WTF!! Why give me a Visual and expect me to intercept the LOC?

[texan1]

I hate this. Its happening more and more. ATIS and Approach say Expect a Visual and then give you some fix on a LOC that is crammed in the middle of all the other approaches in the FMS in MIA. 8L ... why not just give the LOC approach and leave it at that?

 

[humveedriver]

The visual just allows ATC to decrease their spacing minimums on inbound traffic. They still want you flying over a predictable track over the ground. Sounds like you already have local knowledge of the approach, so if you set up the FMS early, it should be a piece of cake. As a matter of technique I find using the FMS and LNAV intercept to be much smoother (less grabby) than arming the LOC or approach mode on the autopilot. Especially on a visual if I am fast or intercepting greater the 30 degrees. 1000 ways to skin a cat.

 

[taiar]

I have not been into MIA since many many Moons ago. However, in general when you have parallel runways, ATC will clear you to intercept the LOC to protect arrivals on the other side of the field. In MIA's case they are protecting arrivals on 09. never the less I see what your saying.
T

 

[Ty Webb]

The way I learned it, you ALWAYS have an approach to your landing runway loaded and displaying, even when expecting a vector for a visual approach. It's cheap insurance against many embarrassments.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

The way I learned it, you ALWAYS have an approach to your landing runway loaded and displaying, even when expecting a vector for a visual approach. It's cheap insurance against many embarrassments.

You must not be part of the taxiway landing club. :0

 

[GSXR600]

Come overseas and try some really f(*$#up ATC system....the word **WTF** is in ur book every day!

 

[HalinTexas]

I hate this. Its happening more and more. ATIS and Approach say Expect a Visual and then give you some fix on a LOC that is crammed in the middle of all the other approaches in the FMS in MIA. 8L ... why not just give the LOC approach and leave it at that?

You must be new.

Answer: Because they can. It's controlled airspace. You can expect direct to any fix if you are a "/G" or "/R."

Try telling them you're "unable." See how that works for you.

 

[Miami Freight]

Come overseas and try some really f(*$#up ATC system....the word **WTF** is in ur book every day!

So true. Coming in BAH last night they asked to vacate at Bravo, the end of the runway. Upon touchdown they said vacate at Delta, about 3000' earlier. Just said unable. We had already adjusted break settings for Bravo wasn't about to start fiddling with settings at touchdown. I was always taught that ATC convenience didn't trump operational safety. Keep that in mind and you'll be okay. BTW it's always smart the have the ILS cued up even when you are on a visual.

 

[temcgrew]

Flying into PIE from the north and landing 36R we are always brought in on a left downwind. When cleared for the visual it comes with a stipulation to "maintain at or above 2,600 feet until south of runway 9". The tower will then give us decent at our discrection.

Things are tailored to each airport and runway as needed. I do agree with you though, the first time I got that clearance I thought WTF.

 

[airplane wizard]

Aren't you supposed to use the navaids anyway even on a visual approach?

 

[scoreboardII]

I think it's valid the OP bring to light a "cleared visual" then get hammered with "but, stay above such and such, on this heading to LOC final and keep 170 to 5nm".

 

[humveedriver]

I think it's valid the OP bring to light a "cleared visual" then get hammered with "but, stay above such and such, on this heading to LOC final and keep 170 to 5nm".

It's all about stuffing 11 pounds of potatoes in a 10 pound bag. That and noise abatement.

 

[LearLove]

That and noise abatement.

When I hear "noise abatement" I think back to my childhood school days when the teacher would assign pages to read for homework - like your really going to care about it or actually do it - its just not an issue.

Hey Canada, close in takeoff my a$$ - max blast all the way.

O and for the rich people out in Quincy Mass - just delay that turn to 140 for a few extra seconds and remind them that these "noisy jets" bring billions of $ in business to their city every year without which it would crumble back into Puritan farmland and witch dunking trials.

 

[dirkdigler]

I hate this. Its happening more and more. ATIS and Approach say Expect a Visual and then give you some fix on a LOC that is crammed in the middle of all the other approaches in the FMS in MIA. 8L ... why not just give the LOC approach and leave it at that?

My guess is that they are just tossing the aircraft separation responsibility in your lap so they don't have to do IFR separation minimum.... But I know what you're saying..

 

[CAMELBUB]

Get over yourselves guys....don't get your panties in a wad..just fly the jet!

 

[drinksonme]

Just to throw a curve...EWR will report, issue, and expect everyone to perform visual approaches to keep seperation to minimum when they can...yet if you go-around they will tell you fly published missed approach. Just happened to me. Cleared visual...no mention in ATIS nor clearance about LOC or ILS...They called a go-around on us because they miss judged separation between us and traffic landing on a intersecting RWY...then they told us fly published missed approach. What?.....We were backing up with LOC so no issue, but how can they do that. Two totally different clearances under FAR's.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Just to throw a curve...EWR will report, issue, and expect everyone to perform visual approaches to keep seperation to minimum when they can...yet if you go-around they will tell you fly published missed approach. Just happened to me. Cleared visual...no mention in ATIS nor clearance about LOC or ILS...They called a go-around on us because they miss judged separation between us and traffic landing on a intersecting RWY...then they told us fly published missed approach. What?.....We were backing up with LOC so no issue, but how can they do that. Two totally different clearances under FAR's.

That's a bad clearence. I'd consider filing an ASAP. Most operations manuals that I'm aware of require an underlying nav aid to be tuned, but charter visuals are the only visuals that can have a "published missed."

 

[Fly4$]

Just my 2c. In my opinion, when they clear you for a visual, the separation mins are reduced for a reason. Because your heads need to be looking outside, not at the FMS. Screw ATC! I totally agree with the original poster. ATC connot have it both ways.

 

[scoreboardII]

Just to throw a curve...EWR will report, issue, and expect everyone to perform visual approaches to keep seperation to minimum when they can...yet if you go-around they will tell you fly published missed approach. Just happened to me. Cleared visual...no mention in ATIS nor clearance about LOC or ILS...They called a go-around on us because they miss judged separation between us and traffic landing on a intersecting RWY...then they told us fly published missed approach. What?.....We were backing up with LOC so no issue, but how can they do that. Two totally different clearances under FAR's.

Call their bluff, there is no published missed on a visual, stay in the pattern and stay with tower start a turn to downwind.

 

[CA1900]

Call their bluff, there is no published missed on a visual, stay in the pattern and stay with tower start a turn to downwind.

At Newark?

Please don't do that. Straight out until you have some clarification is one thing. A turn to downwind, at a busy airport using intersecting runways, is a really bad idea.

 

[waveflyer]

Human beings on the other headset fellas-

That doesn't bug me bc I have every backup loaded I can have-
What gets me is being asked if I have the field, then get a 10 mile base turn 3 minutes later-
Biggest thing I liked about Oakland is that it's small and ATC trusts us- I've seen 5 get cleared for the visual 20 miles out and we clicked off 3 mile separation-
Don't forget that it's us doing things different that usually gets us the micromanaged treatment- It's why most of us cringe when ATC gives us the green light and the "by the book", clueless unaware toolbag screws it up.