Goodbye usapa!!!!!!

[Ocity]

APA filed for single carrier status this morning. USCCABA will be a bad memory in a few months. AMF

 

[AppBrookie]

No Surprise here, it's spelled out in the MOU. Not shocking that APA will represent everyone. Majority rules.

 

[Dan Roman]

I feel sorry for them. Thanks to the USAPA track record they start the merger with an extra strike against them. Despite the sad legacy of USAPA there are a lot of good people there.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Surprise, surprise....uSAPa is going to fight the single carrier determination:

USAPA Update

Yesterday, the Allied Pilots Association (APA) filed an application with the National Mediation Board for an investigation of a representational dispute. In doing so, the APA invoked the merger processes of the NMB Representation Manual to ultimately determine who will be the representative of the pilots at the New American. In order for the NMB to move forward, it must first determine the carrier is operating as a single integrated operation. This “single carrier” determination is based on all the facts bearing on whether the merged carriers have become combined into a single operation. The NMB Representation Manual lists the following relevant factors for consideration:
(1) published combined schedules or combined routes;
(2) standardized uniforms;
(3) common marketing, markings or insignia;
(4) integrated essential operations such as scheduling or dispatching;
(5) centralized labor and personnel operations;
(6) combined or common management, corporate officers, and board of directors;
(7) combined workforce; and,
(8) common or overlapping ownership.
The determination is generally based not on what might be planned or contemplated in the future, but on what is the current actual state of the operation. It is expected that the investigation of this petition will take a minimum of six months. The NMB must find that the facts exist to support a single carrier determination in order to find that a single pilot craft or class exists between American and US Airways. Once the NMB determines there is a single carrier, it will proceed to a determination of the appropriate bargaining representative for the various groups of employees, including the pilots. The NMB rules provide at least 30 days following a single carrier determination for the submission of a showing of interest by any labor organization seeking to represent the combined group of employees, followed by an appropriate process for determining the representative, which may include a representation election. Throughout this process, the existing bargaining representatives continue to represent their pre-merger employee groups.
Moreover, it is important to note that the McCaskill-Bond Amendment contemplates the continued independent representation of each pre-merger bargaining unit throughout the process of seniority integration. In particular, the status of the seniority integration process is a factor considered by the NMB, and the fact that the process may not be complete is a factor that would weigh against a single carrier finding. Counsel for USAPA believe that until seniority integration is completed, the determination of single carrier status is premature and will take that position with the NMB.
USAPA Communications

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[Bringupthebird]

I feel sorry for them. Thanks to the USAPA track record they start the merger with an extra strike against them. Despite the sad legacy of USAPA there are a lot of good people there.

They are all entitled to a funeral where they are buried 100 feet below the surface because deep down they are good people!

 

[Bringupthebird]

Ooh, USAPA thinks Single Carrier is premature, but US-ALPA (aka USAPA) didn't think so 7 years ago. I hope the NMB comes back with a succinct two word response, the second being "you".

 

[ALGFLYR]

I don't think they are trying to fight it, just assert that USAPA will be the representative for the SLI until it is complete. That is defined in the Allegheny-Mohawk LPP's which are mandated in the MOU. I think they are just clarifying that USAPA Will continue to be involved in the SLI if it's not complete before the NMB determines single carrier status for the new American Airlines...

I think the SLI will be completed before the NMB rules single carrier. Because of the laundry list items the NMB must determine, it's going to take a while. Probably 6 months as suggested...

 

[General Lee]

I don't think they are trying to fight it, just assert that USAPA will be the representative for the SLI until it is complete. That is defined in the Allegheny-Mohawk LPP's which are mandated in the MOU. I think they are just clarifying that USAPA Will continue to be involved in the SLI if it's not complete before the NMB determines single carrier status for the new American Airlines...

I think the SLI will be completed before the NMB rules single carrier. Because of the laundry list items the NMB must determine, it's going to take a while. Probably 6 months as suggested...

Yeah but always check the Easties' as they shake hands, the other hand is behind their back crossing fingers.... Make sure this time it is BINDING BINDING Arbitration.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Guppiedriver]

I don't think they are trying to fight it, just assert that USAPA will be the representative for the SLI until it is complete. That is defined in the Allegheny-Mohawk LPP's which are mandated in the MOU. I think they are just clarifying that USAPA Will continue to be involved in the SLI if it's not complete before the NMB determines single carrier status for the new American Airlines...

I think the SLI will be completed before the NMB rules single carrier. Because of the laundry list items the NMB must determine, it's going to take a while. Probably 6 months as suggested...

"Counsel for USAPA believe that until seniority integration is completed, the determination of single carrier status is premature and will take that position with the NMB."

Rest assured, the morons are going to argue against the single carrier determination.

AAL has also filed with the NMB, seeking single carrier status.

Of course, every uSAPa supporting pilot wants the SLI to be completed before the single carrier determination. Not going to happen!

 

[johnsonrod]

Good riddance JACKHOLES!!!!

 

[ALGFLYR]

"Counsel for USAPA believe that until seniority integration is completed, the determination of single carrier status is premature and will take that position with the NMB."

Well I disagree with that part of the statement. Obviously US Airways was certified single carrier in the merger with AWA and the seniority integration was not complete.

I do think however, if a SLI agreement is reached between the APA and USAPA absent arbitration, it will happen before single carrier status is granted. If the SLI DOES go to arbitration, that adds time and the NMB would probably grant single carrier status, knowing that while not final, the SLI is in arbitration and will be completed... So for the purposes of single carrier, they would consider the SLI done... Just my take on that part...

 

[Metrojet]

I feel sorry for them. Thanks to the USAPA track record they start the merger with an extra strike against them. Despite the sad legacy of USAPA there are a lot of good people there.

Hi Dan
Thanks for your thoughtfulness , but you don't have to feel sorry for us. We are hiring pilots, new bids on the East very few months, new pay rates, upgrades, new airplanes and running a very good airline.

Don't really know what you mean though, by extra strike - unless you have a secret poll of 9,000 APA folks, I don't think they really care about our fight between east and west as long as it doesn't impact their members and their career expectations and wide body flying in the future SLI. -

And yeah, there are a lot of good people here, just like at Hawaiian, and you probably would feel the same if you and Jetblue merged and the SLI put 7 year pilots at jetblue ahead of or equal to your A330 Captains because of relative position with no fences.

Just sayin
Metrojet

 

[Superbird]

Like sands through the hourglass, the union who's values are divisive and dried bloodlike, days are coming to a well deserved end.

 

[waveflyer]

Usapa's lawyers are just trying to keep the faucet on as long as possible-

Very glad this ridiculous chapter will be resolved in the coming year

 

[Jim]

.... and you probably would feel the same if you and Jetblue merged and the SLI put 7 year pilots at jetblue ahead of or equal to your A330 Captains because of relative position with no fences.

Just sayin
Metrojet

It almost happened at Hawaiian in the early 2000s when we almost merged with Aloha. As I was furloughed Hawaiian at the time, I had already been told by my union rep I would be below every Aloha pilot including those with later DOHs (Aloha had no furloughs). It sucked but I and my fellow furloughees accepted that binding was binding. Hawaiian pilots have integrity. Please don't compare us to USAPA or the bottom feeder East pilots who support them.

 

[Dan Roman]

And yeah, there are a lot of good people here, just like at Hawaiian, and you probably would feel the same if you and Jetblue merged and the SLI put 7 year pilots at jetblue ahead of or equal to your A330 Captains because of relative position with no fences.

Just sayin
Metrojet

I do feel for you Metro, but the analogy of JetBlue/Hawaiian may seem similar on the surface except to be an accurate comparison Hawaiian would have to have furloughed down to the junior Captains and be on the verge of shutting down and need the deal JetBlue had put together to create a new viable airline. Then you would have a similar situation. You had a situation that was extremely difficult to merge. No way can you justify a furloughed USAir pilot taking a west Captains seat no matter what the DOH and totally understandable that west pilots shouldn't take widebody seats that east guys had either. Clearly fences were in order. That said the only realistic option was accepting binding arbitration and going forward.
Just like a man's word is his bond, so should have been your pilots group. Binding arbitration was the only way to go Stubbornly sticking to DOH was a mistake, saying you would accept binding arbitration and then going back on your word was a travesty.

 

[waveflyer]

Well then, I'd say the Hawaiian guys just owned you metrojet-
Good luck with APA

 

[DCAA320]

Well then, I'd say the Hawaiian guys just owned you metrojet-
Good luck with APA

You guys treated the Air Tran guys so well mr hypocritical arrogant ass. Go ahead and put me on your ignore list because I am in your face, bitch.

My friend just went from AT Captain to swa FO. You guys are ****************************************.

HAL makes some really good points, and you cheer him on, but you don't practice what you preach (cheer).

 

[HAL]

Hi Dan
And yeah, there are a lot of good people here, just like at Hawaiian, and you probably would feel the same if you and Jetblue merged and the SLI put 7 year pilots at jetblue ahead of or equal to your A330 Captains because of relative position with no fences.

Just sayin
Metrojet

Metro, your understanding of what would have happened between US and AWA if the binding arbitration had held is beyond flawed. The whole point is - again - that if someone is holding a junior narrowbody captain spot with their original carrier, they should be slotted with the junior narrowbody captains with the combined airline, no matter what their hire date was. Simple, clean, neat. Oh yeah, there were fences around the US widebody flying anyway. And RELATIVE position (since you mentioned it) means within they type of aircraft - small narrowbody, large narrowbody, widebody, etc. Yes Virginia, fences do exist. You just chose to ignore them and try to ram DOH down everyone's throat. Good luck with AA - you're no longer the biggest bully on the block.

And in case you didn't know it, there are 5-year pilots at HA who have been awarded 767 Captain slots. So apparently it's that 7-year JetBlue pilot who would have been complaining. But then again, there were fences at US/AWA, and would be too between HA/JB, so that JB pilot wouldn't have been able to bid into the 330 or 767.

HAL

 

[PCL_128]

You guys treated the Air Tran guys so well mr hypocritical arrogant ass. Go ahead and put me on your ignore list because I am in your face, bitch.

My friend just went from AT Captain to swa FO. You guys are ****************************************.

HAL makes some really good points, and you cheer him on, but you don't practice what you preach (cheer).

While I agree with waveflyer on the East/West debacle, the above is certainly true. Binding arbitration and sticking to your word is apparently only important to waveflyer when he isn't involved.