's called reduced rest and a way of life for some at Colgan ... Although yea we're supposed to get a min amount of rest, in reality the 8 hrs can be as little as 4 when you take into account going to the hotel, eating, talking to the girlfriend/wife, falling asleep, waking up, showering (optional), getting to the airport, etc .... Just something you have to deal with and hopefully not let it affect your flying ...

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I just got done with a "high-speed" as their called with our company or CDO with other companies. They aren't too bad as long as you have mostly high-speeds on your line. When you have a "regular hours" line and have a high speed mixed in, it tortures your body. It's like working first shift one day and third the next. In the case of this trip, we arrrived at the outstation at about 12:30 AM local. We were on our way to the hotel at about 12:45 and I was in bed at 1:00 AM. We were back out at the plane at 5:45 AM for a departure shortly after 6:00 AM.

As said above, high-speeds are perfectly safe as long as crew planning puts alittle bit of though into the utilization of them and the flight crews plan ahead to make sure they are well rested up. It is literally flying on a "third shift."

 

[Workin'Stiff]

It's called reduced rest and a way of life for some at Colgan ... Although yea we're supposed to get a min amount of rest, in reality the 8 hrs can be as little as 4 when you take into account going to the hotel, eating, talking to the girlfriend/wife, falling asleep, waking up, showering (optional), getting to the airport, etc .... Just something you have to deal with and hopefully not let it affect your flying ...

Reduced rest and CDO are two different ops. BizPilot, I feel, is referring to CDO. So there is no required minimum rest as you are expected to prepare accordingly prior to arriving for work.

 

[TheBigH]

..... safe as long as crew planning puts alittle bit of though into .......

What a concept ... seems like with us the only planning they do is at 5:30am on a 6:00am show time, call you at 5:45 and tell you that you now show at 11:00am and will be perfectly legal to do that ferry flight at midnight ....

Looks like our take is different on this than you guys cuz we usually (at least in theory) have a morning shift and a afternoon shift and we're home every night (again in theory) ... things usually get screwed up when you're away from base or when weather hits, or when mechanical arise, so yea, a lot ....

 

[TheBigH]

Reduced rest and CDO are two different ops. BizPilot, I feel, is referring to CDO. So there is no required minimum rest as you are expected to prepare accordingly prior to arriving for work.

right-o I wasn't familliar with CDO .... hence my previous post ... I'm off this thread, you guys with your CDOs and work rules and all that fancy stuff .... ;o)

 

[taxicabdriver]

We have a few really nice schedules. Duty on around 7 pm, fly 3 legs, get into an outstation around 3 am, sleep on the plane til 6, then head back to your domicile to finish around 8 am. Now that is what I signed up for.

 

[TheBigH]

We have a few really nice schedules. Duty on around 7 pm, fly 3 legs, get into an outstation around 3 am, sleep on the plane til 6, then head back to your domicile to finish around 8 am. Now that is what I signed up for.

Ok, I feel better now ... thanks

 

[wrigley23]

I usually get assigned one or two high speeds a month and they completely kick my a$$. For the guys who have CD lines it might be different. I might get 3-4 hours sleep and then have to go straight to bed when I get home at 8 or so. That entire day is shot because I end up napping til 3 or 4 pm. However the one redeeming value is that you're not legal til 5am the next day (reserve rule). If I had the choice between favorable days off on reserve or a high speed line, I think I'd pick reserve. Some guys love them if they have kids so they can be home every afternoon and evening with them.

Shooting an ILS to mins at 6am after a few hours sleep will really wake up though. Yikes.

 

[ATRedneck]

I had a redeye line for February. Didn't mean to get redeyes, but it fit in great with my vacation.

Anyway, one trip was a 2-day. Deadhead to LAX, arrive at 9AM, go to hotel. Leave LAX at 0030, arrive BJX (Leon Mexico) at 0600, depart BJX 0640, arrive IAH 0920.

The other trip I did was a 4-day. Day 1 was 3 legs, arrive XNA around 10PM. Day 2 leave at XNA around 1400, route through Mexico to arrive at LAX around 2300 local. Day 3 was at the hotel, then day 4 was leave LAX around 0100, through Mexico, arrive IAH 0900.

To cope with the sleep changes, I made myself get up early on the down day before the redeyes, like 7AM. Laying around all day sleeping means that by the time your midnite van to the airport leaves, you've been up for 10 or 12 hours. Then go to bed around 4 or 5 PM and sleep till 10 or 11.

So yeah, you leave the hotel in the middle of the night, but it's with 5 to 7 hours of solid rack time under your belt. It wasn't as hard as I thought it'd be.

 

[NuGuy]

What a concept ... seems like with us the only planning they do is at 5:30am on a 6:00am show time, call you at 5:45 and tell you that you now show at 11:00am and will be perfectly legal to do that ferry flight at midnight ....

Looks like our take is different on this than you guys cuz we usually (at least in theory) have a morning shift and a afternoon shift and we're home every night (again in theory) ... things usually get screwed up when you're away from base or when weather hits, or when mechanical arise, so yea, a lot ....

Don't forget...for it to be considered "legal" rest, you must not have any obligation to answer the phone. So don't answer the phone. Show up at your normal show time, and oops, you just started your duty day.
Nu

 

[TheBigH]

Don't forget...for it to be considered "legal" rest, you must not have any obligation to answer the phone. So don't answer the phone. Show up at your normal show time, and oops, you just started your duty day.
Nu

They call your hotel room, but you're right and that's what I've learned to do. Of course then they find some way to get back at you. Can't win.

 

[pilotyip]

121 is the most demanding of the crew rest regs, the reg reads you do not need any rest if you do not exceed 8 hrs flight time in a 24 hour period, you only need 8 hours duty free. The crew rest will not prevent crews from operating outside of a schedule that allows them to properly rest. The rules have nothing to do with being rested. I flew scheduled 121 cargo, I knew my schedule a month in advance. Nightly run BLD-PIT-DAY-MEM-IAH in an L-188. I still flew exhausted. Start 0200 at DAY ended IAH 0900, out of IAH at 1900, into BLD 0600, out of BLD 2300. Then into IAH 0900 again, 6.5 hours of flight time, standup over day, not legal rest, but a duty break, out of IAH 1900. Drop add all night into BLD 0600, out of BLD 2300 repeat again into DAY 0200, release to go home and assume a sleep at night schedule for four days before going back to being up all night. I was always tried with a messed up sleep pattern, but I was 100% legal as approved by the FAR’s and my ALPA contract.

 

[othello]

At Mesaba 1 of the nice things that our new contract got us was (pure CDO lines) if you fly highspeeds that is all you do for the month. I have bid to CDO's for 7 months in a row. I commute from the west coast to Detroit and there are some perks to doing them.
1. There is nothing more commutable than CDO's your show time is around 9pm the first day and your done by 9AM on the last day.

2. You still get paid 75hr monthly gaurntee despite only flying 50-60hr not to many jobs that you can get paid 15-25 hrs more than you work.

3. You are off all day everyday home or back to the crash pad by 10am and dont have to be back to the airport til 9pm. Great if you have kids at home a 2ed/part time job, Like to golf everyday!

I normaly with the Mesaba CDO's anyways am able to get 4-6 hr of sleep at the hotel during the CDO, and take at nap when I get home 9AM till 11 or noon. still get my 7-8 hr of sleep in 24hrs.

So there are good things about CDO/High speeds.

And plenty of negitives as others have pointed out

 

[91100 100 set]

Before I read this thread, I thought he meant those four day trips that start early and finish late, basically making them 6 day trips for a commuter. Never done a stand-up, actually I did one once, but it was due to a weather Snafu, but I've done plenty of those 5 am on day one to 11 pm on day 4 types of thing.