Comair and Delta Furloughed Pilots

[tbkane]

Imacdog,

You are the problem with derogatory posts like that. We remember and specifically if you read my post we don't hold accountable those hired after the JC mess. Those that were there are to be held accountable but flaming the Delta pilots like you did annomonously takes a great amount of courage! The average line pilot so to speak was voting in Lawson and his cronies so they are to blame. If they didn't like what he was doing they could have had him removed from office but no one at Comair ever tried to have him unseated.

 

[PuffDriver]

The problem is it seems most Delta pilots are not intelligent enough to understand the difference between someone who was involved with the problems between the two pilot groups and the average line pilot including those who were hired well after all this took place. Really, all this emotional baggage can't be good for your health.

There is no emotional baggage. It's pretty simple, really. I really didn't care that they sued ALPA. I didn't care that they didn't want our furloughees either. When the lawsuit came out that attempted to end run my contract, I cared. I cared a lot. That is scab activity. You can look it up in ALPA's C&BL. ALPA gave the scabs forgiveness. I have not. Nor will I forgive and forget either. You don't see me running around harping about it, like my apparently now banned brother. We don't give it another thought, actually. Yet we won't forget either. A handful of ex-Comair pilots have gotten hired here, and none of them were captains.

Most of us don't feel the need to run around on FI, we take our battle where it counts. Most of us don't buy the "I wasn't a part of it" either. IF you weren't active, you were an enabler. You left these guys in power, and in some respects your actions are more deplorable.

I completely agree with TK, as do pretty much all Delta pilots.

That's the way it is.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff I only posted to affirm that acarpe is not the only one who remembers. We have all moved on but not forgotten. It is the major cause of bad blood between the two pilot groups, that and the RJDC but ASA was part of the RJDC and we don't hold them in ill regard.

I was completely agreeing with you. I didn't express it very well, but the bad blood is definitely reflected in the hiring since you have been with us--where it really matters as opposed to a pilot or two posting here. Poor communication skills on my part.

 

[imacdog]

There is no emotional baggage. It's pretty simple, really.

Oh please. Every time Comair announces cuts you smile inside, even though the pilots being cut were hired well after any bad-blood-incurring actions were being taken between the two pilot groups. You have lost touch with reality and are holding outsiders accountable for actions they had no part in. Comparing line pilots at Comair with scabs, that's a new one. See what I mean by your emotional baggage?

 

[rumorhasit]

What is scope?














.........................................long gone

:uzi: Shiny Jet Syndrome:smash:

Its what Regional pilots must use after dealing with management so they can keep their jobs!!!

 

[PuffDriver]

Oh please. Every time Comair announces cuts you smile inside, even though the pilots being cut were hired well after any bad-blood-incurring actions were being taken between the two pilot groups. You have lost touch with reality and are holding outsiders accountable for actions they had no part in. Comparing line pilots at Comair with scabs, that's a new one. See what I mean by your emotional baggage?

I am fully aware of who is paying the price, and it is regrettable. You need to go and visit those at Comair who are responsible and do your griping. Your bros did engage in scab activity as far as I am concerned--the official definition would be something in the neighborhood of attempting to circumvent another groups contractual language--and as far as Delta pilots are concerned. I would imagine that would have something to do with the almost total lack of Comair hiring in the past 1 1/2 years at Delta.

The is no loss of touch with reality, there is no emotional baggage. It is what it is. The few pilots from Comair hired, ironically, were the f/os with NO PIC time who were not around for the shennanigans.

Believe it, or not, I really don't care and won't give it another thought. Go cry to Joe Merchant or Mr. Ford. :crying: :crying: :crying:

 

[flyboyike]

The few pilots from Comair hired, ironically, were the f/os with NO PIC time who were not around for the shennanigans.

That's simply not the case. I've flown with three of our Captains who are now at Delta and I doubt if I'm the only one or if they were the only three.

 

[xjhawk]

stop revisiting the past. Put it behind you. Your hatred for one another is just another reminder how ineffective ALPA national is. I am not an ALPA hater, I rather like my MEC, but come on leave the past in the past and look towards the future.

 

[captainv]

A handful of ex-Comair pilots have gotten hired here, and none of them were captains.

Actually, 99% of the guys I know that have been hired were all captains. But yes, it's a handful, so in the end it doesn't matter.

I've been at CMR a little over 6 years. JC wrote his infamous letter three weeks after I started ground school. I thought it was a stupid move and said so. I supported Reps who wanted a change in the MEC leadership, but JC is (if nothing else) a skilled politician and quashed such attempts until he stepped down.

I flew corporate prior to the regionals and selected Comair based on growth and superior pay rates and work rules. I had no idea about the strike, the RJDC, or the history of bad blood with DAL pilots until I got there. If I could do it over, I would've gone to Chatauqua and upgraded in two years. (At CMR, it took 5.5 years to upgrade and I was downgraded after 6 months)

But regardless of your opinions, or mine, the damage has been done. We've lost half the airline in two years and the question isn't will we shrink more, but how much. 176 aircraft, down to 113 next year. Close to 1900 pilots, likely down to 1050 next year. (Not as much as DAL lost post 9/11, but a higher percentage of the overall pilot group) We've taken concessions, like most other DAL regionals, except we've never benefitted from them, unlike most DAL regionals.

In actuality, i think we're a victim of ALPA's success. Our industry-leading contract (for a time, anyway) prevented our senior pilots from wanting to leave. When the majors started hiring again, the exodus was mostly among junior captains. Although our pay rates are "competitve" now (that is, cheap), our very senior pilot group negates any cost savings. Mesaba, after their horrible trip through bankruptcy, supposedly has a pilot group where 50% of the seniority list has been there less than two years. And our FA costs are crazy high. Our girls make quite a bit more than mainline FAs, something they didn't address during bankruptcy.

Plus, we're the only DAL regional without a contract that says "Thou shalt fly xxx many hours", so we're the ones they can take airplanes from without financial penalty. And every time we furlough, it makes us more senior and thus more expensive.

So, I can understand why DAL guys have hard feelings toward us, especially tbkane. As I recall, he was the junior DAL furlough and served as furlough coordinator. So he knows better than anyone the pain his pilot group went through.

If by some miracle I upgrade again, get competitive and apply at DAL, but you guys reject me because of the stance JC took, so be it. Honestly though, getting blackballed by DAL is the least of my worries right now...

 

[imacdog]

Puff, the nice thing for me is I have no attachment to the Delta system anymore. You are the one that has to live with your decisions and loss of job security, not me. I was hired on at Comair several years after all this went down anyway. You probably still consider me a scab for having worked there at all though, and if it makes you feel better about yourself then I'm happy for you.

 

[tbkane]

Captain,

I was the last furloughed but no I was not a furlough coordinator, but thanks for kudos. I do know what a furlougee goes through and it was MORE difficult than divorce. I don't think anyone at Delta is happy about furloughs at any airline as we have had our fair share.

Imacdog, your flaming us just affirms the attitude against us from some rank and file at Comair. We never did understand it. I came from a sister regional and their was never the discourse between the two groups. Some at Comair continue with a chip on their shoulder against us and as rebuttal we don't forget how we were treated by Comair vs ASA.

 

[Monster Buck]

Puff, the nice thing for me is I have no attachment to the Delta system anymore. You are the one that has to live with your decisions and loss of job security, not me. I was hired on at Comair several years after all this went down anyway. You probably still consider me a scab for having worked there at all though, and if it makes you feel better about yourself then I'm happy for you.

Here is a piece of your own advice. You left the airlines, you made your decision, now live with it and move on......back to your corporate forums and LET GO! I know you can't stand it but you are NOT AN AIRLINE PILOT ANYMORE! The only reason you come on these AIRLINE forums is to flame. Funny, coming from a guy who couldn't cut it.

 

[Otto]

Give it a rest.

Imacdog,

we don't hold accountable those hired after the JC mess. Those that were there are to be held accountable...If they didn't like what he was doing they could have had him removed from office but no one at Comair ever tried to have him unseated.

Oh please...there were many such as myself who disagreed with the decision and said so but what do you expect...was I supposed to quit? Oh yeah, I'm sure as a six month FO on probation, my campaign to unseat JC would have been real successful. What happened has taken on a life larger than reality and both sides need to let it go. Here's some extra reading to help with that hostility:

http://www.webmd.com/news/20000421/anger-health-effects

 

[imacdog]

Here is a piece of your own advice. You left the airlines, you made your decision, now live with it and move on......back to your corporate forums and LET GO! I know you can't stand it but you are NOT AN AIRLINE PILOT ANYMORE! The only reason you come on these AIRLINE forums is to flame. Funny, coming from a guy who couldn't cut it.

Yo Bucky, I don't know how going to one of the strongest companies in aviation is considered "not cutting it" but thank you for your concern. I do still have friends at Comair though and I hope to see them succeed as well. That's why I have an interest in what is continuing to happen at Comair. Of course you certainly consider my friends to be scabs as well because they work at Comair and that's also okay. Granted they were also hired several years after this whole furlough/seniority number thing happened but never let rational thought get in the way of a Delta pilot and his ego.

 

[Monster Buck]

Yo Bucky, I don't know how going to one of the strongest companies in aviation is considered "not cutting it" but thank you for your concern. I do still have friends at Comair though and I hope to see them succeed as well. That's why I have an interest in what is continuing to happen at Comair. Of course you certainly consider my friends to be scabs as well because they work at Comair and that's also okay. Granted they were also hired several years after this whole furlough/seniority number thing happened but never let rational thought get in the way of a Delta pilot and his ego.

Funny, with all your insight and pride yet you don't like telling people where you work. Probably because it would deflate the value of your opinion on all the boards you take your knowledge to. BTW...it took about 30 seconds with a search engine to find out you left Comair in the last few years to fly at NetJets. Funny on the other board you claim a manufacturing co out of south bend. Identity crisis?