Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

New USAPA Legal Action

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Joey Bagodonutz

$eniority for $ale
Joined
May 25, 2005
Posts
41
Following the most recent ruling in the long-running USAPA legal case, the union has decided to sue the presiding judge in the case, Judge Neil V. Lake.

While Judge Lake was delivering the ruling denying USAPA’s request for dismissal of the case, he reportedly raised his eyebrows numerous times and raised his voice toward USAPA’s counsel. USAPA’s complaint repeatedly discusses this “hostile attitude toward the defendant” and requests a change of venue for the AWA pilots vs. USAPA case, as well as punitive damages of $200 million.

“We are extremely disappointed with the lack of cooperation expressed by the Judge during this case. The harsh words in his complaint caused Union leaders to be unable to answer the toll-free safety hotline, and his blatant disregard for the Union’s case has caused immense harm to the Union as well as the hard-working BOS, CLT, DCA, LGA, and PHL-based pilots of US Airways. We are troubled by the events that have happened in his courtroom and feel the only way to obtain a fair hearing is to show him who’s boss,” noted Steve Bradford, President of USAPA.

When asked for comment, Judge Lake started muttering “How did I end up with this case?” and walked away.

This case marks the 15th legal action implemented by USAPA since the Union’s certification in April 2008.

When asked how the Union would be financing the legal bills, USAPA Spokesman, Captain James Ray, noted “The Union received a credit line increase on the Union’s US Airways Business Mastercard last week. As a result, the Union has enough funding to keep all programs fully functional, except for the ASAP program which we ended this week.”
 
Following the most recent ruling in the long-running USAPA legal case, the union has decided to sue the presiding judge in the case, Judge Neil V. Lake.

While Judge Lake was delivering the ruling denying USAPA’s request for dismissal of the case, he reportedly raised his eyebrows numerous times and raised his voice toward USAPA’s counsel. USAPA’s complaint repeatedly discusses this “hostile attitude toward the defendant” and requests a change of venue for the AWA pilots vs. USAPA case, as well as punitive damages of $200 million.

“We are extremely disappointed with the lack of cooperation expressed by the Judge during this case. The harsh words in his complaint caused Union leaders to be unable to answer the toll-free safety hotline, and his blatant disregard for the Union’s case has caused immense harm to the Union as well as the hard-working BOS, CLT, DCA, LGA, and PHL-based pilots of US Airways. We are troubled by the events that have happened in his courtroom and feel the only way to obtain a fair hearing is to show him who’s boss,” noted Steve Bradford, President of USAPA.

When asked for comment, Judge Lake started muttering “How did I end up with this case?” and walked away.

This case marks the 15th legal action implemented by USAPA since the Union’s certification in April 2008.

When asked how the Union would be financing the legal bills, USAPA Spokesman, Captain James Ray, noted “The Union received a credit line increase on the Union’s US Airways Business Mastercard last week. As a result, the Union has enough funding to keep all programs fully functional, except for the ASAP program which we ended this week.”
That is awesome USAPA pissing one person off at a time
 
This spoof is a hoot but the real thing is even better. At the hearings back in November on the union request for dismissal the Judge called the attorney for US-c-a-b-a "Mr Semen".
 
"We are troubled by the events that have happened in his courtroom and feel the only way to obtain a fair hearing is to show him who’s boss,” noted Steve Bradford, President of USAPA.

While I think USAPA is an embarrassment to the entire profession, how can you guys keep a clown like Bradford in charge of things? How on earth do you think you will ever prevail with comments like this. Ok, so you get rid of this judge....do you think the next judge is going to appreciate being showed "who is boss?" Bradford has stepped on his wang repeatedly and is making you all a laughing stock.
 
Carefull guys, this looks alot like racketeering, in usapa's view. History shows they don't look kindly on such criminal activities.
 
Following the most When asked how the Union would be financing the legal bills, USAPA Spokesman, Captain James Ray, noted “The Union received a credit line increase on the Union’s US Airways Business Mastercard last week. As a result, the Union has enough funding to keep all programs fully functional, except for the ASAP program which we ended this week.”

This so-called union has not got a dime from me. I'm not going to finance lawsuits against fellow pilots.
 
"We are troubled by the events that have happened in his courtroom and feel the only way to obtain a fair hearing is to show him who’s boss,” noted Steve Bradford, President of USAPA.

While I think USAPA is an embarrassment to the entire profession, how can you guys keep a clown like Bradford in charge of things? How on earth do you think you will ever prevail with comments like this. Ok, so you get rid of this judge....do you think the next judge is going to appreciate being showed "who is boss?" Bradford has stepped on his wang repeatedly and is making you all a laughing stock.

They are no more of an embarrassment to the profession than ALPA. ALPA never met a give-back it didn't like. The leaders of ALPA will give anything and everything away for the line pilot as long as they keep theirs.
 
USAPA fought very hard to fight the AWA pilots suit being granted Class Action status. They lost both with Judge Lake and with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. They are screwed
 
They are no more of an embarrassment to the profession than ALPA. ALPA never met a give-back it didn't like. The leaders of ALPA will give anything and everything away for the line pilot as long as they keep theirs.

I beg to disagree. Bradford is a huge embarrassment. Last I checked in regards to ALPA, our negotiating committee and MEC are handling our contract at Alaska...not ALPA national. They are helping with money, lawyers and contract specialists in a support role. They are not dictating the terms of the contract. Did ALPA National force something on you or was it the binding arbitration YOU ALL AGREED TO??? In regards to TWA, sure ALPA screwed them over and I wish someone would have been held accountable. But, nobody is perfect. This joke of a union president at USAPA though is unbelievable. If you want to go anywhere me thinks you have to fire his a$$ and get someone else in there that knows how to work with others.
 
I don't work for US Air. I do not know all the details of what's going on over there. As an ALPA pilot at another legacy, I am glad there is finally a group who had the backbone to oust them for their wrongs. I wish my airline would de-certify ALPA.
 
I don't work for US Air. I do not know all the details of what's going on over there. As an ALPA pilot at another legacy, I am glad there is finally a group who had the backbone to oust them for their wrongs. I wish my airline would de-certify ALPA.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't binding arbitration that both sides agree to put US Air pilots in this situation? What did ALPA do to the US Air Pilots? Last I checked, they tossed ALPA because it was the only chance they had to nullify the binding arbitration. I am not a huge ALPA fan, but tell me, what did ALPA National do in this situation?
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't binding arbitration that both sides agree to put US Air pilots in this situation? What did ALPA do to the US Air Pilots? Last I checked, they tossed ALPA because it was the only chance they had to nullify the binding arbitration. I am not a huge ALPA fan, but tell me, what did ALPA National do in this situation?


NOTHING!
 
They are no more of an embarrassment to the profession than ALPA. ALPA never met a give-back it didn't like. The leaders of ALPA will give anything and everything away for the line pilot as long as they keep theirs.

Isn't it in the best interest of ALPA to keep the number from which they take 1.95% as high as possible? I mean if you think that they are that corrupt, why would they want to choke off their personal ATM?

Additionally, name an accomplishment that USAPA can take credit for. What has been provided in exchange for millions in dues money? Where's the promised value?
 
ALL ABOARD!! THE ALPA BLAME TRAIN IS ABOUT TO LEAVE THE STATION!! PASSENGERS BE SURE TO HAVE YOUR TRAIN TICKETS PUNCHED BY OUR CONDUCTORS: BeCareful, MCDU, et al.

CHUGA CHUGA CHUGA CHUGA....WHOO...WHOO:p
 
Last I checked, they tossed ALPA because it was the only chance they had to nullify the binding arbitration.
Who did you check with? Did you check that here on FlightNoRealInfo.com?

I think that the the original USAPA constitution had something along those lines as their number one reason for their formation. I remember reading something like that on their website when they originally formed or were campaigning for votes. I even think that those lines from the original constitution are being used as evidence against USAPA in the Addington DFR case.

Regardless, to deny that the seniority list was the main reason for ousting ALPA is delusional.
 
From Holly
Which brings us to the continuing dysfunctional pilot group situation at US Airways.

As most of you are aware, the mess with the pilots at US Airways began after the majority of the pilot group that came from US Airways refused to go along with the seniority decision that an ALPA arbitrator issued. The pilots who had worked for America West had no problem with the decision.

As I have written here in the past, it was at this point that the national ALPA leadership failed. Instead of telling the pilots who had come from US Airways that the process dictated in the ALPA rules and regulations had been followed, and that was the end of it, ALPA national allowed the leadership at the pilot group at US Airways a "foot in the door" so to speak concerning the way in which the list was determined. And that led to the end of... ALPA.

The pilot group from the old US Airways, which we now refer to as the US Airways East group decided that ALPA had to go. Apparently, someone came to the conclusion that this would be a good way to "avoid" the arbitration decision.

Not particularly bright thinking.

So this group, which outnumbers the old America West or US Airways West pilot group, by a significant margin, voted in a new "independent" union last spring, the U.S. Airline Pilots Association. USAPA for short.

Now what?

Well, all this sound and fury created pretty much nothing. At least nothing positive.

The US Airways West pilots essentially decided to band together and not pay dues to the new independent union, and the USAPA union continued to push for a new seniority list, while as far as the US Airways West pilots are concerned, there is a seniority list.

A lot of rhetoric. A lot of legal bills. A lot of name calling. But no progress on what is really important -- a new contract.

Remember that the company is officially pretty hamstrung on all this. It can't show favoritism to either group. But on the other hand -- it continues to save money because the US Airways East pilot group is still being paid the same lower wages they were being paid when the takeover of US Airways by America West took place. Why? Because there is no new contract. Why? Because the US Airways East pilots refused to accept anything less than a straight date-of-hire seniority agreement.

However, having said that the company is "officially" hamstrung, there are those on the US Airways West side who wonder whether things might not have gotten to this point if Doug Parker, US Airways CEO, had taken a stronger stance with both groups earlier on. You know, had one of those Herb-type "Come to Jesus" meetings with union leaders from both camps.

I can understand the argument, but with this situation, I doubt it would have made a difference.

To make all of this even more ludicrous, consider the new ALPA seniority agreement between the pilots at Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines. Essentially, it is based on the exact same guidelines that were used in the original US Airways arbitration decision. It is also what is termed a "ratio" list -- not one based solely on date of hire.

Taking a quote from a Leonidas update, "Not much else can be said other than that there was arbitration, that the arbitration was carried out in the exact same manner as every other arbitration in the past, and that both parties participated in the arbitration process fully, and without objection. Furthermore, it did not take a rocket scientist to figure out that an arbitrator who had twice before combined pilot lists using a ratio formula would likely do it again in this case -- especially in light of the disparate condition of the airlines being merged."

As I told Delta Air Lines ALPA MEC Chairman Lee Moak in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago, "Your job was made a lot easier because of what happened with US Airways."

And it was. ALPA was not going to let the same disaster happen again.

Now you have been brought up to date. Almost.

I mentioned the name Leonidas. That is the name of the LLC, comprised of US Airways West pilots, that was formed for the purpose of litigtion against USAPA. You can access their website here. On the website you will see a list of Leonidas objectives that were posted on March 15. Those pretty much sum it all up.

What is the point of this lawsuit? The US Airways West pilot group is seeking a single collective bargaining agreement that implements the original Nicolau ALPA seniority list. That is the main objective.

There is also the messy issue of US Airways furloughing US Airways West pilots and not US Airways East pilots. This is a side effect of the airline still having to operate the airline with two separate pilot groups. Because there have been more capacity cuts in the West, this has meant that more US Airways West pilots are in line to be furloughed.

I won't get into the finer points of this -- just suffice to say that if the original seniority list was accepted, this would all take care of itself.

As I said, this case has continued to move forward through the court system, and as of now, it looks like the case will go to court the last week of April. April 28 to be exact. The pre-trial conference is now set for the 17th. It will be a jury trial.

I said here last week that even if the US Airways West pilots win I was not sure how that would change things that much in the short term -- because I would anticipate an appeal on the part of the USAPA group.

But this week, I was told by one source that's close to the case that if USAPA loses the case --while they could appeal -- it would have to be on a matter of procedure. Because it is a Federal civil jury trial, an appeal based on the merits of the case would not be allowed.

While that may be true, there is still the issue of just what will happen if the court rules in favor of the US Airways West pilot group. And yes, I think that is what is going to happen. Then what? I really doubt that the folks over at the US Airways East camp are going to come over, smoke a peace pipe, and everybody will then sing around the campfire in perfect harmony.

Meanwhile, there is apparently political disharmony in the USAPA camp, from what we understand. It appears that USAPA's own appeal board just ruled that the recent election for union officers was illegal because a US Airways West pilot was precluded from running.

Got that? Another brilliant stroke of genius.

I know. It would make a great book. All of it.

Now it is apparently up to the USAPA board to determine what they will do. If they do not re-run the election, a source told us this week that the Department of Labor will be getting involved. Either way, it would appear that a new election of USAPA officers will not take place until after the trial is over.

A change in control at the top of USAPA could mean a change to a leadership that perhaps has its priorities more attuned with getting a new contract. And not arguing over a decision that should have been accepted when it was made.

I told you it was a mess.

I applaud the US Airways West pilot group for fighting this. They have been very up front about the fact that they are accepting no help from ALPA, the airline or anyone else -- except US Airways West pilots and friends of the effort.

I think that perhaps some of their other pilot friends might want to take a look at what they are doing -- in terms of trying to maintain the integrity of union merger rules and procedures. These guys should not have to be fighting this battle on their own.
 
From Holly
Which brings us to the continuing dysfunctional pilot group situation at US Airways.

As most of you are aware, the mess with the pilots at US Airways began after the majority of the pilot group that came from US Airways refused to go along with the seniority decision that an ALPA arbitrator issued. The pilots who had worked for America West had no problem with the decision.

As I have written here in the past, it was at this point that the national ALPA leadership failed. Instead of telling the pilots who had come from US Airways that the process dictated in the ALPA rules and regulations had been followed, and that was the end of it, ALPA national allowed the leadership at the pilot group at US Airways a "foot in the door" so to speak concerning the way in which the list was determined. And that led to the end of... ALPA.

The pilot group from the old US Airways, which we now refer to as the US Airways East group decided that ALPA had to go. Apparently, someone came to the conclusion that this would be a good way to "avoid" the arbitration decision.

Not particularly bright thinking.

.

That is an area that USAPA excells in!
 
New President starts soon.


HAAAAHHHAAAA!!!!!

Let's fill em in on the rest of the Story. The "new president" is temporary as the entire election must be RE-DONE. Why? USAPA improperly disallowed a WEST pilot from running for the position.

USAPA should just have a big DFR rubber stamp that they can slap on anything that moves.
 
Shouldn't the current president remain in charge till the election is properly re-run( not just a mono a mono runoff) to satisfy the DOL? Does Al Frankin get to go to Washington or does he have to wait till the case runs it course. The new USAPA president could impose their will on people that might not be reversible by the next president(like dumb lawsuits/RICO) that could cause huge legal bills.
 
Isn't it in the best interest of ALPA to keep the number from which they take 1.95% as high as possible? I mean if you think that they are that corrupt, why would they want to choke off their personal ATM?

Additionally, name an accomplishment that USAPA can take credit for. What has been provided in exchange for millions in dues money? Where's the promised value?

It's in ALPA's best interest to keep the dues coming in. They go with the philosophy that some dues are better than no dues. The entire airline industry should have been shut down when the pensions were threatened and 40 percent pay cuts were being imposed on us, but that would have stopped the dues temporarily. Instead ALPA tries to sell it to us like we are saving the airline. Meanwhile, the CEO's are walking away with millions.

This is the latest and greatest from ALPA:

Alaska Pilots’ TA Includes Work Rule Improvements and Protections

It is a propaganda machine that tries to spin everything in the positive. I have talked to two of my Alaskan buddies who both said the TA made them sick to their stomach. Then I read this from ALPA.
 
While that may be true, there is still the issue of just what will happen if the court rules in favor of the US Airways West pilot group. And yes, I think that is what is going to happen.

And she claimed 'inside sources' telling her ALPA won the election 'hands down'.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom