FAA Ramp Checks

[greed]

ARROW ..... That is it. And no you may not board the aircraft unless you suspect a problem. Beyond that, no need to entertain them.

Very true, if you have all your docs organized and easy to display life would be a whole lot easier.

 

[transpac]

ARROW ..... That is it. And no you may not board the aircraft unless you suspect a problem. Beyond that, no need to entertain them.

Start playing the power game and you're going to lose. The airplane is private property but it's Airworthiness Certificate belongs to the FAA. The FAA Act says they can inspect at any time and at any place to the extent necessary to ensure compliance with all FARs including all airworthiness requirements. If they say they want to inspect the inside of an aircraft and you refuse them access you're playing with matches. On their own authority they can issue a condition notice that voids the AW Certificate until they're granted access. Or, if you really tee them off, they can place a couple of phone calls and get the aircraft seized by U.S. Marshals by stating that your refusal to grant access gave them cause to believe that it might have been operated while unairworthy. Most of 'em are pleasant people but I'd be careful about yanking their chain.

 

[G100driver]

Bull crap. Under part 91 you under zero obligation to entertain their fishing expedition.

You do not need to be a dick, but you certainly do not need to make it easy Especially as a part 91 operator.

 

[100-1/2]

I believe the new Pilot Bill of Rights provides cover for being a dick in response to an FAA Prick. Marshalls or any other agency with a greater grasp of the Constitutional Protections would be hard-pressed to encroach unreasonable search and seizure without due process (Warrant/Subpoena).

A non-confrontational smile and accommodation of their lawful and customary requests would dissuade a protracted pursuit. If, however, you perceive a cause-less fishing expedition, a "respectful decline to forfeit any rights afforded you at that time by permitting this questionable action..." just might be the ticket. But ultimately, their dick always swings lower and bigger in the long run with certainly deeper prosecutorial budgets than you might defend?

100-1/2

 

[TMMT]

Start playing the power game and you're going to lose. The airplane is private property but it's Airworthiness Certificate belongs to the FAA. The FAA Act says they can inspect at any time and at any place to the extent necessary to ensure compliance with all FARs including all airworthiness requirements. If they say they want to inspect the inside of an aircraft and you refuse them access you're playing with matches. On their own authority they can issue a condition notice that voids the AW Certificate until they're granted access. Or, if you really tee them off, they can place a couple of phone calls and get the aircraft seized by U.S. Marshals by stating that your refusal to grant access gave them cause to believe that it might have been operated while unairworthy. Most of 'em are pleasant people but I'd be careful about yanking their chain.

Umm... with all due respect, you have no clue what you are talking about... everything you just posted is blatantly illegal and would land any FAA inspector and any law enforcement agent in front of a title 42 hearing real fast...

 

[gret]

Hope this guy is accurate.


FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION RAMP CHECKS

"This is from a FAASTeam Program Manager and is great information about Ramp Checks"

http://discountaircraftbroker.com/faa-ramp-checks/

 

[con-pilot]

After I retired from the Marshal Service and returned to corporate flying, I sweated blood for years about being ramp checked in southern California.

When I was with the Marshal Service I had a run in with an FAA chap in Long Beach. We were parked, 727, on our normal spot on the northwest part of the airport on the compass rose. So as the exchange was going on I was minding my own business standing next to the access road when this white G-car pulls up and parks.

This young guy gets out of the G-car, walks up to me and says, "Hi, I'm Harvey Haversack and I am going to ramp check you."

I looked at him and said, "Really, sorry but we are exempt from ramp checks, just as the military is. However, I'll answer any question you may have, but I cannot allow you access to the aircraft until we are finished with prisoner exchange."

Would you believe that this young guy took exception to what I said. I was shocked, just shocked that he didn't believe me. So from then on our little encounter went downhill from there.

He kept insisting that he had the authority to go on the aircraft and 'check our records', I of course denied his access. While we standing there auguring, the DICC (that would be Deputy In Charge, Cabin) walked up to see what was going on. Now at this point I would be in remiss if I don't point out that I am wearing a military style flight suit, on said flight suit were a Deputy US Marshal's badge, three other or four patches stuck on it that proclaimed for all to see that I belonged to the Department of Justice, including a little American flag on my right shoulder. Shoot, I figured that the little American flag should have convinced him.

Anyway, the DICC comes up and asks what is going on. Well, our new found FAA friend took exception to the DICC's question and told him, 'it was none of his business'

Wrong answer, the DICC didn't even bother to answer him, he just waved George over. Now George was a nice guy, really was, just a guard, but a rather big guard, like six foot five inches tall with muscles like bodybuilder, which come to think about it, he was. Sadly, for our new FAA friend, George lived to arrest someone, anyone. What makes this more interesting, is that this would be his first chance to arrest anyone. One could feel his anticipation.

The DICC told George to go get a set of restraints, handcuffs, leg irons and a waist chain to hook the handcuffs to, then come back and place our new FAA friend under arrest if he took one more step toward the aircraft.

Well unfortunately for George, by the time he came running back, our new FAA friend was leaving in his little G-car leaving a cloud of dust.

As luck would have it, one of the districts that we had to have their prisoners was running late. So as I am standing there, minding my own business, waiting for the late district another G-car comes driving up. Oops I think, where the hell is George.

This older guy gets out of the G-car, comes up and says, "I need to apologize for my colleague's behavior a little while ago..."

Now we had a nice talk, after the late district finally showed up, I asked this gentleman if he would care to come on board the aircraft, he replied along the line of, "Just how bad does it stink inside with all those prisoners?"

I replied, "Pretty bad." He wisely decided to pass.

So, like I said, I sweated blood every time I flew into Souther California after I retired from the Marshal Service.

 

[G100driver]

I must ask CP, how is that book coming? Your writing style is great! I hope to get an autograph copy one day as I am one of the many who encouraged you!

 

[152SIC]

What is a title 42 hearing and why would hanging a condition notice on an aircraft cause that to happen?

Umm... with all due respect, you have no clue what you are talking about... everything you just posted is blatantly illegal and would land any FAA inspector and any law enforcement agent in front of a title 42 hearing real fast...

 

[transpac]

What is a title 42 hearing and why would hanging a condition notice on an aircraft cause that to happen?

I was wondering the same thing. My CFR index says Title 42 has to do with public health. I've dealt with the fallout from several condition notices but no "Title 42 hearings".

 

[Hawker800]

A little courtesy and respect goes along way in this business and that holds true especially with the FAA. Practice it and you most likely will not have to worry about the legal stuff. Personal experience speaking from several angles. All the best folks.

 

[TMMT]

I was wondering the same thing. My CFR index says Title 42 has to do with public health. I've dealt with the fallout from several condition notices but no "Title 42 hearings".

You need to read deeper... beyond the title...

Yes title 42 does deal with public health, among other things... it also deals with everything from civil rights violations (chap 20) to housing (chap 130)... anytime a cause of action is brought against the feral gubermint or any agent thereof... the arguments are heard before a title 42 federal judge...

 

[152SIC]

You need to read deeper... beyond the title...

Yes title 42 does deal with public health, among other things... it also deals with everything from civil rights violations (chap 20) to housing (chap 130)... anytime a cause of action is brought against the feral gubermint or any agent thereof... the arguments are heard before a title 42 federal judge...

The act of hanging a condition notice will result in a title 42 hearing?

I have never heard of such a thing and I consider myself fairly well versed in dealing with the FAA.

 

[bizjet800]

Well, our POI is "out if town" this week, interesting. I'll ask him when he gets back. If you're going to play hardball with the FAA, I suggest you know your crap and be in the right. A little respect and courtesy go along way, that's how I'd play it.