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Delta Air to Unveil Plans For a Low-Cost

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Indapool

25 characters is not enou
Joined
Jul 17, 2002
Posts
225
Grabbed this off of PPRUNE
Anyone else hearing this?



posted 15th November 2002 05:37
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Delta to Launch Air Sunshine II
Delta Air to Unveil Plans
For a Low-Cost Carrier

By MARTHA BRANNIGAN and NICOLE HARRIS
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL


ATLANTA -- Delta Air Lines, heading into territory where other major carriers have failed, is expected to unveil its plans for a low-cost carrier next week, relying in part on efficient scheduling of jets and crews.

The nation's No. 3 carrier plans to use a fleet of Boeing Co. 757s -- narrow-body jets with more than 180 seats -- providing substantial capacity to compete against low-cost foes like JetBlue Airways, Southwest Airlines and AirTran Airways, according to people familiar with the effort.

These individuals say the new airline-within-an-airline will include a snappy new name -- to try to upstage JetBlue, the new darling of the low-cost sector -- but with an emphasis that Delta's operating expertise stands behind it.

Efforts to operate low-cost carriers within major airlines, including Delta's 1996 launch of Delta Express, have fallen short of expectations. Continental, for example, closed its Continental Lite operation, which muddled its marketing by mixing mainline and discount flights on the same routes.

Yet Delta, faced with nimble, low-cost competitors like AirTran, a unit of AirTran Holdings Inc., and JetBlue in a majority of its markets, sees little choice but to try again. A Delta spokesman declined to comment on the much-guarded plan.

Delta expects low-cost competition to grow to between 30% and 40% of the industry's domestic capacity by the end of the decade from roughly 22% now, and wants to ensure it participates in that growth.

Low-cost carriers such as Southwest and AirTran are among the few making a profit since last year's terror attacks weakened demand. "The low-fare guys are stealing market share, they're bringing down prices and they can make money at those prices," said Ray Neidl, an analyst with Blaylock & Partners LP in New York.

Delta's new venture is expected to serve more markets than Delta Express, which it will succeed next year. It hopes to get more hours of flying out of the unit's aircraft by scheduling planes point-to-point, and avoiding congested hubs.

The project envisions scheduling flight attendants for longer work days than they typically average, thus boosting productivity. It isn't clear whether the airline will ask its pilots to help it cut costs. Karen Miller, a spokeswoman for the Air Line Pilots Association, which represents Delta pilots, said Thursday: "They haven't asked for any concessions."
 
Aside from using 757s vs. 737s, can someone please explain to me how this differs from the creation of Delta Express ? If memory serves, DLX was started as this "airline within an airline" to go specifically against SWA, AirTran and all the other LCCs predominantly in the NE. Why not just replace the 737s with 757s for Express ? It's got to be confusing to the general public.
 
Because Delta will save a lot more money folding Express, and opening a new company. Tax write-offs. Why do you think your favorite night club keeps changing names every two years.
 
Continental Lite, Metrojet, United Shuttle, Delta Express were the majors' answer to the SWA, AirTran, and JetBlues. My belief is Delta's new LCC will come to fruition but how long will it last? I've seen a sizable amount of discussion on this matter, but I think we're hiding the root cause of the majors' disdain. The industry was already in an emergency descent early last year before Sept. 11. It is easy to blame the decline on either the economy, 9/11, or these budget carriers. But folks, the days of true first class travel or last minute business trips paying full fare are fading fast. We're seeing a change in the industry and it is in part due to the travelling public (the consumer). As fast as Walmart has gained its market share, the LCCs are doing the same by offering cheap seats. This has taken hold in Europe with the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair, and definetly has its place here in the USA. If the majors are to contend with these LCCs, they must bring their CASM (Cost per Available Seat Mile) down to the level of the LCCs. I'm rather skeptical about Delta's LCC chances. I understand that they'll be able to obtain FAs at a low rate and high productivity. I'm not certain they can do the same with the pilots. Furthermore, in JFKs market, jetBlue is a darling. They've got live TVs, 162 leather seats, and an expanding consumer following. If anything, Delta's LCC will only get spillover traffic from this carrier.
 
CCDiscoB said:
Because Delta will save a lot more money folding Express, and opening a new company. Tax write-offs. Why do you think your favorite night club keeps changing names every two years.


Tax "write-offs" are really misunderstood. The only thing that a write-off does is offset profits.

Delta has no profits right now to "write-off" anything against. The last thing that they need are more losses, which is what write-offs are.

I don't think this thing will succeed, simply because it would be too painful to change Delta's corporate culture. Mullin's background is regulated industries like utilities and banking- hardly the scrappy innovator required to pull this thing off.

AirTran succeeds because we have shrewd airline management and pilots who have been through tremendous ups and downs. Most of the pilots here have had seniority numbers at three, four, five or more different carriers, and have become convinced that the best way to look out for the pilot group is by making sure the company is profitable, and doing our part to make that happen . . . this is the reverse of the major airlines, whose pilots believe that the way to be compensated fairly is to put financial penalties on the company to protect "their" flying . . .

I think Delta ought to focus on being Delta- delivering a quality product, with a frequent schedule throughout a nationwide network, insyead of losing hundreds of millions trying to protect "market share" which really translates into fighting scrappy carriers for the bottom-paying passenger.


Sheesh!
 
Delta has zero chance of beating Southwest at its game.

Southwest wrote the book on the LCC and has been rewriting it for 30 years. Now all of sudden Delta is going to jump in to the LCC game and be competitive ???

Delta already has its LCC - DCI.
 
rjcap said:
Delta has zero chance of beating Southwest at its game.

The question is: can Delta beat JetBlue at its own game? They'll try to go against the smallest carrier first. It's possible that Delta's LCC will be bigger than all of JetBlue. They'll try to dump capacity first. This will get real interesting.

Southwest wrote the book on the LCC and has been rewriting it for 30 years. Now all of sudden Delta is going to jump in to the LCC game and be competitive ???

No, that was Delta Express. It didn't work. Southwest is too big to kill that way, with an airline-within-an-airline.

Delta already has its LCC - DCI.

DCI is not low cost, not even close. CASM for RJ's is far higher than for larger airplanes. You could pay the pilots nothing to fly RJ's, but you just don't have the seats to spread fixed costs around.
 
No, that was Delta Express. It didn't work. Southwest is too big to kill that way, with an airline-within-an-airline.

So Delta Express was in existence before Southwest ????

You lost me here.
 
Jeff G,

DCI is not low cost, not even close. CASM for RJ's is far higher than for larger airplanes. You could pay the pilots nothing to fly RJ's, but you just don't have the seats to spread fixed costs around.

Well maybe its not low cost but it sure generates positive cash flow. Just look around. DCI is growing like a weed.
 
any delta guys want to comment on this LCC...we have the comments from LCC guys...what about a real delta pilot???

from what i hear (and i am honest when i say it is 3rd to 4th hand rumor) comes from a friend at DAL...the 757's around 30-50 of them will be retrofitted to 180-195 seats...that means NO first class but SWA style legroom and maybe new seats...the galleys will be taken out to allow for more room...coat closets etc...i think the rumor is they will provide inflight entertainment LIKE jetblue...pilots will be delta pilots at regular astronomical wages BUT that could change as quickly as it did for UAL...flight attendants will be mostly newhires at typical LCC start up wages..so young f/a's most likely...not 50K a year plus senior ones...the kicker is 40% more UTILIZATION per a/c per DAY...HOW? i have no idea, but it has to do with point to point SWA style flying....2 boarding doors maybe...also probably some stategic flying through LAS to pick up some all nighters...or start out on the east coast in the morning...end up west coast at night and fly the all nighter to east coast to start all over again...LIKE AWA has been doing for years. granted very LOW yield but coupled with productivity MAYBE it could work...

ALSO...i would like to know if any of you have actual data showing DLX posting profit/loss to offset mainline...i was under the impression that the financials of DLX are strictly confidential and hidden in the mainline balance sheet so there is no way to see IF DLX has been profitable or NOT...

by doing this the competition wouldn't know if they were coming or going...even if they can break even with fuel hungry 737 200's and 50K a year plus F/A's, mechanics, etc...there could be a market for this new LCC...737 200 burns a TON of gas with only 119 pax...757 burns relatively much less gas and can carry another 60-80 pax LONG distances...to me...and i am no math wizard...the amount of revenue added with increased capacity AND productivitywould EASILY offset the pilots making over 200K to fly it!

unfortunately, as popular as jetblue is in JFK...as stated in an earlier post....passengers have shown that they care more for price, then service...if the same product can be purchased for less money i don't think that pax these days will chose one carrier over the other for emotional reasons...you may be the darling of the industry today and the heel tomorrow...just the way it goes...it is up to management to keep up with the trends and adjust business to current trends...the trend now is...go to computer...type..www.travelocity.com...click A to B and look for the lowest ticket....that probably will change when the economy gets back to normal but for now, as evidenced by airfares at historic lows, that is the way it is....and btw...when travelocity comes up with the cheapest fare it could read ANY airline not just a LCC! okay i am getting typers cramp here!

oh well...i guess NONE of us will know how this thing will work for years to come...and all of our opinions are FREE...sometimes you get what you pay for!!!!!
 
humm,

"any delta guys want to comment on this LCC...we have the comments from LCC guys...what about a real delta pilot???"

No Delta pilot visits this board, they haven't a clue what's going on in the industry! Do you honestly think main line Delta pilot's are going to operate like the SWA, JetBlue, and AirTran pilots...there too used to dragged thier feet, inputting data into the computer slow, waiting for the numbers ect. I just don't see it happening.

KN
 
rjcap said:
Well maybe its not low cost but it sure generates positive cash flow. Just look around. DCI is growing like a weed.

DCI is doing fine, but it's not a LCC. Everyone talks about how well RJ's could do against a LCC like Southwest, but the RJ carrier would be murdered. Wrong niche. You need great revenues to make an RJ profitable, but your average LCC would undercut you and have you for lunch.
 
If only DCI could fly B717's. I know the Delta boys won't let that fly, but maybe they should at least consider the fact that they have enough guys furloughed to fill the seats and the increased profitability of Delta would keep them from taking pay cuts in the near future.
I'm sure Joe Leonard dreads the day that DCI can fly 100 seat a/c.
 

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