ATP VMC Circling Limitation Removal

[Z_Pilot]

I have an opportunity to get a fairly nice job in China. However, they require that my VMC circling limitation be removed from my ATP. That's fine and all, however, the way my licence reads is that it seems to be tied to each of my type ratings.
Below is how my ATP reads:
=========================================================

(Name) (Lic#)
XII Ratings

Airline Transport Pilot
Airplane Multiengine Land
B737; CL-65; EMB-145
Commercial Privileges
Airplane Single Engine Land

XII Limitations

English Proficient
ATP Circ. Apch. - VMC Only
B737 CL-65 EMB-145 Circ. Apch. - VMC Only
B737 SIC Privileges Only

=========================================================

So my question is this:
Do I have to get the limitation removed from each of my type ratings to satisfy my ATP circling approach restriction? Thanks.

 

[Varig]

If I am not mistaken, it's just the airplane that you will be flying there. If it's the 737, then only the limitation for the 737 needs to be removed.

 

[Z_Pilot]

Well, get this: I won't be flying any of those planes there.

 

[macdu]

Make sure the agency you are working through understands what your ticket says and what the limitation is for. If your are coming over here to fly something you are not yet rated for which I find very interesting, then it shouldn't apply.

 

[Dornier 335]

Do I have to get the limitation removed from each of my type ratings to satisfy my ATP circling approach restriction? Thanks.

I think you have a general VMC circling restriction on your ATP. My ATP only shows the restriction on my type rating, not the ATP. Having said that my license was issued in March 2008 so it could be different what the FAA does now. I assume that you got your ATP issued when you upgraded (with the usual 121 circling restriction), hence your general circling limitation on your ATP. Be safe, and call a FSDO. They should tell you what to do.

Regarding China: A word of caution. It might be a sweet gig, but the selection process and criteria is very odd, to say the least. Do a search in this forum, before you decide to spend a considerable amount of $$$ and time.

Good luck.

3 3 5

 

[Southern Cross]

I agree with the above post, it would appear that you have a general restriction against your ATP. I would also advise that you check with your FSDO (and then maybe a second, different FSDO to see if you get the same info). I'm guessing that you could probably do an approach with a circling maneuver in any multi-engine aircraft with an FAA designated examiner and get it removed (I'm talking the general ATP circling restriction - not those associated with your type ratings).

I'd check with your agency and see what they tell you that you will need regarding the Chinese. Who knows, they may want to see at least one unrestricted type on your license or something else.

 

[Got2Fly]

if you get the restriction removed from one of your type ratings (i.e. B737), then the general restriction is removed from your ATP (assuming your type rating is an ATP type rating). China operators will only be concerned about the type that you will fly.

As others have mentioned, the pay looks good in China, but there are plenty of pitfalls there. I've heard horror stories and I also know guys who are very happy over there.

Got2Fly

 

[Z_Pilot]

Here is an interesting twist:

I am rated SIC only in the B737, if I do a PC in the 737, get the limitation removed, will the ATP read something along the lines of: Circ. Appch. Only approved for SIC??

 

[Got2Fly]

Here is an interesting twist:

I am rated SIC only in the B737, if I do a PC in the 737, get the limitation removed, will the ATP read something along the lines of: Circ. Appch. Only approved for SIC??

Why not just do a PIC type ride?

 

[Z_Pilot]

Why not just do a PIC type ride?

More $

 

[Oakum_Boy]

You're gonna have to redo the atp ride. If you're employed do it on your next PC. If not, its gonna cost you. The restriction is on your entire certificate and the sic check will not remove it. It has to be a pic ride.

 

[macdu]

The first month pay will more than cover your sim cost.........if you get hired. Getting hired is the easy part. It's getting through the CAAC medical, then the ridiculous ATP written. But I have seen guys just stay in the hotel on the company and retake the test until they pass. They are that hard up. A word of caution. Some guy came through recently were I am employed, apparently from the U.S. and during the course of his interview raised a few red flags. The aviation world is very small even over here. There are guys from Spirit, TWA, AA, UA, Kallitta, etc. We have seniority lists and our own histories of other carriers. When you show up and say you were a CA at such and such airline and one of us asks a friend about you at the such and such airline and he states, he is not on the list don't see his name here. Stay home! If you got your type and all you flew was F/O don't try to bull******************** your way through. It gives us expats and anybody subsequently coming through added scrutiny we don't need. Btw, I am not suggesting that the person who started the thread is anything but a legitimate upstanding individual. I am only mentioning an event to those who may have less than descent ethics not to try the same.

 

[macdu]

sorry about the language moderator

 

[Z_Pilot]

I am not sure I am quite following you Macdu. I have heard about the Asian medicals. As for my background. I was at a regional for several years, and now I am a furloughed legacy guy. As such, I am pic rated in the RJs, and SIC only in the 737. The operation I am corresponding with in China is actually not airline. I know things can be shady over there, but I have a friend / colleague at this particular operation and he is quite satisfied.

Anyhoo, thanks everyone for sharing your point of view on the limitation.

 

[macdu]

I think the bottom line to your question is that the company who is recruiting you needs to give you the straight answer. If you need something "fixed" then get them to tell you exactly what it is you need to have done. That way you can say; I did what you asked, I am trying to comply with your request. If you go to the FAA they don't quite know exactly what you need because you don't know exactly what you need. Make sense. I would stick with whoever told you to remove it and get it clarified from the Chinese end. It is somebody over here who will make the final decision about it anyway. If you are going to work at a training center maybe they can help. Here in China it's all about getting to the right person to make the decision, and being flexible. Oh ya, and being patient.

 

[NEDude]

It sounds like you got your ATP in conjunction with a type rating ride with a circling limitation. As there are schools such as ALLATP which do an ATP ride in a Seminole, have you tried contacting them to see if they could help you out? Perhaps you could just do a circling approach in in a Seminole with an examiner and get it removed from the general ATP.

BTW I had a circling limitation on my A320 type rating and got it removed for $1000 through Pan Am about a year ago.

 

[Dornier 335]

It sounds like you got your ATP in conjunction with a type rating ride with a circling limitation.

Exactly my thought. I bet your (potential) Chinese employer does not want to see ANY circling restriction on the type they want you to fly (ATP and TR). The only way to remove both restrictions is with a checkride in that type. Pan Am is a good place and there's another one in ATL (I forgot the name) where I heard good things from.

I hope it works out for you.

 

[Z_Pilot]

NE & Dornier-

Thanks for the suggestions. Perhaps getting the restriction removed in a Seminole would be the cheapest route to go. The only problem is that I have not flown GA in over a decade.

Since I am over two years non current in any jet transport aircraft, I think I would require a full training course. I though of CAE and Flight Safety, but I did not think of PanAm.

Cheers!

 

[LittleDeuce]

I have an opportunity to get a fairly nice job in China. However, they require that my VMC circling limitation be removed from my ATP. That's fine and all, however, the way my licence reads is that it seems to be tied to each of my type ratings.
Below is how my ATP reads:
=========================================================

(Name) (Lic#)
XII Ratings

Airline Transport Pilot
Airplane Multiengine Land
B737; CL-65; EMB-145
Commercial Privileges
Airplane Single Engine Land

XII Limitations

English Proficient
ATP Circ. Apch. - VMC Only
B737 CL-65 EMB-145 Circ. Apch. - VMC Only
B737 SIC Privileges Only

=========================================================

So my question is this:
Do I have to get the limitation removed from each of my type ratings to satisfy my ATP circling approach restriction? Thanks.

No you do not. It looks like when you got your initial ATP you took a check ride or LOE with your airline and hence, you have the circle restriction. (Most airlines to not circle).

The B737 CL-65 EMB-145 Circ. Apch. - VMC Only retrictions are for each type rating. When you take a check ride to remove the circle from as an example, the B-737. The ATP circle and the B-737 cirlce VMC only will be removed. You still will have a restriction for the CL-65 and EMB-145.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dornier 335]

Here's the place I was thinking about: Flight Training International.

Another thought... Since you are furloughed is there any chance you can contact your training department to see if they can help you out? $$$ usually talks.