Flight Options?

[The Kman]

Greetings to all. I will try to keep this simple. I have been offered a position with Flight Options. Should I stay at my shrinking 'wholly owned' or move on?

 

[ProFracPilot]

Ummm...No.

I highly recommend you use the search function and do your research on Flight Options.

Not here, not right now would be my suggestion. Until we have a CBA, this is not a good place to be. You might also want to read the following:

The Flight Options Blog has two stories on it now talking about how our company helped an owner dealing with a friend's son's death, and another one that talks of an owner going through cancer, and all the stuff the company did for them, which was really not much more than what their jobs were supposed to do.​

The company says that its team members and owners are equally important to the success of the business. Yet when we have a pilot die, or a pilot's spouse die, it has been a nightmare for the survivor and their family:​

One person I know, who was a flight options pilot here and married to another flight options pilot, had her husband pass away. It was a very difficult time, prolonged and painful, and extremely sad. The very young and fairly newly-wed couple had paid for the extra insurance (the multiplier), and the company did not want to pay it, because although they took the money out, the company never told the insurance company. It was a big HR mess and screw-up, and at an extremely stressful and emotional time. Additional stress was added to an extremely traumatic - in fact, I'd say THE most traumatic period of her life, and she had to FIGHT to get her money, with the company and the insurance company both pointing fingers at each other as who was at fault, and neither one wanting to pay up. Then, on top of that, they screwed up her pay while on berievement leave. I can't remember the amount she was paid but it was a ridiculously low amount of money. ANOTHER HR screw-up. Again, she had to FIGHT for her money. Then on top of THAT, she wanted additional time off as she wasn't emotionally ready to go back to work after her initial leave, still handing affairs, etc., and it was refused because "they couldn't afford her to be gone any longer".... when at the very same time not one, but TWO of her program managers who flew the same airplane WENT ON VACATION that very same time period. She went anyways and basically told them to fire her if they wanted, but she wasn't going to work. They didn't. But the stress and anger over the whole situation was too much for her and she no longer works here, now. She quit, flies out of her home domicile, is home almost every night and doubled her salary. Way to go, Flight Options Team!​

Then, we have our pilots who are currently fighting cancer and fighting for their very lives. What does our company do? Even though they are still full-time employees, and were at the time of diagnosis, our company makes them COBRA to pay for their insurance benefits. They do NOT have to force this, especially since we self-insure. So not only are these pilots too ill to work and NOT making any money because of their illness, they have to pay half a month's salary per month in insurance benefits just to keep what they had when before they were diagnosed so they can continue their fight. WAY TO GO FLIGHT OPTIONS TEAM!​

REALLY makes you proud to be a team member, don't it? Don't ya FEEL that Corporate pride?​

These are just two stories I will share. I have more I will not. I'm sure others have plenty of horror stories, and yes, I'm sure there are still a few exceptions to the rule. That's the problem. The company is inconsistent in such matters, and sometimes it definitely matters who you know, and there are several stories of favoritism out there as well. I merely point out these two stories because they are a DIRECT contradiction exactly, to the two stories on the Flight Options blog.​

Meanwhile, our pilots are still flying around our executives and/or their spouses from Cleveland to Disneyworld, or New York for shopping sprees, taking a crew and an aircraft (and sometimes a BACKUP just in case their plane breaks!) away from servicing our owners. Our pilots still have NO sick leave at all. On top of that, the company "keeps a record" of whenever a pilot calls in sick, and threatens disciplinary action if someone calls in sick "too many times", and the "number" required to get such disciplinary actions is not established in writing anywhere. Some pilots get more days of sick time than others before they are called in. If you call in sick on day 1, that seems to magnify things. This is, by definition, "pilot pushing", and an example of how our management tries to manage by fear, which can directly affect the safety of a crew and/or their passengers.​

The company is so short of pilots they literally cannot operate without begging pilots to do overtime, something the Union has asked our pilots NOT to do because it falsely inflates the number of pilots the company thinks it needs, at a time where once again we have been threatened in writing with the possibility of up-coming lay-offs. And due to the tyrrany of threats for calling in sick, pilots end up flying sick, getting other pilots and passengers sick because they can't afford to take the time off and lose pay, or are too afraid for fear of retribution, to call in sick.​

Also, since "vacation" is used for sick time, pilots are also forced to fly sick because they can't afford to take any time off, because the company forces us to take our vacations when they want, and it does not take long for pilots to end up in a negative balance, exactly where the company wants them to be.​

We are also still being FORCED to take vacations, with little or no warning, because our "vacation hours" get too high. I personally had this happen and I use all of my leave, every year, for my son who requires extensive medical care and has at least one surgery every other year, or so, lately, so when they forced me to take vacation, I ended up having to go negative on my balance for a scheduled medical trip I had to take. Even after this "re-alignment" they did with everyone's schedules for their new "vacation Award (which is a fancy way of saying "forced vacation policy"), people are still getting assigned forced vacation e-mails like we did before.​

And above all, the company has saw fit to raise our insurance premiums absolutely ridiculous amounts, while at the same time decreasing the benefits we have, every year for the past two years. One flight options manager reportedly admitted that the pilots are paying for the company's negotiations through our insurance premiums. Considering the cost increase per month in the past two years times between 900 and 550 pilots (a corresponding decrease in the number of pilots employed here during the same time frame), that is a LOT of money, when the average increase in healthcare was a mere fraction of the amount of the increases we now are burdened with.​

It's too bad that our company doesn't take all of this "compassion" they flout that they have for the owners and put it toward its own employees. There was a time, before the merger, when they would do such things.​

Our company has lost touch with its employees, regardless of the multi-million dollar waste of money they did on "service on a higher plane".​

Thankfully, we now have a Union and with a contract, we will FORCE our company to remember at least the pilots in such times of need. The company will be FORCED to recognize the need for BOTH Vacation AND sick time, and rules will be established FORCING the company to award vacations properly. We will FORCE our company to give us an industry standard amount of days off instead of the pathetic 12 we get now. Hopefully we won't be raped by the company with having to pay insurance premiums at all. Net Jets pilots pay NOTHING for their insurance, remember - they FORCED their company to pay for them with their solidarity during negotiations. We will have rules established and in writing regarding sick leave, and with our grievance procedures, we will FORCE our company to not be able to terrorize and/or intimidate pilots into flying sick. And we will FORCE our company to NO LONGER be able to just "change" what our insurance benefits are, or what they cost, whenever THEY see fit. ANY changes, WHATSOEVER, would have to be negotiated, and then VOTED ON, by all of us, to become effective.​

By God, we will FORCE our company to be compassionate toward our Pilots, since they do not have the heart or humanity to do it on their own.​

 

[Whoosh!]

Are you kidding Kman?

 

[GerryG]

Run Forrest run!


Management is currently threatening furloughs. Empty threats (since they are also hiring). But that should give you a sense of the environment here.

Unless you want to get in the middle of a brutal fight, stay away.

 

[shanes123]

you would be better off flight instructing in a 172!!!

 

[The Kman]

Things look pretty grim at my company. I am a five year f/o with no chance of an upgrade. My QOL of life is rather bad. Our contract is not amendable until 2011. I would think even a fractional in negotiations would be better than this. Is there any guess when a TA might be reached? How often are they meeting? Is the company negotiating in good faith? I originally considered Flight Options so I would not have to commute. Also, once the contract is settled, Flight Options may be the place to be. These are just some of the things my family has been thinking about. On another note, is hiring only due to attrition? Who has been going to Flight Options?

 

[jetwash]

Things look pretty grim at my company. I am a five year f/o with no chance of an upgrade. My QOL of life is rather bad. Our contract is not amendable until 2011. I would think even a fractional in negotiations would be better than this. Is there any guess when a TA might be reached? How often are they meeting? Is the company negotiating in good faith? I originally considered Flight Options so I would not have to commute. Also, once the contract is settled, Flight Options may be the place to be. These are just some of the things my family has been thinking about. On another note, is hiring only due to attrition? Who has been going to Flight Options?

First of all you will be looking at 8 years minimum maybe 9 before you up grade from a FO position to PIC. I kn ow of many 6 year FO's at FLOPS who are still years away from upgrade. So be prepared to sit in the right seat for a while at FO wages.

Second, the CEO just sent out a letter to employees talking about down sizing the company.

Guess who will be the first pilot out the door when this happens????

If you want to roll the dice go ahead.

 

[FastJP4]

KMAN
My best suggestion would be to use the search function. It will depict a very difficult world at Flops. The current FLops may make your job not look too bad after all.

Fast

 

[glasspilot]

Shoulda thought of that before you said yes to Eagle. It's not exactly a secret that their stupid union signed a 16YEAR contract, I'll say it again 16YEAR contract that gave away the farm just so they could get "flow through" with American on a 4 to 1 basis. Then that contract allowed American furloughs to "flow back" and decimate the captain ranks of Eagle after 9/11. Those folks at Eagle got exactly what they deserved. They started thinking short term, gave everything away to get what they thought was the holy grail, and then got shafted when the holy grail turn out to be a turd wrapped in cloth. The American pilots flowed BACK to the tune of thousands even though just over 100 Eagle guys flowed up and it was supposed to be capped 1 for 1. Too bad you're "wholly owned" has all the rules made by the parent company!

If you were too blind to know the history of Eagle when you took the job then shame on you.

I've never worked for Eagle and don't really know anyone there but I know a horrible contract when I see one and I've always hated their 16 year give a way plan.

 

[Frac Cap]

Everything you read here is spot on accurate. Our two largest aircraft programs are shrinking. We are selling legacies because our garage door salesman can't sell shares in them. Also, the X program is shrinking. The last two bids for hawker pic's went to X captains, and historically the only reason management lets people bid backwards is when they are shutting a program down. Now I am not saying that they are shutting down our two largest aircraft programs, but they are definitely shrinking, and if they get too small I would guess they would be revising our "go forward fleet". The reason for the hawker pic bid is only for attrition, because that program is not growing either. I personally would stay put if I was at a company that I knew that I could get a reliable paycheck. I am not sure how long we can keep this company afloat with the attrition of pilots that we have and a lack of leadership that can steer us through these tough times.

Good luck on your decision.

 

[Whoosh!]

Dude, seriously, use the search function. I know guys at eagle and FLOPS is definitely NOT career advancement. You're going from bad to bad/really bad. Seems like about once every couple months now we get a guy who posts on this board saying he's thinking about going to Options and wonders what we all think- we respond and they quickly realize how bad a decision it would be. FLOPS is THE WORST in the fractional business and is almost guaranteed not to be around much longer, at least in its current form. Let's see if we can answer some of these questions...

"Things look pretty grim at my company." FLOPS is no flower garden either. "I am a five year f/o with no chance of an upgrade." Again, welcome to FLOPS. "My QOL of life is rather bad." Are we still talking about FLOPS? "Our contract is not amendable until 2011." Ah, NO contract at FLOPS. "I would think even a fractional in negotiations would be better than this.?" At least you gave it the old college try on this one. "Is there any guess when a TA might be reached?" Probably never. Even if one is reached, it will be pretty sh1tty. Management has directly indicated they have no intention of budging on issues that would make the contract worth while. "How often are they meeting?" Once, maybe twice a month? "Is the company negotiating in good faith?" Absolutely not. "I originally considered Flight Options so I would not have to commute. Also, once the contract is settled, Flight Options may be the place to be." You will not find any sane, rational individual who is familiar with the fractional industry who will agree with you on this. The other companies are so far ahead in market share, management quality, infrastructure, reputation, and backing its rediculous. FLOPS is not at all what it once was and is now pretty much in an irreversable spiral. This is probably the most detrimental line of thought you could take. "These are just some of the things my family has been thinking about. On another note, is hiring only due to attrition?" Pretty much. NO new deliveries. FLOPS can't afford them and is now selling airplanes to get short term cash. Attrition is far exceeding any hiring. Most who interviewed won't take the offer. "Who has been going to Flight Options?" Desperate, desperate men.

Listen to people who are familiar with this company, man. Don't be stupid.

 

[Just Peachy]

FLOPS is bad news

Nice post Propilotfrac.......

As bad as you guys have it, we were NEVER that bad off. Yes, we were willing to STFD and lose our jobs over the contract but at least the company stayed within their legal bounds.

Might of had something to do with Warren owning the whole mess and backfireing having egg on his face.....

 

[Captain Dork]

The real deal

It seems like there is a ton of misinformation flowing all around about FO. I have been here nine years, and here is my version of the current situation.

FlightOptions has been badly managed for many years. There is no credible replacements currently down the road. It is my belief, that is by design (a highly insecure senior management). The number two guy, and the VP of Flight Operations are not promotable. The number two guy does not understand the basic business, affluent Americans, the aviation culture, and is socially ill-at-ease, he also doesn't look so handsome. The VP of Flight Operations is unfortunatelly intellectually not adequate. His writing skills, thought process, and presentation are what you might see in a small FBO charter department operating C310's. The CEO must have read the book "How I Did It" by Frank Lorenzo, and fell in love. Then he shared the book with Orenstien from Mesa (who is one of our customers). Together they determined that if the unions never broke Lorenzo's kneecaps, then they would be safe, also.

FlightOptions pilots are probably some of the safest and most experienced pilots around (seeing as the average experience level in each airplane type, and this type of flying, glorified ad hoc charter, is so high). I am an eight year captain and only 1/3 up the seniority ladder. We haven't had a mishap for a long, long time. There haven't been any newbies for four years, Guess why?

Around seventy-five percent of the pilot group won't cut the company any slack. Airplanes break where they break. Nobody has to make any special effort to grind this operation to a crawl. The airplanes are getting old, and our maintenance management is not keen.

Everything outsourceable is assigned to the lowest bidder. We have terrible paintjobs. Some items never get resolved as they would at a manufacturers service center. The trouble gets piled up in a long term way. The last six months have been especially ugly, as anything deferrable is repaired at a much later date. And this includes passenger convenience items like tempeture controllers, light switches, DVD's, seat adjustments, and stained carpets. So these are glaring deficiencies, per customer perception, I believe.

Management does not really understand the private jet marketplace. It comes from the airlines, where they failed there (MetroJet and USairways Express), and tries to duplicate the same screwups, here. We at one time had competent management (hello Ken Combs, Gary Hart, Mike Marada, Stephanie, Jan, Carla, etc).

The anamosity level is so high, this company may eventually fail. I pray before I go to bed "take care of my little ones, and please God, have Santulli buy whatever's left of Travel Air/Flight Options, Amen."

We have tremendous bad-will with the customer base, and have received very critical reportage in both AIN, and Business and Commercial Aviation. Senior management must really underestimate the jounalistic savvy of these operations, because they try to feed them loads of inaccurate information, assuming nobody fact-checks. This backfires.

The current ownership, HIG, doesn't own any well run or happy aviation operations. And Raytheon, the previous owner and founder, didn't seem to have a clue, although Greg Marlowe from corporate, (currently running the Hawker FOB at KVYN) was a the best manager OCC has had.

Any speculation of the companies cash position is just that, complete conjecture. There is no reliable data except the old 10K reports from Raytheon. The company's only bargain is the pilot group. As an eight year captain in a midsized aircraft, I earn what a two year copilot does at Netjets, and work two more days a month, and pay $350 more a month in insurance products. We, the company, pay the same fuel price as everybody else, and true maintenance expense is probably higher than standard.

It is my understanding Netjets earns almost a million dollars, per airframe, pretax, per year. Could we perhaps hire one or two of their managers who are frustrated, or hate Columbus, or really any reason will do.

My last comment is a refutiation of the "you know what you signed up for" argument. In fact I am working for nothing like I signed up for. I joined TravelAir in 2000. It paid wages similar to the rest of the industry. It paid a defined benefit pension that's payout was the same as all the other Raytheon professionals were receiving (around 80K for 25 years sevice at my probable pay level). My insurance cost was modest. I have probably been earning the same real income for about nine years. We also used to have fun at Travel Air, we stayed at good hotels, got rental cars when appropriate, and didn't show up at the airport at five AM, six hours before the first flight of the day.

The union at FlightOptions has sprung out of pilot angst. It is real, it is popular, it is not going away. Very few non-nuts are on the other side. It could also close the doors on this place and most everybody will find similar or better jobs. People say "Aren't you afraid of all those unemployed airline guys?" Well, ah, "no." Reason being, I am typed and experienced in Hawkers, Beechjets, and know King Airs damn well, as are my brothers and sisters in the IBT1108 at this company. And somebody is going to want to ride in the back of them, wherever these airplanes may go.

Pilots are professionals. Many professionals have professional organizations to advance their self interest. My organization is local 1108 of the IBT. My union President is my coworker, Matt Slinghof. My chief negotiator is Bill Hart. I have sat next to both of them for a whole week, with me the PIC. They are also responsible for some bloodshot eyes, and morning nausea. One day we will have other coworkers in these offices, elected from amongst the pilot group.

Funny I should get on a union rant, because in retrospect I should have bolted three years ago to the Continental mainline or United. Our unionization gave me hope.

Well outsiders, this is FlightOptions.

 

[captain dad]

Wow, I am sorry to hear just how bad it is at FLOPS.

I wish you guys all the best. I hope you get it done and turn that place around.

It is silly to think, in this kind of high end market, that kind of stuff would be tolerated by owners? Amazing!

Good Luck.

 

[johnsonrod]

Things look pretty grim at my company. I am a five year f/o with no chance of an upgrade. My QOL of life is rather bad. Our contract is not amendable until 2011. I would think even a fractional in negotiations would be better than this. Is there any guess when a TA might be reached? How often are they meeting? Is the company negotiating in good faith? I originally considered Flight Options so I would not have to commute. Also, once the contract is settled, Flight Options may be the place to be. These are just some of the things my family has been thinking about. On another note, is hiring only due to attrition? Who has been going to Flight Options?

I heard that two newhires were fired during training recently. One was fired because he asked about the salary issue compared to other fracs when the CEO dropped by training. Would you want to work under such a dictatorial regime? Geez, go apply to Netjets, Flexjet, Citationshares and Avantair and continue to build some hours...

 

[B19 Flyer]

Would you want to work under such a dictatorial regime? ..

Kind of like working with a union, eh?

The difference is with a union, the entire company loses their jobs.

 

[B19 Flyer]

It seems like there is a ton of misinformation flowing all around about FO. I have been here nine years, and here is my version of the current situation.

FlightOptions has been badly managed for many years. There is no credible replacements currently down the road. It is my belief, that is by design (a highly insecure senior management). The number two guy, and the VP of Flight Operations are not promotable. The number two guy does not understand the basic business, affluent Americans, the aviation culture, and is socially ill-at-ease, he also doesn't look so handsome. The VP of Flight Operations is unfortunatelly intellectually not adequate. His writing skills, thought process, and presentation are what you might see in a small FBO charter department operating C310's. The CEO must have read the book "How I Did It" by Frank Lorenzo, and fell in love. Then he shared the book with Orenstien from Mesa (who is one of our customers). Together they determined that if the unions never broke Lorenzo's kneecaps, then they would be safe, also.

FlightOptions pilots are probably some of the safest and most experienced pilots around (seeing as the average experience level in each airplane type, and this type of flying, glorified ad hoc charter, is so high). I am an eight year captain and only 1/3 up the seniority ladder. We haven't had a mishap for a long, long time. There haven't been any newbies for four years, Guess why?

Around seventy-five percent of the pilot group won't cut the company any slack. Airplanes break where they break. Nobody has to make any special effort to grind this operation to a crawl. The airplanes are getting old, and our maintenance management is not keen.

Everything outsourceable is assigned to the lowest bidder. We have terrible paintjobs. Some items never get resolved as they would at a manufacturers service center. The trouble gets piled up in a long term way. The last six months have been especially ugly, as anything deferrable is repaired at a much later date. And this includes passenger convenience items like tempeture controllers, light switches, DVD's, seat adjustments, and stained carpets. So these are glaring deficiencies, per customer perception, I believe.

Management does not really understand the private jet marketplace. It comes from the airlines, where they failed there (MetroJet and USairways Express), and tries to duplicate the same screwups, here. We at one time had competent management (hello Ken Combs, Gary Hart, Mike Marada, Stephanie, Jan, Carla, etc).

The anamosity level is so high, this company may eventually fail. I pray before I go to bed "take care of my little ones, and please God, have Santulli buy whatever's left of Travel Air/Flight Options, Amen."

We have tremendous bad-will with the customer base, and have received very critical reportage in both AIN, and Business and Commercial Aviation. Senior management must really underestimate the jounalistic savvy of these operations, because they try to feed them loads of inaccurate information, assuming nobody fact-checks. This backfires.

The current ownership, HIG, doesn't own any well run or happy aviation operations. And Raytheon, the previous owner and founder, didn't seem to have a clue, although Greg Marlowe from corporate, (currently running the Hawker FOB at KVYN) was a the best manager OCC has had.

Any speculation of the companies cash position is just that, complete conjecture. There is no reliable data except the old 10K reports from Raytheon. The company's only bargain is the pilot group. As an eight year captain in a midsized aircraft, I earn what a two year copilot does at Netjets, and work two more days a month, and pay $350 more a month in insurance products. We, the company, pay the same fuel price as everybody else, and true maintenance expense is probably higher than standard.

It is my understanding Netjets earns almost a million dollars, per airframe, pretax, per year. Could we perhaps hire one or two of their managers who are frustrated, or hate Columbus, or really any reason will do.

My last comment is a refutiation of the "you know what you signed up for" argument. In fact I am working for nothing like I signed up for. I joined TravelAir in 2000. It paid wages similar to the rest of the industry. It paid a defined benefit pension that's payout was the same as all the other Raytheon professionals were receiving (around 80K for 25 years sevice at my probable pay level). My insurance cost was modest. I have probably been earning the same real income for about nine years. We also used to have fun at Travel Air, we stayed at good hotels, got rental cars when appropriate, and didn't show up at the airport at five AM, six hours before the first flight of the day.

The union at FlightOptions has sprung out of pilot angst. It is real, it is popular, it is not going away. Very few non-nuts are on the other side. It could also close the doors on this place and most everybody will find similar or better jobs. People say "Aren't you afraid of all those unemployed airline guys?" Well, ah, "no." Reason being, I am typed and experienced in Hawkers, Beechjets, and know King Airs damn well, as are my brothers and sisters in the IBT1108 at this company. And somebody is going to want to ride in the back of them, wherever these airplanes may go.

Pilots are professionals. Many professionals have professional organizations to advance their self interest. My organization is local 1108 of the IBT. My union President is my coworker, Matt Slinghof. My chief negotiator is Bill Hart. I have sat next to both of them for a whole week, with me the PIC. They are also responsible for some bloodshot eyes, and morning nausea. One day we will have other coworkers in these offices, elected from amongst the pilot group.

Funny I should get on a union rant, because in retrospect I should have bolted three years ago to the Continental mainline or United. Our unionization gave me hope.

Well outsiders, this is FlightOptions.

Well documented on these boards, however, it is well known that bringing a union onto a property for the first time, and that is any business, not just an air carrier, will stagnate the company and make things worse for years.

Why would you have hung out if you weren't happy with your experience and gone to greener pastures?

I understand the commitment to company, been there and done that. However, even if the union gets a CBA, it doesn't mean there is going to be an improvement in how the company is operated.

It only means more cost and administration to a company already in upheaval.

It's clear to everybody, I don't like unions because of what unions have done to me.

However, what I fail to understand the most, is why somebody would hang in there when they knew the jig was up?

The union isn't going to make any improvements, and there are better companies out there. if anything, bringing the union onto the property is going to make things worse for three years or more, then there are another couple of years transition. That makes things into a nightmare.

Why would you not take control of your career and go elsewhere if things were that bad?

 

[dime line]

B19= Moron

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19= Moron

So, is that picture Beavis or Butthead? I really want to know who your hero is.

 

[Galaxy]

Why would you not take control of your career and go elsewhere if things were that bad? -B19


Because it is our job as professionals to control and to raise the bar and end low paying crappy flying jobs. -Galaxy

Contract or Close the Doors.