NWA/Delta new Agreement. Mesaba?

[RiddleEagle18]

In NWA/Delta's new joint working agreement it gives Flowup/back to mesaba and Compass to the delta pilots as well. I know compass is represented by the NWA MEC but were the Mesaba pilots invited into these negotiations??

Also Alot of talk at Comair about merging with Mesaba after the NWA/Delta merger is official. Have you guys been hearing anything?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

They were when they negotiated the flowup/down.

 

[Terry Hunter]

The only thing I've heard consistently is MESA SUCKS..

 

[RiddleEagle18]

They were when they negotiated the flowup/down.

They negotiated it with NWA MEC. The new proposal is with both NWA and delta.

 

[saabtrash]

As long as it stays the same...i.e. The flowback is limited to the amount that flow up, then it shouldn't be a problem. There will be @8 NW/DL pilots offered jobs at Mesaba.

 

[CFI2766]

As long as it stays the same...i.e. The flowback is limited to the amount that flow up, then it shouldn't be a problem. There will be @8 NW/DL pilots offered jobs at Mesaba.

I don't have the full copy of the TA, but it doesn't appear that that will be the case. I read it to mean that all of the Compass/Mesaba jobs are there for the taking should a mainline guy want to in the event of a furlough. As well, the mainline guys furloughed can displace the junior Compass/Mesaba guys.

Another point to ponder: Will the Compass/Mesaba guys be given preferential hiring at new Delta when the time comes?

If so, this reallllly doesn't sit well with me, as an ASA pilot.

 

[Mel Sharples]

I don't have the full copy of the TA, but it doesn't appear that that will be the case. I read it to mean that all of the Compass/Mesaba jobs are there for the taking should a mainline guy want to in the event of a furlough. As well, the mainline guys furloughed can displace the junior Compass/Mesaba guys.

Another point to ponder: Will the Compass/Mesaba guys be given preferential hiring at new Delta when the time comes?

If so, this reallllly doesn't sit well with me, as an ASA pilot.

The flow hasn't changed for Mesaba. The amount that can flow back is equal to the amount that flowed up. There can't be any total flush at Mesaba. (Compass is different.)

There is no preferential hiring for Compass or Mesaba but the flowthrough will still exist.

As I understand it, the way it was written allows them to add other regionals to the program so don't freak out just yet. I'm sure they can and will add ASA at some point, being ALPA and all.

 

[Flybet3]

I

If so, this reallllly doesn't sit well with me, as an ASA pilot.

:crying:

 

[DYLIN]

I don't have the full copy of the TA, but it doesn't appear that that will be the case. I read it to mean that all of the Compass/Mesaba jobs are there for the taking should a mainline guy want to in the event of a furlough. As well, the mainline guys furloughed can displace the junior Compass/Mesaba guys.

Another point to ponder: Will the Compass/Mesaba guys be given preferential hiring at new Delta when the time comes?

If so, this reallllly doesn't sit well with me, as an ASA pilot.

The pilots that take a risk of being flowed back to the street should not get a flow-through agreement?

 

[Hollywood82]

I don't have the full copy of the TA, but it doesn't appear that that will be the case. I read it to mean that all of the Compass/Mesaba jobs are there for the taking should a mainline guy want to in the event of a furlough. As well, the mainline guys furloughed can displace the junior Compass/Mesaba guys.

Another point to ponder: Will the Compass/Mesaba guys be given preferential hiring at new Delta when the time comes?

If so, this reallllly doesn't sit well with me, as an ASA pilot.

ASA - no flow back, then no flow through. I thought it was fair.

Maybe you could get "preferential hiring" at SkyWest.

 

[Quack]

I don't have the full copy of the TA, but it doesn't appear that that will be the case. I read it to mean that all of the Compass/Mesaba jobs are there for the taking should a mainline guy want to in the event of a furlough. As well, the mainline guys furloughed can displace the junior Compass/Mesaba guys.

Another point to ponder: Will the Compass/Mesaba guys be given preferential hiring at new Delta when the time comes?

If so, this reallllly doesn't sit well with me, as an ASA pilot.

Flow up or Flow down, easy as that.

 

[MJ42]

Flow up or Flow down, easy as that.

Not really. I believe you will see NWA pilots push to get Compass added to the bottom of the list. Mesaba's flow will continue until the next contract. For the near term there will be no flow up because DAL will not need to hire for the foreseeable future. If NWA is not successful in adding Compass to the list, you may see a flow down which will be bad if you're on the bottom at CPZ(bottom of CPZ list is risky any way this turns out).

DAL has never really liked flow deals, they've always liked to screen and hand pick who they hire more than any other airline. I think the college degree requirement will still stand, which is one reason flow will not. DAL has always required a degree and although NWA did not, everyone interviewed and hired at NWA since hiring started last year had a college degree... coincidence???

Anything can happen, but these are the rumblings I've heard.

 

[ttuite]

The flow hasn't changed for Mesaba. The amount that can flow back is equal to the amount that flowed up. There can't be any total flush at Mesaba. (Compass is different.)

There is no preferential hiring for Compass or Mesaba but the flowthrough will still exist.

As I understand it, the way it was written allows them to add other regionals to the program so don't freak out just yet. I'm sure they can and will add ASA at some point, being ALPA and all.

Where are you reading that Compass and Mesaba do not have preferential hiring? What I have read is that the preferential interview section only covers commuters that want to do business with DAL on the 70 seat jets. The Compass and Mesaba agreements are separate and remain in effect as per the NWA agreement. If I am reading this wrong please correct me as it is a concern.

 

[CptMurf]

DAL has never really liked flow deals, they've always liked to screen and hand pick who they hire more than any other airline. I think the college degree requirement will still stand, which is one reason flow will not. DAL has always required a degree and although NWA did not, everyone interviewed and hired at NWA since hiring started last year had a college degree... coincidence???

Are you implying that the pilots of Mesaba or Compass do not have degrees?

In my nine years at Mesaba I have only flown with one person that did not have a degree, but even he was working on one through online courses. I cannot say the same for NWA mainline. I know quite a few without a degree. If DAL covets this so much, will they (NWA pilots) not be able to merge? *sarcasm*

 

[DYLIN]

Not really. I believe you will see NWA pilots push to get Compass added to the bottom of the list. Mesaba's flow will continue until the next contract. For the near term there will be no flow up because DAL will not need to hire for the foreseeable future. If NWA is not successful in adding Compass to the list, you may see a flow down which will be bad if you're on the bottom at CPZ(bottom of CPZ list is risky any way this turns out).

Push as hard as you possibly can to get Compass stapled to the bottom of the list. Those jobs should have never left mainline and getting them back is a HUGE step in the right direction in the long-term.

 

[MJ42]

Are you implying that the pilots of Mesaba or Compass do not have degrees?

In my nine years at Mesaba I have only flown with one person that did not have a degree, but even he was working on one through online courses. I cannot say the same for NWA mainline. I know quite a few without a degree. If DAL covets this so much, will they (NWA pilots) not be able to merge? *sarcasm*

That wasn't what I was saying. I think DAL will keep their hiring practices in place. Also, ALL the pilots hired by NWA, since hiring started last year, have college degrees.

As to you flying with pilots at Mesaba who have degrees...I know, for a FACT, that a few years ago mesaba had come to several flight schools and hired numerous pilots of only which only a couple had degrees(PM me if you want to know how I know that). That doesn't mean that's a representative sample of pilots at Mesaba, but I'm sure they were hiring 300 hours wonders without degrees while they were desperate for pilots. I don't want this to be twisted by someone saying I think pilots without degrees are not quality pilots, I just think DAL will continue with their hiring requirements when the new DAL resumes hiring...that's all.

As to your comment about NWA pilots without degrees...like your experience at Mesaba, I can comment on NWA. I have not flown with a DC-9 CA yet who was not a college grad. I'm sure we have our share, but I think a majority have degrees.

 

[Flybet3]

That wasn't what I was saying. I think DAL will keep their hiring practices in place. Also, ALL the pilots hired by NWA, since hiring started last year, have college degrees.

As to you flying with pilots at Mesaba who have degrees...I know, for a FACT, that a few years ago mesaba had come to several flight schools and hired numerous pilots of only which only a couple had degrees(PM me if you want to know how I know that). That doesn't mean that's a representative sample of pilots at Mesaba, but I'm sure they were hiring 300 hours wonders without degrees while they were desperate for pilots. I don't want this to be twisted by someone saying I think pilots without degrees are not quality pilots, I just think DAL will continue with their hiring requirements when the new DAL resumes hiring...that's all.

As to your comment about NWA pilots without degrees...like your experience at Mesaba, I can comment on NWA. I have not flown with a DC-9 CA yet who was not a college grad. I'm sure we have our share, but I think a majority have degrees.

The interesting thing is that just about every FO I've flown with here at Mesaba has a degree. But a degree in what??! Aviation?! HA! You might as well not have a degree, good luck putting that degree into good use.

 

[SEVEN]

The interesting thing is that just about every FO I've flown with here at Mesaba has a degree. But a degree in what??! Aviation?! HA! You might as well not have a degree, good luck putting that degree into good use.

Aviation Science Technology. Wow. What a waste of time, money, and a worthless degree. Unfortunately, there are still thousands of suckers willing to dive deep into debt to acquire such a pointless degree. Save the money for a down payment on a house.

Oh, I forget...............unless mommy and daddy are fitting the six figure bill so GQ Johnny can flip the APU switch on the "NEXTGEN 9"

 

[xjgearbtch]

Except the NEXTGEN 9... you don't flip the APU switch, you only flip that switch in anger i.e. it broke

 

[Speedtape]

Aviation Science Technology. Wow. What a waste of time, money, and a worthless degree. Unfortunately, there are still thousands of suckers willing to dive deep into debt to acquire such a pointless degree. Save the money for a down payment on a house.

Oh, I forget...............unless mommy and daddy are fitting the six figure bill so GQ Johnny can flip the APU switch on the "NEXTGEN 9"

And your degree is in Quantam Physics?

 

[Superpilot92]

Are you implying that the pilots of Mesaba or Compass do not have degrees?

In my nine years at Mesaba I have only flown with one person that did not have a degree, but even he was working on one through online courses. I cannot say the same for NWA mainline. I know quite a few without a degree. If DAL covets this so much, will they (NWA pilots) not be able to merge? *sarcasm*

Every single person hired in the last round of hiring had a 4 year degree. It was a requirement to get an interview and rightfully so.

 

[Superpilot92]

Aviation Science Technology. Wow. What a waste of time, money, and a worthless degree. Unfortunately, there are still thousands of suckers willing to dive deep into debt to acquire such a pointless degree. Save the money for a down payment on a house.

Oh, I forget...............unless mommy and daddy are fitting the six figure bill so GQ Johnny can flip the APU switch on the "NEXTGEN 9"

While an aviation degree is limiting in what it can be used for its hardly worthless. Its a box that can be checked off on the application. Many of the "good" aviation jobs require a degree. The only people that say a degree is worthless are those that dont have one. If i didnt have my degree i wouldnt have my current job so i would say its not "worthless".

 

[wmuflyguy]

A worthless degree would be one that you have but haven't used in say 10 or 15 year's.

My friend (A captain) who has a degree in Computer Science...except he got it in the early 80's...the Science of Computers have changed a little.

 

[Flybet3]

A worthless degree would be one that you have but haven't used in say 10 or 15 year's.

My friend (A captain) who has a degree in Computer Science...except he got it in the early 80's...the Science of Computers have changed a little.

sooooo In other words you just described just about every sucker who likes to brag about having a degree and has been a pilot for the last 10 to 20 years.

 

[DX Rick]

Also Alot of talk at Comair about merging with Mesaba after the NWA/Delta merger is official. Have you guys been hearing anything?

Also, Mesaba guys. How much are you guys putting into your "Merger Assesment Fund"??

 

[wmuflyguy]

sooooo In other words you just described just about every sucker who likes to brag about having a degree and has been a pilot for the last 10 to 20 years.

Yea pretty much, unless you choose to stay current in your degree field, or had significant work experience (outside of school) prior to your aviation career.

For many fields there is the option of refresher courses...they cost cash (which can be short in a furlough) and take time.

I'm an aviation degree holder, if I get axed, I'm heading to the local university and getting another degree (i'm looking at accounting and finance), while working whatever crap job it takes.

 

[Flybet3]

Yea pretty much, unless you choose to stay current in your degree field, or had significant work experience (outside of school) prior to your aviation career.

For many fields there is the option of refresher courses...they cost cash (which can be short in a furlough) and take time.

I'm an aviation degree holder, if I get axed, I'm heading to the local university and getting another degree (i'm looking at accounting and finance), while working whatever crap job it takes.

Good man, best of luck if anything happens. Thank you for having your feet on the ground.

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

Every single person hired in the last round of hiring had a 4 year degree. It was a requirement to get an interview and rightfully so.

Rightly so? Are you serious? Can you name one thing that goes on in a modern flight deck that a degree makes better? It's a way to say that we are "professionals" or "white collar", or some other such rubbish...here's an idea...pay us like professionals and treat us like professionals...(and yes, I have a degree)...

 

[DoinTime]

Can you name one thing that goes on in a modern flight deck that a degree makes better?

How about documented proof that an individual is capable of sticking with a program over a protracted period of time to achieve a defined accomplishment regardless of the perceived value?

It might not make you a better pilot but when an employer only has a very limited amount of time to decide on a future employee the applicant without the degree will have the appearance of a deadbeat.

 

[DoinTime]

Aviation Science Technology. Wow. What a waste of time, money, and a worthless degree.

The vast majority of college degrees are either worthless by the time the individual gets to exercise the knowledge or become irrelevant due to career change. A degree in "Aviation Science" or whatever is no better or worse than anything else. If you want to focus on a career path get a masters.