Future President and Corp. Aviation

[HawkerF/O]

Regardless of who is eating up the supply of oil, we have not done a single thing in this country to remove our dependence on foreign oil. Imagine what we could do with the $700 billion dollars that has left our country.

I think he is going to become more of that moderate Republican we were used to seeing, but he needed to shore up the base at the convention. :beer:

Ashton Kutcher, come out! Where are you, because I know we are being punked by 54fighting.

54, please; Imagine what we could do with the 1 TRILLION dollars we have wasted on Iraq. Has that crossed your mind? What are we even doing in Iraq? Don't give me some line about getting rid of a horrible dictator; there are MANY leaders out there worse than Hitler, much less Saddam, and we have let them go on with business as usual. Bob Mugabee in Zimbobwe (sp?) is one example.

What makes you think McCain is going to do as you say? Do you remember a compassionate conservative running for office in Y2k? I do, and look at where he has gotten us. Tell both sides of the story, not just the slant and spin.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Obama on the other hand is a different story. If, and a big if here, he is allowed by Congress to imposes the high increases of tax rates on companies and corporations we could very well see some drastic cut backs in corporate flight departments.

What needs to be remembered is that the President, no matter who is President, cannot change taxation, up or down, only Congress can do that. The same hold true with user fees, again only Congress has that power.

Personal guess, as long as the economy stays stable we will not see much in the way of change.

NO, NO, NO. Congress does nothing more than make reccomendations to the president. If the president approves of the request (whether or not it is initiated by the White House), then he signs the bill and it becomes law. Checks and Balances, Mr. Civics. You say the president does not control taxation?
Read my Lips, No New taxes. Are you old enough to remember that? It's a promise George H.W. Bush made in 1988 to voters who went on to elect him. Guess what, Because of the trickle down effect of Reaganomics, he was forced to raise taxes (Congress Ok'd it and he signed the tax bill into law), thus opening the door for those same voters to elect his A$$ right our of office and let Bill Clinton in. Wasn't his fault; the Reagan Admin did not let him know how bad the deficit (budget) was, so he made somewhat of a blind promise he otherwise would not have made had Reagan been honest with him, his own VP!

Good thing that happened. Congress does not have near the power you say. Please reasearch your statements before you get on here essentially lying and misleading people who might not keep up with the stuff as well as you and I do.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Personal guess, as long as the economy stays stable we will not see much in the way of change.

Oh yea, the economy is Tip Top! There are from Today's News Wire.

U.S. unemployment rate hits a five-year high
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26558445/

U.S. Economy Remains Weak, Fed Finds
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...8/09/03/AR2008090301939.html?nav=rss_business

U.S. takeover set for mortgage giants
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080906/ap_on_bi_ge/mortgage_giants_crisis

 

[HawkerF/O]

Plain and simple for me. I fly for a wealthy individual. When Oboma jacks all of our taxes through the roof and those of the small business's he owns, I may be in trouble.

NObama No way!

I am getting so sick and tired of these lies. People really can't be this stupid. Uninformed and simple people make themselves look as foolish as they are. I am not some Obama fan, but don't lie about what he has proposed.

Obama plan is as follows: He is not going to RENEW the tax breaks GW gave the weathisest 5% of Americans. If you call that 'jacking all of our taxes through the roof', then you need to pick up a newspaper and turn off faux news. You need to make $260K for you to even notice this happeneing. 400A, how the hell have you missed this fact? How? How on earth could you miss that fact? You don't make 260k; I know you dont. Why do you keep telling these lies? I am sick of it and I am not going to bite my lip anymore when you get on here speaking on subjects that clearly exceed the scope of your knowledge. Why do you do that?

While we all got 300 dollar checks, the richest 5% of americans got tax breaks. When you look at their Net pay, then give them a reduction of tax liability on that Net pay, with the dollar amounts the richest 5% make, the reduction percentage of that Net pay makes for one hell of a Gross takehome pay.

Had you actually read or listened to the facts, you would know you personally will not be affected by that tax cut expiring; for that matter, neither of us will. Let be honest here, neither of us or anyone we know except the people we fly for, will even notice the tax cuts not being renewed.

What that means is that they'll (the rich) go back to paying the same tax rates they paid when they were making money hand over fist when Bill Clinton was in office.

I fly a G450 in your same situation; flying for a wealthy individual. I know I make more money than you, fly more expensive equipment than you, have higher operating costs than you (direct and indirect), and have a larger annual budget than you, and our organization is not the least bit worried; if yours is, then they simply cannot afford the upgrade they just made from a "Hawker 400XP" to a 750. I suspect your organization does not share your same views on the economics of jet ops in an Obama presidency. If so, I guess a low time 750 is going on the market if he is elected and you and the other crew will be made available to industry?

 

[corpjock]

McCain has ( FOG) FIIENDS OF GEORGE!!!!!!!!



GO OBAMA!!!!!

 

[54fighting]

HawkerFO, not spinning anything just asked a pretty relevant question. I didn't make anything personal out of my posts but you seem to have an issue with it because I have an alternative view of yours.

Because we have different views and do not support Obama we are uneducated on the subject. Instead of answering what is the true impact on small businesses here in the US will be, you go off about the war which I never even brought up and you have no clue what my opinion is on it! Nor do you have any clue as to my current or past association with the military.

So I am assuming you find that it is perfectly fine to send 700 billion dollars to foreign countries when we can be doing something here to set up a "bridge" to get off foreign dependence since you refused to answer it.

I have been to both candidates sites and have been trying to digest all of the "look what I will do for you, just elect me" information. All I am looking for is some healthy debate. As I told Aero Boy in an earlier post, I respect his view even though we disagree and he didn't need to make a smart a$$ remark to start off his reply to me.

And in following your advice, “Tell both sides of the story, not just the slant and spin.” you may have wanted to include this little snippet as well that was just released at the end of August, it would have lended much more credit to your fair and balanced reporting.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/5971450.html

Am I excited about this, no not really. I don’t think we are anywhere out of the woods and we have a lot of hard work in front of us. But it was growth.

Also, here are the average unemployment rates for the last 4 presidents. For current Bush and Clinton I used 7 years since Bush is only in his 7th year right now.

5.19 Bush
5.38 Clinton
6.3 Bush 1
7.83 Reagan

http://www.miseryindex.us/URbyyear.asp

 

[400A]

Just like Obama, Hawker F/O always reverts to personal attacks and name calling to get his point across. Because he yells and screams he is sure to be smarter than me.

Inheritance Taxes? (will hit me in the next 10 years)

Capital Gains Taxes? (will hit me in the next 10 years)

In my opinion, if someone is going to be in charge of the military, he needs to be at least remotely familiar with the military. Doing drugs in Law school did not qualify him for this in my opinion. You are welcome to your own and I will not yell and scream and tell you how wrong you are.


OK Hawker F/O, take another hit, and go to yelling and screaming again.

 

[Tgaug6300]

Very good debate guys. Both sides bring up very good arguements.

 

[HawkerF/O]

So I am assuming you find that it is perfectly fine to send 700 billion dollars to foreign countries when we can be doing something here to set up a "bridge" to get off foreign dependence since you refused to answer it.

54, this is exactly my point. You keep bringing up this 700 Billion, but then when I bring up the 1 Trillion we have spent in Iraq, you simply choose to ignore it. 1 Trillion is well over 10 times the 700 Billion you keep talking about. If you are so passionate about the 700B, how can you just ignore the 1Trillion? Why are you not appalled about the wasted 1 Trillion?

 

[54fighting]

Ok, so you agree that $700B is fine to go to other governments. I don't agree with that at all.
You need to get off your war cry, it is what it is, but I supose that is what your platform reverts to when they do not wan't address questions that they either have no valid plan or are uncomfortable answering.

No, I do not like having to fund this war as a civilian or as a former military officer. But you know what, we are in it. I am not going to support cutting off funding for my fellow soldiers who I have served with. This is what your candidate and democrats wanted to do. God, he couldn't even admit he was wrong to Bill O'Reilly when pressed about the surge. There were other battles to be fought rather than going back in a second time, but I will not turn my back on our Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen.

But make no mistake I want us out of there as quickly as possible.

So there you have my opinion on it, now you don't have to assume what it is.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Inheritance Taxes? (will hit me in the next 10 years)

Prior to the estate tax reduction Bush signed into law, estates were taxed at rates beginning at 37 percent and going as high as 55 percent. Generally, the estate tax only applied to assets exceeding $1 million. That's going to hit you 400A? My ass. I wouldn't bank on the boss willing you 1M for your years of hard work and dedication. Once again, here we are speaking on another subject, and you still don't know what the hell you are talking about. This is laughable.

Capital Gains Taxes? (will hit me in the next 10 years)

Even IF it goes back to 20% like it was before 2003, so what? It's 1/5th. Homes sales are and will continue to be exempt, so pay your 20%, up from 15%.

In my opinion, if someone is going to be in charge of the military, he needs to be at least remotely familiar with the military. Doing drugs in Law school did not qualify him for this in my opinion. You are welcome to your own and I will not yell and scream and tell you how wrong you are.

Really? Like Sarah Palin? She is #2 behind a 72 year old cancer patient. The possibility of her commanding the armed forces is great if McCain is elected. Please list her Military experience. National Guard commander you say? Great, name me 1 instance where she used/commanded the National Guard. I'll save you the trouble; you'll be unable to find an instance. So please explain What experience she has in terms of the military. Getting boned down by G.I.s when she was Sassin' around in beauty pagents in the 80s does not count.

 

[fob727]

Read Obomination's second book.

 

[54fighting]

National Guard commander you say? Great, name me 1 instance where she used/commanded the National Guard. I'll save you the trouble; you'll be unable to find an instance.

Hurricane Gustav, next question.

This is getting really tiring listening to accusations and personal atacks without facts to back them up. If I were you I would research what exactly a State National Guard unit does and who commands the coordintation between the local and federal levels. I've been to a few in my time.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Ok, so you agree that $700B is fine to go to other governments. I don't agree with that at all.
You need to get off your war cry, it is what it is, but I supose that is what your platform reverts to when they do not wan't address questions that they either have no valid plan or are uncomfortable answering.

No, I do not like having to fund this war as a civilian or as a former military officer. But you know what, we are in it. I am not going to support cutting off funding for my fellow soldiers who I have served with. This is what your candidate and democrats wanted to do. God, he couldn't even admit he was wrong to Bill O'Reilly when pressed about the surge. There were other battles to be fought rather than going back in a second time, but I will not turn my back on our Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen.

54, here we go again. You are focusing on this 700B. Why? Is that your only retort? No, I am not a fan of sending 700B over to foreign countries, but that is a drop in the hat compared to the job that have been sent to those same countries over the past 6 years. Where is your outrage at that? While I don't like 700B+ going overseas, like you say, it is what it is, but the jobs that have gone overseas is worse than that. The loss or revenue on tax rolls, unemployment going through the roof as a result, and the strain that puts on public services is something I have not heard you talk about. 700B is going to keep going to these other countries no matter who is in office, but you have to do those types of things in order to make things easier for our people in other parts of the world, for example, using foreign airspace for military planes that would normally be off limits.

So, they Dems and Obama wanted to cut off funding and leave the troops over there with no money? No, they wanted to stop funding the war, thus bringing the troops HOME. You talk as though they wanted to keep the troops over there and not fund them while telling them they still had to fight. No, they wanted to troops to come home. How is bringing the troops home turning your back on them? Tell me how.

As for the Surge, let's get tunnel vision and look at it like that, as you do. The Surge has NOT worked. The green zone is now gone in Iraq because it is so safe due to the surge? People just walk around Iraq and they are safe? NO, of course not. Once again, thousands of troops have been killed, we've spent 1 Trillion, which is enough to repave every road and bridge in this country, rebuild every school in this country, give every American and illegal unrestricted health care, and now the sh!t is back to shoe level over there, so yes, if you look at it like that, I guess to you that is worth the trade off and the surge worked. In my opinion, none of that was worth the death of even one soilder, let alone 4000+, so no, I don't think it did work, but if the death of your fellow soliders for this war was worth it to you, then yes, the surge worked.

But make no mistake I want us out of there as quickly as possible.

No you don't. You want the troops to stay over there getting crippled, disfigured and killed just so you can say the surge worked. Your own words say it. You don't want them home, you want them over there getting killed so you can say they are over there fighting and dying for their country, which is such a crock. McCain was passionately against the G.I. Bill because it allowed the troops to better themselves. Do you reemmber that? He said he didn't want the troops getting 1st class educations then running off to the private sector. That was 2 months ago. Do you remember that? So tell me now who is turning their backs on the troops. He wants to hold the troops back, he said that himself. Is that what a patriot does? Is it 54?

 

[54fighting]

You want the troops to stay over there getting crippled, disfigured and killed just so you can say the surge worked. Your own words say it. You don't want them home, you want them over there getting killed so you can say they are over there fighting and dying for their country, which is such a crock

Well, your true colors show. Don't you for one minute try and twist my words. Walk in a military person's shoes before you make comments about how we want to see our fellow soldiers die over there. That is the most offensive comment I have seen on this board. Search my posts, I have never talked or bragged about my service to my country. It was a personal decision for me.

You haven't answered one of my questions, I provide links to my assertions, you only bash me personally.

I'm done trying to act civil with you and carry on a facts only healthy debate.


Have a great Liberal day!

 

[HawkerF/O]

What are you talking about? I was unaware Alaska was hit by Hurricane Gustav. When did this happen. I have been unable to find any report or Gustav coming up from the Gulf, then Hitting Alaska so Palin could command the national guard. Are you really going to say Gustav when asked about Palin commanding the National Guard? After that great answer, You are exactly who I thought I was dealing with.

I am getting tired of people getting on here saying 1 thing, then when called on it, they start talking about something else or give some explanation that has nothing to do with the question at hand.

Hurricane Gustav, next question.

This is getting really tiring listening to accusations and personal atacks without facts to back them up. If I were you I would research what exactly a State National Guard unit does and who commands the coordintation between the local and federal levels. I've been to a few in my time.

 

[Tgaug6300]

I will say this, Palin will be one of the only politicians I can think of in recent times that has a direct personal intrest in the war in Iraq. Her son will be deploying over there. Usually politicians are sending someone elses sons and daughters over.

 

[400A]

Prior to the estate tax reduction Bush signed into law, estates were taxed at rates beginning at 37 percent and going as high as 55 percent. Generally, the estate tax only applied to assets exceeding $1 million. That's going to hit you 400A? My ass. I wouldn't bank on the boss willing you 1M for your years of hard work and dedication. Once again, here we are speaking on another subject, and you still don't know what the hell you are talking about. This is laughable.



Even IF it goes back to 20% like it was before 2003, so what? It's 1/5th. Homes sales are and will continue to be exempt, so pay your 20%, up from 15%.

Really? Like Sarah Palin? She is #2 behind a 72 year old cancer patient. The possibility of her commanding the armed forces is great if McCain is elected. Please list her Military experience. National Guard commander you say? Great, name me 1 instance where she used/commanded the National Guard. I'll save you the trouble; you'll be unable to find an instance. So please explain What experience she has in terms of the military. Getting boned down by G.I.s when she was Sassin' around in beauty pagents in the 80s does not count.

Dear Richard Cranium.

Having nothing to do with my boss, yes the tax will hit me. What do you know about me, my family, my assets or my income. You say the inheritance tax will not hit me. Please give me your source. You say you make more than me. State your source. Come on Jerk, tell me! You are just a loud mouth know-it-all and I have just about had enough of your childish personal attacks. You are an idiot. Just like Obama!

Palin scares the crap out of most the Obama supporters....obviously you as well!

 

[bizjet800]

If the democrats win the election, we will die a quick death, if the republicans win, we will die a slower death! IT'S THAT SIMPLE. There is no free lunch people! That piddly little $300 stimulus check WAS a tax! It was a $300 loan to ourselves…we’re going to have to pay it back at some point! Any one who has a brain can't honestly say there is a real difference in either party. Democrats USED to be for labor and the republicans USED to be for big business, but those days are over and likely gone forever! As for taxes, the republicans say they will cut taxes. Well? What do you think massive deficit spending IS? A tax is a tax by any other name!

Me? I am voting Libertarian! If you listen to Barr, (he gets some airtime on CNN) he has some real ideas that can actually solve problems. See that’s the problem in this country—our leaders are not interested in solving problems—they are only interested in treating symptoms! Don’t believe me? Let’s chat in 4 or 8 years. We’re only beginning to scratch the surface of our corrupt leaders. Your vote for Obama or McCain will only perpetuate the problem and it will be business as usual!!

 

[HawkerF/O]

Dear Richard Cranium.

Having nothing to do with my boss, yes the tax will hit me. What do you know about me, my family, my assets or my income. You say the inheritance tax will not hit me. Please give me your source. You say you make more than me. State your source. Come on Jerk, tell me! You are just a loud mouth know-it-all and I have just about had enough of your childish personal attacks. You are an idiot. Just like Obama!

Palin scares the crap out of most the Obama supporters....obviously you as well!

Typical. 1st, the tax will infact NOT hit you, so don't say again. You will not be affected, we both know that, so quit trying to get on here like you roll 1M style, cause you don't. Next: I am a jerk now because I do not see things your way, then I call you out on your lies, "Obama will tax us through the roof", and then you get checked by me everytime you try to come on here and rationalize those lies. I am simply not going to put up with it. If you came on here and told these same lies about John McCain, I would correct you just as sharply. It not about who I want to see win, it's about having a forum with thousands of other people reading information that is simply not true. What you have written in the past is a damn lie, and I am not going to let you do it anymore, so I suggest you govern yourself accordingly or I'll be there to do it for you. Keep the lies off this forum when it comes to politickin' and especially economics.

Finally, I am not voting for Obama. I want to see McCain win so HRC can run again in '12 and fix this mess we got ourselves into in 2000.

Palin scares Obama supporters? Please.

*Former mayor of Wisilla, AK, population less than 7,000, then Governor of AK, elected simply because of the low approval ratings of the incumbant.

*Her unmarried daughter is 17 and knocked up; excellent household management there, Gov. She better not utter a word about family values.

*Gave birth to a DOWNS baby and goes back to work 3 days later. Once again, excellent judgement and decision making skills, Mayor

*She has no executive experience to speak of; Making sure the liquor stores don't close in the State she governs so people's way of life don't change does not count as Executive Experience.

*She is currently under investigation for abusing her power. Let's see, the Public Safety department director would not FIRE her former state trooper brother-in-law who divorced her sister, so Gov fired the Director. Smart GOV, really smart. BOOHOOOOOO. Your sister got dumped, and now you want to fire the guy to ditched her. Tough Sh!t, that's life. BOOHOOOOOBOOHOOO.