Air Tran 717 to Delta, Avondale Partners

[scoreboardII]

I don't have a dog in this fight and my busted career in civil aviation is well documented on this board.
I don't know how this will end. I've posted various possible scenarios that are possible. Whether or not they come to pass is anyone's guess.

My caution to all AirTran pilots is to not win a Pyrrhic Victory. I've seen too many of those 'victories' by pilots who have followed ALPO over the cliff.

Andy "gets it". He obviously "owns it"> Well said Andy.

 

[Roomwithaview]

ALPA Controlled integration

You can bet on this....the Delta Pilots would be fair in any integration unlike the Stapler Crew from Dallas......

Even if it went to arbitration there would at least be a mutual respect.....not the "$hit $torm" you clowns have put the AT people through.....

Disgusting.....

Um yeah Bill, I think I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.....

We saw how well the whole AGM fiasco plays out when ALPA has total control over the process.

Look no further than USAir/Cacti. That's been real smooth! Hasn't it??

 

[On Your Six]

This message is hidden because Roomwithaview is on your ignore list.


This really is a useful feature. This guy is a total dork anyway, and I can't wait to see his reaction when he is placed at the bottom of the list. Popcorn ready!

Godspeed!


OYS

 

[Roomwithaview]

Honey,

On Your Six This message is hidden because On Your Six is on your ignore list.

You're going to have to speak up. I'm not going deaf. It's just one of those things that happens you know. The docs say it has something to do with automatically tuning out the sound of someone's voice. I tried to explain that your opinion really matters to me. Especially now since it appears there may be a deal in the works to send some airplanes and pilots your way.

I really want you to show me your integration plans. How long have you been at Delta? Are you going to push for Relative Seniority like you wanted when they were coming over here? Just curious if your stance has changed at all.

Anyway, keep talking. I'll try to listen better.

Love you bunches.

me

 

[Formula 1]

Why would GK offer 737 pay rates for the 717?

Hmmm.

It's because the 717 is going away very quickly for 737s.

Oh well. Too late now.

 

[General Lee]

This message is hidden because Roomwithaview is on your ignore list.


This really is a useful feature. This guy is a total dork anyway, and I can't wait to see his reaction when he is placed at the bottom of the list. Popcorn ready!

Godspeed!


OYS

Good for you OYS, that guy really is a wanker.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Why would GK offer 737 pay rates for the 717?

Hmmm.

It's because the 717 is going away very quickly for 737s.

Oh well. Too late now.

He did offer it, but then pulled it away. After the SLI, there may be a lot of people bidding 737 to avoid a move to another airline etc, and that could cost a lot more in training costs for GK. Oh well. Maybe some Southwest guys will come over to DL and they could eventually fly the MD88s? Good for them.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sacha]

General Lee is here and On Your Six has just disappeared. Now the General is complimenting OYS on her recent posts. Too funny.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Weird!

General Lee is here and On Your Six has just disappeared. Now the General is complimenting OYS on her recent posts. Too funny

A while ago I smelled southern fried catfish. Now I smell southern fried possum. WTFO??

 

[Fubijaakr]

AAI pilots would probably be happier at DAL than with the Canyon Blue Kool-Aid chuggers.

 

[shootr]

AAI pilots would probably be happier at DAL than with the Canyon Blue Kool-Aid chuggers.

I believe you may be right. Good for them!

 

[GIZMONC]

Looks like the 717 may is being used as a form of trade with Delta for a gate SWAP in ATL. Sources say that WN first 4 gates will be at the D gates starting in Feb 2012 and now WNand Delta are in talks about trading All the FL C gates for all of Delta D gates.

Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.

During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.

When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.

And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.

 

[Whataburger]

Looks like the 717 may is being used as a form of trade with Delta for a gate SWAP in ATL. Sources say that WN first 4 gates will be at the D gates starting in Feb 2012 and now WNand Delta are in talks about trading All the FL C gates for all of Delta D gates.

Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.

During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.

When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.

And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.

First Post. That's heavy. Welcome to the FI club. Don't forget to update the GeezerMeter at 12am Central Time until December of next year.

 

[General Lee]

Looks like the 717 may is being used as a form of trade with Delta for a gate SWAP in ATL. Sources say that WN first 4 gates will be at the D gates starting in Feb 2012 and now WNand Delta are in talks about trading All the FL C gates for all of Delta D gates.

Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.

During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.

When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.

And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.

At that rate of supposed aircraft transfer, enough senior AT pilots could try to bump junior SWA FOs around after the SLI. And, if it happened it sounds like enough planes would be either transferred initially, or enough new planes from Boeing could keep coming to SWA to keep the Airtran guys around if they wanted to stay. I know this guy is a first time poster, but maybe he is GK, just trying to get things rolling? Never say never.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General Lee is here and On Your Six has just disappeared. Now the General is complimenting OYS on her recent posts. Too funny.

I heard that Sacha and Roomwithaview made out last Xmas eve in LBB. Good for them! I bet that was One LUV, and WON LUV.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

I heard that Sacha and Roomwithaview made out last Xmas eve in LBB. Good for them! I bet that was One LUV, and WON LUV.


Bye Bye---General Lee

LOL. Godspeed Lee, the others will meet the Devil someday, and he lives in Texas.


OYS

 

[LearLove]

what's the average burn on a 717?

 

[On Your Six]

what's the average burn on a 717?

I wonder if it is better than a DC9? Also, doesn't AT have 717 sims in ATL? Did they move them to DAL yet? Interesting if any of it becomes true. Sounds like Southwest could get enough replacement 737s at the same time, so maybe it could be an asset transfer if it happened. Fun to try to guess what the future may bring.


Godspeed to all the AT and SWA pilots.


OYS

 

[tankerhead]

Looks like the 717 may is being used as a form of trade with Delta for a gate SWAP in ATL. Sources say that WN first 4 gates will be at the D gates starting in Feb 2012 and now WNand Delta are in talks about trading All the FL C gates for all of Delta D gates.

Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.

During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.

When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.

And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.

That is one serious first post. Welcome! If true, can you imagine how claustrophobic D concourse is gonna be?

 

[jonjuan]

That is one serious first post. Welcome! If true, can you imagine how claustrophobic D concourse is gonna be?

Talk about a landfill with all of those hefty bag carry-ons soon to populate D.

 

[shootr]

You really don't want to work for SWA, do you...

 

[Elwood Blues]

Looks like the 717 may is being used as a form of trade with Delta for a gate SWAP in ATL. Sources say that WN first 4 gates will be at the D gates starting in Feb 2012 and now WNand Delta are in talks about trading All the FL C gates for all of Delta D gates.

Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.

During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.

When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.

And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.

Awesome info, especially for a first post. Where did you get this info if you don't mind letting us know. As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."

 

[redflyer65]

Awesome info, especially for a first post. Where did you get this info if you don't mind letting us know. As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."

From a guy with post number 7?

 

[Elwood Blues]

I can't ask a question unless I have 1800 posts?

 

[redflyer65]

Just having some fun, hey this is FI by the way. The source would be interesting, I agree.

 

[Fubijaakr]

At that rate of supposed aircraft transfer, enough senior AT pilots could try to bump junior SWA FOs around after the SLI. And, if it happened it sounds like enough planes would be either transferred initially, or enough new planes from Boeing could keep coming to SWA to keep the Airtran guys around if they wanted to stay.

Exactly right. I can see that scenario developing. SWA doesn't want the 717, never did. They were getting AAI's Boeing order book.

I'd expect the 717 gone sooner than later. That said, they can't man all those 737s that are coming without the AAI pilots. SWA can't hire and train that fast. No one can.

So the threat that the 717 is going and the pilots will be unemployed is entirely empty.

When the Arbitrator comes down with a DoH SLI, just suck it up blue juicers, grow up and go back to work. You'll upgrade eventually without screwing your coworkers to do it.

 

[cocknbull]

If the planes are coming from Boeing and not AirTran than how will that work interms of the pilots?

 

[Andy]

I'd expect the 717 gone sooner than later. That said, they can't man all those 737s that are coming without the AAI pilots. SWA can't hire and train that fast. No one can.

Again. Vizzini, truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

I doubt that any of SWA's plans call for taking AAI's 737s without the pilots. The legal ramifications are too great.

But for the sake of yucks, put pen to paper.
Total number of current SWA aircraft.
Total number of SWA pilots.
Total number of additional anticipated aircraft and how many additional pilots would be needed to man those airframes.
Amount of time required to reconfigure new aircraft to SWA style seating.
The amount of time to train a SWA CA from FO.
The amount of time to train a SWA FO from off the street.
The abilitiy for the pilot population to pick up trips due to block hour surges.
Winter block hour reductions and maximum training events that could be accomplished without negative impact on SWA's schedule.

Here's a start: Southwest has 550 737s. AirTran has 52 737s.


If anyone ever wonders why management doesn't respect most pilots' opinions, there's no need to read any further.

 

[On Your Six]

If the planes are coming from Boeing and not AirTran than how will that work interms of the pilots?

This is a total guess, but I would say hiring? DL originally said they would order 200 planes by November. They only ordered 100 of them. DL seems to like used aircraft that can still fly for 5-10 years at low aquisition prices (MD90s). Boeing owes DL money for late 787s, and Boeing owns most of the AT 717 leases, plus 20 more in the desert that nobody really knows where they are going. Airtran has 717 sims in ATL, that could be moved over to the DL training area. If they move them over at a steady pace, (6 per month let's say), and SWA gets used 737s from DL or other places, they could transfer people over. If DL would get a good deal on this, including extra engines or warranties, then maybe they would do it? Otherwise, SWA pilots will get bumped to the 717 and lower payscale after a possible arbitrated SLI.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Again. Vizzini, truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

I doubt that any of SWA's plans call for taking AAI's 737s without the pilots. The legal ramifications are too great.

But for the sake of yucks, put pen to paper.
Total number of current SWA aircraft.
Total number of SWA pilots.
Total number of additional anticipated aircraft and how many additional pilots would be needed to man those airframes.
Amount of time required to reconfigure new aircraft to SWA style seating.
The amount of time to train a SWA CA from FO.
The amount of time to train a SWA FO from off the street.
The abilitiy for the pilot population to pick up trips due to block hour surges.
Winter block hour reductions and maximum training events that could be accomplished without negative impact on SWA's schedule.

Here's a start: Southwest has 550 737s. AirTran has 52 737s.


If anyone ever wonders why management doesn't respect most pilots' opinions, there's no need to read any further.

As soon as SWA added AT to the books, they also added extra training for differences between 737s and 717s. They knew what they were getting into. And, after this SLI, there may be some displacements (downsizing of ATL has been mentioned), so there will be added costs there. It's just the cost of doing business. Even though you may not think so, this mess they created is not even close to being over. Just remember, preserve the CULTURE....


Godspeed to you ANDY.


OYS