NPA caves again!

[BR715]

Letter of agreement has been signed allowing the company to retain the old retired crusty eastern guys in the training department. In return the union representing the pilots of Airtran were able to get the 177 probationary pilots originally getting fired by the company recall rights. In other words they are just getting furloughed now. Horrible to see that we got nothing for the letter of agreement. Another LOA when we are going on 4 years without a contract. The recall petition is being passed around only 90 signatures needed. I am sick of the NPA. FRIGGIN SICK

 

[becket]

When you see how effective USAPA will be, you'll be falling in love with the NPA. Things are never so bad that they can't get worse, (usapa)

 

[Wesb737fo]

Letter of agreement has been signed allowing the company to retain the old retired crusty eastern guys in the training department. In return the union representing the pilots of Airtran were able to get the 177 probationary pilots originally getting fired by the company recall rights. In other words they are just getting furloughed now. Horrible to see that we got nothing for the letter of agreement. Another LOA when we are going on 4 years without a contract. The recall petition is being passed around only 90 signatures needed. I am sick of the NPA. FRIGGIN SICK

Let me get this straight. We just recalled and elected new leadership, a new negotiating team that has just gotten started (during times that aren't exactly ideal for negotiating) and you want to recall them over this? I have to question your motives at this point. Do you have friends that were recalled or just not elected? I'm not a fan of the tactics of management, but recall petition...get serious.

 

[Grybrd]

The recall petition is being passed around only 90 signatures needed.

It's not a recall petition.

 

[Lear70]

I think he misspoke. I havent' actually heard of a "recall" petition, but the MemRat petition is going to have the required signatures within a week. The number of people signing up for it in the crew room has tripled in the last 24 hours. Would love to see it presented with almost double the number of required signatures.

I'm betting money the company will start pushing hard for as many LOA's as they can get in the next 30 days while the MemRat petition is brought to the Board, then put for membership vote. Don't be surprised to see another LOA or two in the near future...

 

[Wesb737fo]

It's not a recall petition.

Sorry BR.....I guess I misunderstood. MemRat....Where do I sign up?

 

[fam62c]

Letter of agreement has been signed allowing the company to retain the old retired crusty eastern guys in the training department. In return the union representing the pilots of Airtran were able to get the 177 probationary pilots originally getting fired by the company recall rights. In other words they are just getting furloughed now. Horrible to see that we got nothing for the letter of agreement. Another LOA when we are going on 4 years without a contract. The recall petition is being passed around only 90 signatures needed. I am sick of the NPA. FRIGGIN SICK

Would it have been better to have 177 guys fired and never be able to come back? Let's face it, the industry is in a tough environment where pilots are a dime-a-dozen so it really doesn't matter what union you have representing you. Management holds all the cards and that's how it's going to be until the industry is stabilized, profitable and the supply of loose pilots has dried up. You're only chance to have any leverage would be to be released by the NMB and that's not going to happen under the current administration. Even if it did, what could you do......shut down a money losing airline during a recession with record fuel prices and force a liquidation?

Pilots are action oriented people and have trouble understanding that sometimes you don't have any leverage and you must avoid the fight until the battlefield is more level. You must have the patience of a saint grasshopper; for everything there is a time.

 

[Lear70]

Sorry BR.....I guess I misunderstood. MemRat....Where do I sign up?

email me: [email protected]

I'd PM you the info but my PM box is full right now, trying to delete stuff without deleting contacts. 5 years of Flightinfo has left me a lot of contacts...

 

[Lear70]

Even if it did, what could you do......shut down a money losing airline during a recession with record fuel prices and force a liquidation?

AirTran made a public financial statement that they have, at the end of the 2nd quarter, more cash on hand than they have ever had before...

Bad 1st quarter? sure. Bad year? Not if oil keeps coming down and loads stay where they are... it won't be fantastic, but things are not as bad as they seem...

Pilots are action oriented people and have trouble understanding that sometimes you don't have any leverage and you must avoid the fight until the battlefield is more level. You must have the patience of a saint grasshopper; for everything there is a time.

The problem is that the LOA didn't get us most of what the NPA leadership SAID they'd have to have, such as:

1. REQUIRE the company to give Leaves of Absence. The language still says "may".

2. REQUIRE the company to offer early retirements with benefits. Nada.

3. REQUIRE the company to never be able to do this again - hold probie pilots hostage. It only says "pilots CURRENTLY on the seniority list". When AAI hires again, they can do this all over again.

It just "furloughed" them to protect the NSLI's, which is all the company originally said they want. It allows them to keep COBRA throughout their furlough (whoopee, I can get a cheaper policy on my own than Cobra), and allows them to retain pass privileges (one of the FEW things this did, which was free to the company anyway).

It did give the ability for pilots to bid a "zero time line" IF the company offers them and those lines are just basically you taking a month or two off without pay but keeping your pass privileges and health insurance. Not too many people can afford to just not work a month.

It also gave the ability for Captains to bid down into an F/O position. For instance, if a junior lineholding CA realizes he's about to be on reserve, he can voluntarily bid over to be an F/O if he wants to stay off reserve, becoming a very senior F/O with the lines he can bid in that seniority.

This ability ONLY applies within your own fleet type; you cannot bid down into another aircraft (saved the company the training cost).

It also required that any NEW instructor positions be filled by furloughees. How many instructors have left? Not many...

Was it worth it? You decide. Personally, I still have heartburn with any LOA's while contract hostages are still out, especially ones that protect *SOME* pilots who were about to be held hostage but not others. Smacks of discriminatory practice...

 

[Freight Dog]

Lear, how's your case going? Did you get to go back yet?

 

[BR715]

<P>I did give you false info on the recall sorry!  I meant memrat</P>

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sounds like some don't understand The Peanut Butter Jar Principle of Management...

 

[Lear70]

Lear, how's your case going? Did you get to go back yet?

HA!

The company is violating the RLA by violating established past practice and has placed the other terminated pilot "hostage" and myself at the BACK of the list of ALL grievances.

Historically, the company has always allowed termination grievances to go to the "head of the line", since they were so crucial to people's lives. Now, they say "Nope, we have to hear all the others first".

We hear about 30 grievances per quarter I believe. There's over 120 outstanding before ours. For items such as $20 bucks in pay, etc. That means we're both looking at ANOTHER YEAR on the street, even if they fast-track or settle double the usual amount of grievances, as an arbitrator can take 90-180 days to give a ruling AFTER your case is heard.

Without the Union saying "NO MORE LOA'S UNTIL ALL HOSTAGES ARE RETURNED", we're going to be out for a loonnnnngggg time still.

Sounds like some don't understand The Peanut Butter Jar Principle of Management...

OK, I'll bite...?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

OK, I'll bite...?

Its simple and effective....

The Peanut Butter Jar Principle of Management.

At the college I attended, more than 20 years ago now, we dined in a huge build
ing—all 4,000 plus of us at once. Seating arrangements were 10 per table with a mix
of all classes at each table. The seniors sat at the head of the table and the freshmen sat at the end. The peanut butter jars, of course, were somewhere in the middle. We all liked the peanut butter jars—especially a new untouched one. The first person to delve into a “virgin” jar often did so with some ceremony. One day we arrived at lunch to discover the peanut butter jars were gone—replaced by little peanut butter packets. We were not happy. A form was filled out by the freshmen at each meal. After checking the usual boxes— Fast, Neat, Average, Friendly, Good—they would inquire if any upperclassmen had any comments for the form. “We want the peanut butter jars back!” we screamed. Word quickly spread through the 400 plus tables and the write-in campaign was on. Three meals per day, over a thousand forms each day going in to whomever read them, demanding the return of the peanut butter jars. About a month and 30,000 forms later, we arrived at lunch and, while milling around the tables prior to the announcements that proceeded our dining, we noticed THE JARS WERE BACK!


The crescendo of conversational noise in the huge hall was appreciably louder than normal as people took notice. We fell silent as the announcements from “the tower” began. The final announcement, appropriately, was simply “…and gentlemen, the peanut butter jars have
returned!” PANDEMONIUM! Four thousand guys celebrating like we’d just beaten Army and Navy in football on the same afternoon.



Except for one guy. Standing to my left was Dave T., one class senior to me. Dave had this little grin on his face as he sadly shook his head while observing the raucous behavior of the student body. “What’s wrong with you?” I asked. His reply was something I’d never forget. “Look at everybody…so happy…yet we don’t have one thing we didn’t have a month ago.”

Dave, for some irrational reason, later chose to be an officer in the Marines, but I’ll never
forget him as the author of what I later dubbed “The Peanut Butter Jar Principle of Management.” The concept is simple. If you want to raise the morale of the workforce you don’t necessarily have to give them anything. Merely taking something away and reinstating it later will have the same effect.

Slightly different in the case here... however, the principal is the same...

 

[Ty Webb]

Leave it to Rez to use 5 paragraphs to say something that could be summed up in a sentence or two.