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Forbes take on CAL/UAL

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Sonny Crockett

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Posts
584
A lot of people are stressing right now. Here is an article in Forbes today that might help you remember that no deals have been made. Thus, relax, drink a beer and save for the day we really need to fight.




Grounding Airline Mergers
Tom Van Riper, 04.28.08, 5:45 PM ET



Where does the game of airline musical chairs go next?

Possibly on break. United Airlines and Continental Airlines (nyse: CAL - news - people ), recently thought to be close to a deal, have called things off.

So what happens now? Will United go back to merger talks with U.S. Airways (nyse: LCC - news - people )? Will Continental pursue a deal with American? How about U.S. Airways-American? Then there's Northwest-Delta, already at the altar.

To hear analysts tell it, any of these deals could happen. Just not right away. For now, the industry needs to catch its breath and deal with record fuel prices and a slumping economy. That means keeping its eye on the ball.

Any merger announcement means months of regulatory review followed by a long implementation process, on top of hefty fees to lawyers and investment bankers. "It would be nothing but a distraction for the next several months," says industry analyst Bob McAdoo of Avondale Partners.

McAdoo, who spoke to senior Continental managers over the weekend, said the company pulled out of its proposed deal with United mainly because it wants to wait for things--like the price of oil--to settle down a bit first.

Feeling pressured to make a move during desperate times just wasn't sitting well. Management's collective opinion: Should oil prove to be in a price bubble, one that sends it back to $85 from nearly $120, then we can think about it.

Not that mergers are the cure for what ails the major airlines anyway.

"The real solution is reducing available seat miles by another 20%," says Calyon Securities airline analyst Ray Neidl. "That's the case with or without a merger." With oil prices showing no immediate sign of letting up, prices simply have to rise. Hence, more supply needs to be taken out of the marketplace. A deal that helps eliminate duplicate hubs can make capacity reduction a bit easier, Neidl points out, though it's hardly a panacea.

There are some potential marriages on the horizon, according to McAdoo, that would make sense. U.S. Airways strength across much of northern U.S. makes it a potentially viable traffic feeder for American Airlines' (nyse: AMR - news - people ) power in European routes. American has recently completed a new state-of-the-art terminal at New York's Kennedy Airport, aimed at beefing up its international power. In the same way, U.S. Airways could be attractive to United, a leader in the Asian markets along with the new Delta-Northwest entity.

Continental, meanwhile, has the attractive Newark, N.J., hub that everyone craves, along with a strong South American presence. Should the airline ultimately go back and reconsider a United deal, it would mean instant access to lucrative Asian routes. United has maintained a strong presence in Asia since purchasing routes from Pan Am two decades ago. With the region becoming increasingly important to business travelers, those routes are now the biggest carrot the carrier has to appeal to a potential merger partner.

"If what we end up with is six legacy carriers being reduced to three, then two of them will have an Asian presence," McAdoo says, citing Delta-Northwest and whichever carrier ends up partnering with United.

Expect Continental or U.S. Airways to be that partner. But not until 2009.
 
How about raise ticket prices to pay for the high cost of fuel......only so many can go ride on the LCCs....they will have to pay or not go. Every other industry passes on the cost to the consumer.....just a thought.
 
"It would be nothing but a distraction for the next several months," says industry analyst Bob McAdoo of Avondale Partners.

McAdoo, who spoke to senior Continental managers over the weekend, said the company pulled out of its proposed deal with United mainly because it wants to wait for things--like the price of oil--to settle down a bit first.
ea.

There are some potential marriages on the horizon, according to McAdoo, that would make sense. U.S. Airways strength across much of northern U.S. makes it a potentially viable traffic feeder for American Airlines' (nyse: AMR - news - people ) power in European routes. American has recently completed a new state-of-the-art terminal at New York's Kennedy Airport, aimed at beefing up its international power. In the same way, U.S. Airways could be attractive to United, a leader in the Asian markets along with the new Delta-Northwest entity.

Continental, meanwhile, has the attractive Newark, N.J., hub that everyone craves, along with a strong South American presence. Should the airline ultimately go back and reconsider a United deal, it would mean instant access to lucrative Asian routes. United has maintained a strong presence in Asia since purchasing routes from Pan Am two decades ago. With the region becoming increasingly important to business travelers, those routes are now the biggest carrot the carrier has to appeal to a potential merger partner.

"If what we end up with is six legacy carriers being reduced to three, then two of them will have an Asian presence," McAdoo says, citing Delta-Northwest and whichever carrier ends up partnering with United.

Expect Continental or U.S. Airways to be that partner. But not until 2009.

Some background for the folks.

Bob McAdoo was the CFO of People Express.

:eek:
 
Any merger announcement means months of regulatory review followed by a long implementation process, on top of hefty fees to lawyers and investment bankers.

I was very surprised that DAL/NWA happened. Someone threw ~$1.5B at them to make the merger happen.
Mergers are HUGELY expensive on the front end.

"The real solution is reducing available seat miles by another 20%," says Calyon Securities airline analyst Ray Neidl. "That's the case with or without a merger." With oil prices showing no immediate sign of letting up, prices simply have to rise. Hence, more supply needs to be taken out of the marketplace. A deal that helps eliminate duplicate hubs can make capacity reduction a bit easier, Neidl points out, though it's hardly a panacea.

Wow! 20% less ASMs = 20% less pilot jobs.
I think that right now's the time to reduce capacity in order to preserve cash - just about every departure from every airport by all airlines is a money loser in today's environment. This is not the time to expand unless you're Southwest - they're a different animal due to their strong balance sheet and favorable hedges. They still lose money on their flights, but it's more than offset by their hedges. They are in the driver's seat when it comes to ticket pricing.
 
I was very surprised that DAL/NWA happened. Someone threw ~$1.5B at them to make the merger happen.
Mergers are HUGELY expensive on the front end.



Wow! 20% less ASMs = 20% less pilot jobs.
I think that right now's the time to reduce capacity in order to preserve cash - just about every departure from every airport by all airlines is a money loser in today's environment. This is not the time to expand unless you're Southwest - they're a different animal due to their strong balance sheet and favorable hedges. They still lose money on their flights, but it's more than offset by their hedges. They are in the driver's seat when it comes to ticket pricing.


When did you start becoming management material Andy? You don't sound anything like you did a few years back. Did you go out and get an finance degree while we were out on furlough? Most of your post aren't from the pilot or union point of view.
 
A lot of people are stressing right now. Here is an article in Forbes today that might help you remember that no deals have been made. Thus, relax, drink a beer and save for the day we really need to fight.




Grounding Airline Mergers
Tom Van Riper, 04.28.08, 5:45 PM ET



Where does the game of airline musical chairs go next?

Possibly on break. United Airlines and Continental Airlines (nyse: CAL - news - people ), recently thought to be close to a deal, have called things off.

So what happens now? Will United go back to merger talks with U.S. Airways (nyse: LCC - news - people )? Will Continental pursue a deal with American? How about U.S. Airways-American? Then there's Northwest-Delta, already at the altar.

To hear analysts tell it, any of these deals could happen. Just not right away. For now, the industry needs to catch its breath and deal with record fuel prices and a slumping economy. That means keeping its eye on the ball.

Any merger announcement means months of regulatory review followed by a long implementation process, on top of hefty fees to lawyers and investment bankers. "It would be nothing but a distraction for the next several months," says industry analyst Bob McAdoo of Avondale Partners.

McAdoo, who spoke to senior Continental managers over the weekend, said the company pulled out of its proposed deal with United mainly because it wants to wait for things--like the price of oil--to settle down a bit first.

Feeling pressured to make a move during desperate times just wasn't sitting well. Management's collective opinion: Should oil prove to be in a price bubble, one that sends it back to $85 from nearly $120, then we can think about it.

Not that mergers are the cure for what ails the major airlines anyway.

"The real solution is reducing available seat miles by another 20%," says Calyon Securities airline analyst Ray Neidl. "That's the case with or without a merger." With oil prices showing no immediate sign of letting up, prices simply have to rise. Hence, more supply needs to be taken out of the marketplace. A deal that helps eliminate duplicate hubs can make capacity reduction a bit easier, Neidl points out, though it's hardly a panacea.

There are some potential marriages on the horizon, according to McAdoo, that would make sense. U.S. Airways strength across much of northern U.S. makes it a potentially viable traffic feeder for American Airlines' (nyse: AMR - news - people ) power in European routes. American has recently completed a new state-of-the-art terminal at New York's Kennedy Airport, aimed at beefing up its international power. In the same way, U.S. Airways could be attractive to United, a leader in the Asian markets along with the new Delta-Northwest entity.

Continental, meanwhile, has the attractive Newark, N.J., hub that everyone craves, along with a strong South American presence. Should the airline ultimately go back and reconsider a United deal, it would mean instant access to lucrative Asian routes. United has maintained a strong presence in Asia since purchasing routes from Pan Am two decades ago. With the region becoming increasingly important to business travelers, those routes are now the biggest carrot the carrier has to appeal to a potential merger partner.

"If what we end up with is six legacy carriers being reduced to three, then two of them will have an Asian presence," McAdoo says, citing Delta-Northwest and whichever carrier ends up partnering with United.

Expect Continental or U.S. Airways to be that partner. But not until 2009.

Really? Even with a potential Democrat in office? Highly doubt that. DAL/NWA will be completed by then and the others might miss out...

Sure, consolidation would SUCK for the pilots out there with potential job losses or displacement, but let's just talk about market realities - politics and the ability to actually consummate the deal are big considerations. Clinton/Obama probably would nix any deals, so, let's hope oil costs are reduced big time (not a chance with rising global demand and lack of refineries). Don't forget the political considerations that have forced many of these consolidation talks...

The window of opportunity might close soon and all of the CEOs are aware of that.
 
When did you start becoming management material Andy? You don't sound anything like you did a few years back. Did you go out and get an finance degree while we were out on furlough? Most of your post aren't from the pilot or union point of view.

???

No, I didn't get a finance degree during my 5 years of furlough. My college major was Economics.

How exactly are my posts not from the pilot or union point of view? OK, I'm ticked at ALPA for changing to age 65, so you've got me on that one. I'm also not too happy with the way that UAL ALPA on more than a couple of issues.

Trimming capacity is essential in order to raise ticket prices to a reasonable level. However, I think that 20% is a bit excessive.
 
These "analysts" crack me up!!! First they say, "It's a done deal". Whatever!!! I don't even listen to them anymore. CAL will be independent......PERIOD. Thank god too....
 
Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett
Continental, meanwhile, has the attractive Newark, N.J., hub that everyone craves


Yeah, it's such a nice place over there.

Yeah I don't think "attractive" is the right word for Newark... Lucrative sounds more like it. I think Newark generates the highest RASM of any other US airport.
 

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