Frontier Done (?)

[stratus72]

Stratus72 I wish you and you employee group the best and I hope Frontier is around for years to come.

However, this statement from you is very asinine.
"I'm willing to bet we as employees are receiving more pertinent info than you and your friends."

I personally know many pilots that were so misinformed by management that they didn't know the airline was shut down until they landed.
The old "terminator forever checklist please."
My favorite was National airlines in LAS. They took money for first class upgrades at the counter and by the time the paxs got to the gate it was all over.

Asinine? Believe me, I'd be the last guy in the room to drink from managements cup of promises. I've been through this with another airline. My point is that people ramble and can't back up what they say. Almost as if they get this sick sense of happiness from harping on the hard times of others. I gurantee I'm getting more information, most of it pertinent, than the "same hand full of posters" on this board. How much clearer can i be? I've stated numerous times that we are by no means out of the woods on this one. it's just if you're going to post on here be sure to have accurate info. Personally, I don't think at this time we at f9 are being fed management BS. they are not painting of rosie picture...this could go either way. even if we survive, this airline might shrink.

Just trying to shed some logic on things. there are more than just pilots on this board. there are family members, other f9 workers, etc...who will take what people post as fact.

Not drinking koolaid, trust me on that.

 

[stratus72]

You know, we can go around in circles all night. Don't believe everything you hear on these boards. Don't think just because something happened to "all these other airlines" that it will surely happen to yours. Lastly, don't believe everything your managment tells you. I know, I know, common sense...or is it?

I hope F9 emerges as success story in these uncertain times and that others will follow our lead. I'm not giving up quite yet.

Best of luck to all of you.

 

[Flying the Line]

Could this be the source?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/24878990/for/cnbc

Don't worry though. I think United is doing everything they can to keep F9 in business.

 

[F9 Buff]

But why did Frontier sell these airplanes?

Obviously to free up some money... I think it was part of the plan to stay out of Chapter 11 as it was in the works for some time before they declared. Only problem was when the credit card company pulled the rug out from under them.

Also my understanding is that they were the 4 least efficient planes in the fleet. I also believe there were two 319s and the other two were shorties.

Hang in there F9!

 

[stratus72]

Everyone at our company has been provided this info on our company site. Hell, we've lost more since then. We're just hoping that we can convince the investors that we have a strong business plan going forth. Yes, I hope the management team has one. This long since we've filed and we still have the attention of the board, the judge and potential DIP. there must be some light at the end of the tunnel. Having said that, oil keeps going up.

We shall see...

 

[MINIME]

Best of luck to you all...... Frontier has been to me, one of those airlines that has stood out as a good place for its employees and where pilots are satisfied and proud to be at. I never thought I would say this, but I hope LUV runs into some fences trying to capitalize in Denver. My most sincere respect for LUV and its employees, but I hope Frontier finds a way to to survive and send them away. I, you, we, know what they're trying to do here. It is capitalism at work. Can't blame them, but on this one I'm not hoping for them to be successful. Disclaimer: I am a fan of LUV and their structure, but I have to fall out of line on this one. No employee at either company's fault, simply capitalism and business at work. But a good respectable company is in distress. I think that for the good of the industry it needs to survive. Here's to hope that Frontier can survive the shock and awe attack. God knows that with fuel hedges at $50 a barrel and 3 billion in cash, the attack can shock and awe most of us. Again, no disrespect for either airline, simply being humane.

 

[Jmoney]

I do think what SWA is doing is wrong. They should have stayed the size they were 5 yrs ago and profited greatly off the cost effectiveness they had.

Their growth will just lead them down the same path all the legacies went down. Getting too large just leads to bankruptcy.... Especially for a domestic business like SWA. They have lost their "economy of scale" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_scale (in other words-as they become larger, thier profit margin will shrink) and they are now just being predatory.

It is a shame SWA has to screw with places that don't matter to them. They used to do a smart thing by avoiding major hubs-now they have just started to go after other airlines because they can.

I feel bad for Frontier people-you all have built a good airline. Just be assured that SWA will pay for what they are doing-the economics will catch up to them one day as well.

-Good Luck!

 

[GCD]

Good luck to you, but I've been at three companies where everyting was fine and dandy until the 1159 pm shutdown in front of a judge. When you wake up to the local news station telling you that you are out of a job, now that's airline life.

 

[Andy]

Obviously to free up some money... I think it was part of the plan to stay out of Chapter 11 as it was in the works for some time before they declared. Only problem was when the credit card company pulled the rug out from under them.

Also my understanding is that they were the 4 least efficient planes in the fleet. I also believe there were two 319s and the other two were shorties.

Hang in there F9!

2 318s, 2 319s. Likely sold not because of efficiency, but due to having the most equity in them. F9 raised ~$35M on the sale of the four aircraft. That information's buried somewhere in the court documents from the epiqystems website; I read the document several weeks ago. http://chapter11.epiqsystems.com/clientdefault.aspx?pk=6b4c2466-fe17-4862-974e-85c808c77495&l=1

Here's the latest filing by F9 (so that we can say that everyone's got the facts):
http://www.frontierairlines.com/secfilings/8k052808/8k052808.pdf

F9 had $170M cash on hand at the end of Dec; they had $100M at the end of April.

West Texas Intermediate crude spot price:
10 April: $110.07
30 April: $113.70
6 June: $138.54

 

[Mach 80]

SWA isn't going to major hubs "because they can". They operate a business. They have almost run out of good 2ndary alternative airports and they also need the larger population bases to provide and generate more revenue that a large city airport is much more able to do than Midland Texas.

 

[Colonel Savage]

My favorite was National Airlines in LAS. They took money for first class upgrades at the counter and by the time the paxs got to the gate it was all over.

YGTBSM! C'mon, how can that happen? Must have had a riot at the gate. Are you sure?

 

[Andy]

Actually, we are holding our own against SWA, pax wise.

Holding your own against Southwest? Maybe. But your May 2008 passenger yield only increased 1.2% year over year. And that's with a 3.3% load factor increase.
The planes are more full, but F9's still selling their tickets in the lower fare buckets. That's the Southwest effect.

 

[sfomarc]

I don't think that we are going to "hubs" because we want to, I think it's because we have been forced to due to the Legacies lowering their fares to LCC fares. If US Air kept their fares at say $600.00 out of PHL while SWA fares were $300.00 out of BWI then in my opinion we would leave PHL alone. People would drive 2 hours to save $300.00. Same with New York and ISP. People will drive to the island to save money but if JB and Legacies have similar pricing then we need to go there to retain market share.

I think the days of secondary airports are over unless they have a big enough following of their own or they are close enough and convenient enough to a hub airport without inconveniencing pax

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Don't they meet with the BK Judge tomorrow morning? Any word on whether they have secured DIP financing? If not, it may be curtains unfortunately. The price of crude is not going to help either.

 

[Whine Lover]

What was the "Klown Show"?

Congrats on your "preparation" Are you retired now?

- The Klown Show was our entire middle Management/Flight Ops structure with a few shining exceptions.

- Yes, and Retirement is not as easy as it looks. EVERY day I have to ask the same question: "What's for Dinner? " It's maddening I tell you...


YKMKR