Southwest Airlines Pilot Takes Evasive Action to Avoid Collision, 2 Injured

[igneousy2]

Admitedly, until I did this over and over again, I just asumed an RA was an "agressive" maneuver. Well it isn't.

Yeah...these are the same instructors that told you that you were not allowed to lower the nose to recover from a stall in a transport.

It works great in the sterile world of the sim...but the equipment doesn't always work so good in the real world. Everybody lived that's all that really matters.

 

[BigMotorToter]

Yeah...these are the same instructors that told you that you were not allowed to lower the nose to recover from a stall in a transport.

It works great in the sterile world of the sim...but the equipment doesn't always work so good in the real world. Everybody lived that's all that really matters.

What?

Didn't realize Japan Airlines Instructors taught C172 training in a sim.

I've never been told by any instructor at any airline I've flown at that I "can't lower the nose to recover from a stall".

You do have a point on real world vs. sim world. Maybe the SW 737's TCAS didn't give a warning until just a few seconds before apparent collision. I don't know. But TCAS is designed to give (I am trying to remember but not sure) at least 30 or 40 second warning, meaning if you do nothing a collision will happen in 30 or 40 seconds. That is a long time. It is designed that way for a reason so you don't (most of the time) have to do a radical maneuver to avoid collision.

What happened in this case is anyones guess right now. I always give the pilot the benefit of the doubt until the reports come out, that's why I said " I wasn't there, and everyone lived so its a good thing). But I also wanted to put out some info that I have acquired over the years. Do with it what you wish.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Wasn't Kevin Smith also going to BUR? Just think, had he been on that same plane, his extra weight may have caused more of a lag in the evasive maneuver, and the 737 may have hit that other plane! So, what should corpulent people do from now on? Buy 1st class seats on legacies, they have larger seats. Instead of going OAK to BUR, Smith should have taken the bridge over to SFO and flown AA or UA to LAX. It would have been more comfortable, indeed.

Bye Bye---General Lee

And if I were I flight attendant, I would feel much safer working on a Delta airplane because if the flight is less than 300 miles then I would be sitting on my fat as$ because it's not enough "time" to serve - even if smooth.

You should come back domestic General and see how it is these days. I just rode BNA-ATL the other day - blue sky, smooth ride and the sky hag announced "unable to serve due to short duration of the flight". Pretty funny. I hope they had enough US, In Touch, Star, People, etc. stuff to read on that "short" flight.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

And if I were I flight attendant, I would feel much safer working on a Delta airplane because if the flight is less than 300 miles then I would be sitting on my fat as$ because it's not enough "time" to serve - even if smooth.

So being a pay for training person, you just sit on your "fat ass" up in the cockpit? Were you the one who was flying without any clothes on? I bet you're the guy tanker clown gets all his information from!

You should come back domestic General and see how it is these days. I just rode BNA-ATL the other day - blue sky, smooth ride and the sky hag announced "unable to serve due to short duration of the flight". Pretty funny. I hope they had enough US, In Touch, Star, People, etc. stuff to read on that "short" flight.

So what is it that you read on those 6 legs doing the texas 2 step?
American Bride?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[boeingdriver213]

Broken shoulder.

 

[General Lee]

Dude. Sometimes you twist your hatred toward Southwest in a funny way but lately - not so much. I'm sorry you are an unhappy person.

Gup

Nah, it was supposed to be funny. And, I don't hate SWA or you guys, I just really wouldn't want to fly what you do, and as often as you do. I would like the pay again, and hopefully that will happen sooner than later. Other than that, you go ahead and enjoy those multiple leg days, and my jabs. No hard feelings, right? (That is what she said...)


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

And if I were I flight attendant, I would feel much safer working on a Delta airplane because if the flight is less than 300 miles then I would be sitting on my fat as$ because it's not enough "time" to serve - even if smooth.

You should come back domestic General and see how it is these days. I just rode BNA-ATL the other day - blue sky, smooth ride and the sky hag announced "unable to serve due to short duration of the flight". Pretty funny. I hope they had enough US, In Touch, Star, People, etc. stuff to read on that "short" flight.

I recently flew a 4 day domestic trip (they have added a lot in the bid packet during the Winter due to many Europe flights not being daily until Summer season), and I remembered why I enjoy 1 leg to Europe, great meals, and then one leg back. But, I did get to see a long SFO layover, and a Manhattan layover, and that made me feel great. As far as how the stews do, I don't really know. They work hard on most of the Europe stuff I do, while I eat a great meal and then take a 3 hour nap in the back....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[The Prussian]

Boy...things around here were doing great till you went domestic.

 

[NuGuy]

I'm surprised there aren't more incidents like this in Southern California. We get hundreds of RAs alone going into LGB and BUR (near Van Nuys). Bug smashers are dangerous in this region, remember Cerritos mid-air?

Interesting perspective, considering that the "bug smashers" have every much a right to be there as the airlines do.

The PSA accident in California is an interesting couterpoint to Cerritios. AAR 79-05 if anyone is interested.

Nu

 

[Red Line]

I recently flew a 4 day domestic trip (they have added a lot in the bid packet during the Winter due to many Europe flights not being daily until Summer season), and I remembered why I enjoy 1 leg to Europe, great meals, and then one leg back. But, I did get to see a long SFO layover, and a Manhattan layover, and that made me feel great. As far as how the stews do, I don't really know. They work hard on most of the Europe stuff I do, while I eat a great meal and then take a 3 hour nap in the back....


Bye Bye---General Lee

General,

Where did you guys go to eat in SFO? What about Manhattan? I want to feel great too!!

Is going to Europe really as neat as you make it out to be? I can't wait until the summer so you can tell us every day how great the trip is!

Thanks!

 

[General Lee]

General,

Where did you guys go to eat in SFO? What about Manhattan? I want to feel great too!!

Is going to Europe really as neat as you make it out to be? I can't wait until the summer so you can tell us every day how great the trip is!

Thanks!

SFO has some really great sushi, always fresh. And, the Wharf has great clam chowder. Manhattan is great for everyone, since everyone seems to find their "own" little place that they go back to again and again. I like a certain pizza joint near Times Square.

And, Europe flying is not for everyone. A lot of people can't sleep on the flights in the seat (in 1st Class), or sleep when they get over there. Luckily, I can, on the plane and on the layover. Europe flying is best described as "a great buffet on the way to happy hour". The food on the flight is usually pretty tasty, and we are given choices before leaving the gate, and we give our preferences and when we would like to eat. I always throw in a sundae too, since there seems to leftovers. I also try to workout for about an hour after I get up from my 2-3 hour nap after arriving, so I can totally look ripped in my shirt that is two sizes too small. I do get a lot of looks from the locals, and most of them are from girls.

Thanks for asking, your excitement seems palpable. I dig that! Right arm dude! Farm Out!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[vetrider]

I read somewhere awhile back that some in ATC had a dark humor nick name for tcas, calling it 'tcrash.' I've seen people literally drop all mental faculties, go bannanas and get tunnel vision looking outside just because some dumb little box said 'traffic traffic.'

Tcas sounds like a great thing, and go along with it because it's part of what we do, but I sure don't like it.

 

[waveflyer]

You don't like TCAS? .... seriously? ... That sounds pretty dumb... Does the autopilot and FMS piss you off too? How about Radar? GPWS? Sounds like you have a problem with some pilots' response to TCAS, as if that's the TCAS's fault...

Everyone lived. I completely agree with the previous poster. Flight attendants can deal with bruises and broken bones, easier than any of us could deal with a major accident.

and i also agree, the flight attendant's should have been seated that low- especially flying around the mountains- just for that reason-

 

[filejw]

If they were under 10,000 why weren't the FAs seated?

Your kidding right....Second guessing this guy is so immature especially in So Cal airspace.....

 

[Mr Wu]

Descending into SBN one night we got an RA that told us to descend, so we did. Then it told us to descend faster and we saw the target airplane below us. Had to make a pretty radical maneuver to avoid it. Turns out that the other airplane had a plain jane Mode C xpndr so ours gave us a faster descent to avoid it. Maybe this is what happened to this SWA guy?

 

[vetrider]

You don't like TCAS? .... seriously? ... That sounds pretty dumb... Does the autopilot and FMS piss you off too? How about Radar? GPWS? Sounds like you have a problem with some pilots' response to TCAS, as if that's the TCAS's fault...

Seriously, I don't like TCAS. I do like all that other stuff though. Not to worry, like I said, I'm going with the program, but I personally don't feel any safer because of TCAS.

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/RiskManagement/skyguided-3.html

 

[MILPILOT17]

Seriously, I don't like TCAS. I do like all that other stuff though. Not to worry, like I said, I'm going with the program, but I personally don't feel any safer because of TCAS.

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/RiskManagement/skyguided-3.html

WOW!! I can't even respond to that. WOW!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

What is the dividing line between the pilot was too aggressive in manuevering, and the pilot was not aggressive enough and got too close to the conflicting traffic?

cliff
NBO

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Seriously, I don't like TCAS. I do like all that other stuff though. Not to worry, like I said, I'm going with the program, but I personally don't feel any safer because of TCAS.

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/RiskManagement/skyguided-3.html

Worth quoting:

If your TCAS issues a RA, Air Traffic Control has already failed. At this point, the TCAS system is infinitely more valuable than ATC’s instructions. Most enroute radars have update rates between 6 and 10 seconds – the information your TCAS is providing is much more timely and, by design, training, and regulation, takes precedence over ATC commands.

 

[737tanker]

If they were under 10,000 why weren't the FAs seated?

Because the procedure is to give 1 ring of the F/A Call Button when at 10,000 ft. This tells the F/As that sterile cockpit rules are in effect and for them to secure the cabin for arrival. So until the cabin is cleaned up the F/As will not be seated. Which means they won't be seated to well below 10,000 ft.