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Delta looking at 24-30 more narrowbody orders? Article

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General Lee

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Joined
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Delta Said to Talk With Airbus, Boeing on Jet Purchase


By Andrea Rothman & Mary Jane Credeur - Jan 23, 2013 4:06 PM MT

Delta Airlines is talking to Airbus and Boeing about buying $1 billion or more of new jets as the planemakers phase out their current single-aisle models, people familiar with the matter said.

The order would be at a deeper discount to retail prices than is customary, because Delta is studying current versions of the Airbus A320 and Boeing 737, not the newest variants, said one of the people, who asked not to be identified because the discussions are private. The talks are for an order of two dozen to 30 planes, the person said.

A deal of that size would have a book value of at least $1 billion, based on prices tracked by consultant Avitas of Chantilly, Virginia. New A320s or 737s would retail for about $2.8 billion, according to published figures from Airbus and Boeing, although airlines typically pay less.

Buying from planemakers’ existing lineups would fit Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson's strategy of finding less-expensive alternatives to refresh Delta’s fleet while unloading some of its oldest jets. He has bought used Boeing MD-90s and is subleasing 88 Boeing 717s from Southwest Airlines Co.

Delta is seeking an accord in which it would get new planes while having Boeing or Airbus take some of its 50-seat regional jets, similar to a deal with Bombardier in December, the person said. The airline ordered as many as 70 Bombardier jets with 76 seats and turned in 60 of its 50 seaters.

Anthony Black , a Delta spokesman, declined to comment on the airline’s jet plans. Marc Bertel, a spokesman at Boeing’s commercial headquarters in Seattle, declined to comment on conversations with customers, as did Mary Anne Greczyn, a U.S. spokeswoman for Toulouse, France-based Airbus.
Industry Workhorses

Single-aisle planes such as the Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 are the workhorses of the global airline fleet, and seat about 150 passengers, depending on the model and how they’re configured.

New Boeing or Airbus single-aisle jets wouldn’t add to Atlanta-based Delta’s capacity, and deliveries would start in three to five years as planemakers wind down assembly of older models and shift to the newer aircraft, the person said.

Boeing’s upgraded 737 Max with improved engines lists for as much as $107.3 million, while the Airbus A320neo has a catalog price of $100.2 million. Anderson also bypassed those models in August 2011, when he ordered 100 Boeing 737-900ERs with a list price of more than $8.5 billion.
Getting rid of older aircraft is part of a $1 billion cost-cutting program at Delta, the world’s second-largest airline.

Delta had 565 single-aisle jets in its fleet as of September, three-fourths of them made by Chicago-based Boeing or companies it has acquired, according to the airline’s most recent quarterly regulatory filing.
The carrier also had 300 50-seat jets in its fleet as of December, and Anderson said on a Jan. 22 conference call that Delta has a “clear path” to shrink that figure to 100 to 125 within two years.


To contact the reporters on this story: Andrea Rothman in Dublin at Mary Jane Credeur in Atlanta



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
I did think this part of the article was interesting:



"Delta is seeking an accord in which it would get new planes while having Boeing or Airbus take some of its 50-seat regional jets, similar to a deal with Bombardier in December, the person said. The airline ordered as many as 70 Bombardier jets with 76 seats and turned in 60 of its 50 seaters."


It really does seem like DL wants to get rid of those 50 seat jets, and fast.


Bye Bye---General Lee


 
It sure sounds like this was part of the original plan, using the RJ as a bargaining chip to squeeze a better deal from Boeing or Airbus.

Interesting that the article does not mention that DAL wants to acquire more 76 seaters.
 
Are you guys looking at getting new or used 737/A320's. RA could be interpreted as being interested in either, but I doubt you would save that much over buying new, especially as Boeing winds down the NG, they will be desperate to keep the current line going until the MAX starts to deliver. Either way, good news for Delta.
 
Are you guys looking at getting new or used 737/A320's. RA could be interpreted as being interested in either, but I doubt you would save that much over buying new, especially as Boeing winds down the NG, they will be desperate to keep the current line going until the MAX starts to deliver. Either way, good news for Delta.

I think they are looking at both new and used. This article talks about 24-30 new planes "before" the manufacturer switches over to the "new" NEOs on the production line. But, after reading what was stated in the conference call, they may be looking at more used planes as well. I'd really like to see some new or used widebodies show up, but so far that hasn't been the case.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
It sure sounds like this was part of the original plan, using the RJ as a bargaining chip to squeeze a better deal from Boeing or Airbus.

Interesting that the article does not mention that DAL wants to acquire more 76 seaters.

It's in one of the paragraphs:

Delta is seeking an accord in which it would get new planes while having Boeing or Airbus take some of its 50-seat regional jets, similar to a deal with Bombardier in December, the person said. The airline ordered as many as 70 Bombardier jets with 76 seats and turned in 60 of its 50 seaters.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
The much-awaited Widebody Order

Look for an order for up to 20 777-300ER's to replace the whales within 12 months.

We will either commit to more 787's or go with the A350 to replace the 767's within the same timeframe.

From a reliable source*





























*(reliable source is a mouse on the 4th floor that can leaves me messages scrawled on a whiteboard at night.)
 
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I did think this part of the article was interesting:



"Delta is seeking an accord in which it would get new planes while having Boeing or Airbus take some of its 50-seat regional jets, similar to a deal with Bombardier in December, the person said. The airline ordered as many as 70 Bombardier jets with 76 seats and turned in 60 of its 50 seaters."


It really does seem like DL wants to get rid of those 50 seat jets, and fast.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Which is why you shouldn't have given up 70 seat scope to park 50 seaters. They would have been parked without giving up the 70 seat scope.
 
Which is why you shouldn't have given up 70 seat scope to park 50 seaters. They would have been parked without giving up the 70 seat scope.


No, most of the 50 seaters had leases through 2015 or beyond. Had there been no deal, then many of those 50 seaters could have stayed put, and then adding 717s would have added too many seats to the market. Dumping 50 seaters (with deals through Bombardier for new CR9s and maybe Boeing or Airbus to take additional 50 seaters) allows for fewer seats and the CR9s and CR7s to cover for the outgoing 50 seaters, and 717s to cover for CR9s or CR7s. It is upgauging while not having extra planes parked while paying the leases.

It worked out well for everyone, including Regional pilots who may get hired thanks to the 717s. Delta is happy, they get planes on routes that might be able to make money compared to the 50 seaters (CR9s). It helps the manufacturers, who get orders for planes while getting a deduction for taking old CR2s as a trade. It helps mainline pilots, more Capt slots at a good wage on the 717, and eventual new hires. It helps passengers, they get larger planes with a first class option (CR9s in place of 50 seaters, and larger 717s instead of CR9s to some city pairs). It even helps SWA, who didn't want the second plane type, even though they have to pay around $100 million to refurbish the 717s prior to delivery. Not bad.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Look for an order for up to 20 777-300ER's to replace the whales within 12 months.

We will either commit to more 787's or go with the A350 to replace the 767's within the same timeframe.

From a reliable source*





























*(reliable source is a mouse on the 4th floor that can leaves me messages scrawled on a whiteboard at night.)

Anything is possible but we just dumped millions into the whales interior. I'm not so sure I believe they are leaving anytime soon.
 
I believe I read some blurb that claimed they will stay until 2018-20. When the Asians start parking them (and Singapore, and JAL have) then you know their days are numbered.
 
I'm surprised we still fly both 737's and A320's. I can't see Tech Ops liking two different fleet types for the same mission. We're likely to pick one or the other going forward (and it looks like it's the 737.)
 
Hey guys,

Look at the timing on this. What else is big in our world in 3 years? Right, contract negotiations.

The 717 deal worked great for more 76 seaters, is this the way they get a few more out of us?
 
Hey guys,

Look at the timing on this. What else is big in our world in 3 years? Right, contract negotiations.

The 717 deal worked great for more 76 seaters, is this the way they get a few more out of us?

No, not at all. I have it on good authority that Delta pilots won't sell out one more bit of scope on 76 seaters this time.
 
Hey guys,

Look at the timing on this. What else is big in our world in 3 years? Right, contract negotiations.

The 717 deal worked great for more 76 seaters, is this the way they get a few more out of us?

You are ONLY looking at the 70 76 seaters, and forgetting about the 200 plus 50 seaters that by contract have to be GONE. So, lower number of TOTAL RJs. Then the remaining 70 and 76 seaters will have to cover the city pairs the outgoing 50 seaters were serving. That is good for everyone, more seats and maybe more profits on those routes during high oil. Then remember that those 88 717s will fill in for the 76 seaters, on routes that used to be mainline and SHOULD be mainline, maybe some like DTW to IAH or DFW. That is GOOD. DL pilots recaptured a lot of old mainline routes with this contract, and put larger RJs on routes that 50s do now.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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No, not at all. I have it on good authority that Delta pilots won't sell out one more bit of scope on 76 seaters this time.

Unless it reduces overall RJ numbers and finally takes back a huge amount of current Surge 9 RJ routes....


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
So if the company says they will buy 40 used 737s, how many more 76 seaters will you give them GL? They got 70 more for 88 717s.

And yes. I agree the 50s going was in our favor, however I still think my no vote was the right decision for me. I would like to fight for 76 seaters to fly at mainline. No legacy is doing it, but it's got to start somewhere.
 
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