I’m confused I thought the PNCL TA was industry leading?

[Seahawker01]

I’m so sick of the joint MEC saying it’s an industry leading TA when here is PNCL mgmt laughing at us all the way to the bank.
From the 4th Q conference call by Phil Trenary

“We'll have our release going out a bit later this afternoon but our pilots at all three carriers, Pinnacle, Mesaba and Colgan have ratified the tentative agreement that we agreed on. So we expect to sign that agreement later today and as indeed very good news. It lets us have a five-year industry standard contract; it's a very competitive contract and will help out tremendously as we focus on integration plan going into 2011."

Now in full disclosure I voted yes. I thought we would never get better than industry standard but I never thought it was more than industry standard to begin with. Operating income was only 14mil last Q with mgmt saying the contract will increase costs only 18mil/yr and operating income should be much better in 2012

 

[RJLoser]

What would you say to your shareholders?

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

You're right, you are confused.

 

[Simon Says]

Can anybody tell me which regional contract (in whole) is better than our contract? If you cannot....then ours is industry leading.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

That would depend on perspective... as a lineholder, Comair, Horizon, and Eagle are all better. As a reserve, well then maybe we are industry leading other than Republic having enough sense to not allow that ready reserve B.S.....

 

[jws717]

I have reviewed the Pinnacle/ Mesaba / Colgan t/a it is 100% Charlie Brown approved average. However this is quite an upgrade from their previous contract.

Having said it is average, I can back up my claim by saying about half the regionals still have better contracts.

 

[DoinTime]

I’m so sick of the joint MEC saying it’s an industry leading TA when here is PNCL mgmt laughing at us all the way to the bank.

Wow....You take stock in what Phil Trenary says? You're not to bright are you?

I have reviewed the Pinnacle/ Mesaba / Colgan t/a it is 100% Charlie Brown approved average. However this is quite an upgrade from their previous contract.

Having said it is average, I can back up my claim by saying about half the regionals still have better contracts.

Mind stating your qualifications for making such a claim or stating whose you think is better and why?

 

[OCP]

Can anybody tell me which regional contract (in whole) is better than our contract? If you cannot....then ours is industry leading.

XJT's is MUCH better than yours and it's around 5 years old. You guys shot your selves in the d!c with a 5 year contract!

 

[Simon Says]

XJT's is MUCH better than yours and it's around 5 years old. You guys shot your selves in the d!c with a 5 year contract!

Tell me why. Just saying it does not make it so.

 

[OCP]

Tell me why. Just saying it does not make it so.

There are so many different sections to the whole thing. If you want some specifics then ask those, but I can't give a bullet point presentation on the +/- of the things. To boil it down, the work rules and reserve are MUCH better than PCL's. Actually better than most any regional. Now PCL's pay rates are a bit better and a few minor things, but over all XJT still seems to have a better contract. (they only fly 50 airplanes)
I can pull up XJT's contract, but I'm not sure if other airlines can. Their contract was signed in 2004.

 

[DoinTime]

There are so many different sections to the whole thing. If you want some specifics then ask those, but I can't give a bullet point presentation on the +/- of the things. To boil it down, the work rules and reserve are MUCH better than PCL's. Actually better than most any regional. Now PCL's pay rates are a bit better and a few minor things, but over all XJT still seems to have a better contract. (they only fly 50 airplanes)
I can pull up XJT's contract, but I'm not sure if other airlines can. Their contract was signed in 2004.

XJT only has 50 airplanes? Do you even know who XJT is?

 

[Poahi]

Trenary probably thinks he gave away the store if > 90% voted for the deal.

 

[OCP]

XJT only has 50 airplanes? Do you even know who XJT is?

Only has 50 SEAT airplanes. Yes I know who they are, we are merging with them.

 

[CptMurf]

I think Simon's point is... Although an airline may have an individual section that may be better than the JCBA, there is not an airline that has better in EVERY section that the JCBA brings.

For better or worse, it IS our new contract, and for the next 5 years. I hope that at that time, we can finally push the contract forward and above pay levels that XJ established in 2004.

In the meantime, I challenge each and every one of us to learn the new JCBA and enforce it's provisions. Do not let planning, scheduling, training, etc. violate ANY sections. Do not accept anything less. It is up to us to enforce this, if we do not, it becomes "status quo" and therefore unenforceable. Let's not let this mgmt. return to a level of violating the contract on a whim. This is a new group, and a new contract. Let's show them that!

 

[BoilerUP]

I remember when the XJT 2004 contract came out...Neal Schwartz was on this board explaining that while XJT's payrates were not the highest in the industry, XJT pilots would have the highest W2s in the industry - even higher than Comair - due to work rules.

Was there any similar claim made for this CBA?

For that matter, was there any similar claim made for the ASA 2007 CBA?

 

[Simon Says]

There are so many different sections to the whole thing. If you want some specifics then ask those, but I can't give a bullet point presentation on the +/- of the things. To boil it down, the work rules and reserve are MUCH better than PCL's. Actually better than most any regional. Now PCL's pay rates are a bit better and a few minor things, but over all XJT still seems to have a better contract. (they only fly 50 airplanes)
I can pull up XJT's contract, but I'm not sure if other airlines can. Their contract was signed in 2004.

OK, you say XJT's contract is MUCH better and it is 5 years older than ours. I will give you the 5 years older and also give you some credit for that on payscales.

But, when you say much better I disagree. I don't even think it is better. For example, our payscales for 50 seaters are 3-4 dollars better than yours.

I don't know your work rules, but here are our highlights. Leg by leg block or better, 4 hour min day.

Now give me some of your better points in the contract.

 

[BoilerUP]

XJT 2004 concessionary CBA:
http://www.mediafire.com/?paxes22v3o6ad26

 

[OCP]

OK, you say XJT's contract is MUCH better and it is 5 years older than ours. I will give you the 5 years older and also give you some credit for that on payscales.

But, when you say much better I disagree. I don't even think it is better. For example, our payscales for 50 seaters are 3-4 dollars better than yours.

I don't know your work rules, but here are our highlights. Leg by leg block or better, 4 hour min day.

Now give me some of your better points in the contract.

I can't speak for the XJT contract. You can follow that link provided.ASA's I's at asacontract.com.
ASA has had bock or better leg by leg for the last 2 contracts. We have a 3.86 ( or something) min day. No ideas where that number came from. We have duty rigs. 1:2 up to 12 hrs, then 1:1. We get paid the higher of the 3.how about full 100% DH pay. Signed in 2007. Those are just a few that ar directly related to what you posted. I'm not trying to say that ASA's is better, but we were hopping that you all would have done better than just barely average so that the rest of us would have more to build on. I thnk it was a really bad idea to give them a 5 year contract. How long did this one take after your last on became amendable? 6 years? So you might not see another contract until 2011.

 

[OCP]

Above written on my iPhone. Sorry for typos.

 

[rjacobs]

I have not looked at every section of this new contract, but overall I will say I still think our(XJT) contract is better overall and in the end will bring me more money at the end of the year. I average around 400 hours of soft time a year(last 5 years I have flown around 800 and got paid around 1200). I generally can turn my 2 weeks of vacation into almost 6 weeks off(as can probably 80%+ of our pilots). Right now I am getting 6.5% 401k about to go up to 9%(some of our guys get 11-12%). Those are just a few areas where I believe our contract is better(just basing off what I read a while ago about the PNCL TA).

There are some areas of our contract that require work. We could make alot more money by fixing some areas without even adding to our hourly pay rate.

Hourly pay rate is but a small portion of the overall contract.

I dont think you all should have let the company have any control over PBS, let alone have complete control, which they do if the language posted is whats really in the contract.