Why is the ATP written such a Joke?

[Goose Egg]

Maybe what I think is a salute is just them flashing a gang sign. You never know at some airports....

Lol!! Good call.

-Goose....er G.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I agree with what you're getting at, but then what do we do about the pilots who choose neither?

People usually conform the the environment and culture they work and live.

Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work.
-Lombardi


Public business, my son, must always be done by somebody. It will be done by somebody or another. If wise men decline it, others will not; if honest men refuse it, others will not.”
-Adams

"Posterity, you will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in heaven that ever I took half the pains to preserve it." -Adams

​

 

[timeless]

I don't want to sound like I'm disagreeing with your main point (because I'm totally not), but I have in my posession the FE (Fundamentals of Engineering, not Flight Engineer) Exam study guide. It's actually very similar to the ATP written test in terms of format (not content.) I can't speak for the CPA, Bar Exam, or medical boards. I understand the CPA comes in several parts. My dad has taken (and passed) it. I don't think that he has any desire to take it again.



That is awesome! I love that, and I may have to use it in my signature line. Unfortunately, I think the answer to the question is "no," and we've seen this proven over and over again.

It was actually the PE (professional engineer) and FE (fundamentals of engineering) Exams that made me realize that the ATP is a joke. Most of my family are engineers and they thought it was funny when I scheduled the ATP for friday and started studying on wednesday. I haven't taken the FE or the PE, but the study materials looked much more difficult than the ATP. The FE and PE questions and answers are also not published which seems to be a good idea when administering a test.

Good luck on the FE.

 

[avbug]

You're still in error to call the test a joke. However, in comparison to other locations, such as Europe, obtaining any pilot certificate in the US is a very simple endeavor.

Are you complaining that you got through your ATP so easily?

 

[NuGuy]

You're still in error to call the test a joke. However, in comparison to other locations, such as Europe, obtaining any pilot certificate in the US is a very simple endeavor.

Are you complaining that you got through your ATP so easily?

Heyas Avbug,

If I were king, I would swap around the part 135 mins for cargo with that of the CFI certificate.

250 hours to fly boxes, where the only person in jepoardy is the pilot.

1200 to teach another person, and hold his life in your hands, doesn't seem unreasonable.

Of course, I'll get flammed because I was a beneficiary of the system as it exists now, but change has to start somewhere.

I would endorse a more complex ATP academic requirement.

Nu

 

[LivestockTony]

250 hours to fly boxes, where the only person in jepoardy is the pilot.

1200 to teach another person, and hold his life in your hands, doesn't seem unreasonable.

I dunno... a 207 or single pilot 1900 filled with chemicals, radioactives, POLs, or biological hazmat could do an awful lot more damage than a CFI who gets behind his student....

-TF

 

[timeless]

Whenever I had biological hazmat, I assumed the worst and thought I was hauling HIV or Ebola.

Avbug, I'm not complaining about the ATP written being easy for me. My issue is that it is easy for everybody. If you are literate, english proficient and have some free time you will pass.

Good post above about the ability of some pilots succeed despite their incompetence. My company hired some of them in 2007, but now that hiring has slowed down we were able to replace some of them with quality pilots. The best and brightest usually aren't attracted to part 135 freight unless it's the only option.

 

[avbug]

I'm not complaining about the ATP written being easy for me. My issue is that it is easy for everybody. If you are literate, english proficient and have some free time you will pass.

Yes, you can breeze through nearly anything if you take the easy way out. If that's all your flying and career mean to you, then perhaps it is a joke to you.

Like I did with my mechanic tests, I spent a year preparing for the written (and it was a written, when I took it), and a year preparing for the practical.

I did the same for the mechanic tests...after a number of years of practical experience, I spent a year documenting the experience in detail, a year preparing for the writtens, and a year preparing for the practical.

Others take short courses and get it done quickly, and to them its probably a joke, just like your pilot certification is to you.

It's not that way for all of us, and some of us actually take it seriously. In the end, it's not the standard to which the FAA holds you, but the standard to which you hold yourself. I find that when I get in the cockpit with someone, the difference shows.

 

[timeless]

I at no point meant to insinuate that my pilot certification was a joke to me. I do hold myself to a high standard. My employer and the people I fly with can attest to that. I like flying turboprops full of freight and I have a thorough knowledge of all the regulatory and performance aspects relating to the kind of flying I do. I can squeeze every last mile of range out of a shorts and make sure I'm legal and safe while I'm doing it.

I definitely agree with your opinion of short courses. I administered myself a 5 day self study self taught CDL course which resulted in me earning a CDL. Later as my semi was going sideways down an icy road I was pretty sure I could have benefitted from some better training. I never put the truck in the ditch, but scared myself a couple of times. Despite a couple of rough days it was a great part time job while I was instructing. Given the economy I might be back in a truck before I know it.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

Just remember this important fact from the Flight Engineer written Test: Battery acid burns much like household Lye. Do not get it on your clothes.

 

[avbug]

Given the economy I might be back in a truck before I know it.

There but for the grace, go we all. Many of us are already there. Good luck.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I love the new avatar TA. :beer:

 

[ALIMBO]

You would amish lol

 

[Amish RakeFight]

You would amish lol

In what sense do you mean?

 

[tathepilot]

I love the new avatar TA. :beer:

Thanks!