Lawyer Inputs on Training Contracts (Time Sensitive)

[SoundBarViolatr]

Anyone have any intel on what the real world deal is on Training Contracts? AND the weight of such contracts on an expat scenario (overseas company and US pilot)? In a nutshell, the true colors of the company started showing while the pilot is undergoing training including playing with pay and he wants to know if he can walk away without getting dinged for the cost of the training.

Please PM if you know of any decent aviation lawyers in CA that will work with a low (currently NO) income pilot. Thanks fellas.

SBV

 

[landlover]

does he have a copy of the contract. often times the people that write these contracts use the date that training is completed as the start date of the term of the contract in hopes of squeezing out as much time out of the pilot as possible. if this is true he should be able to quit before he completes training and be fine.

 

[CitationUltra]

Anyone have any intel on what the real world deal is on Training Contracts? AND the weight of such contracts on an expat scenario (overseas company and US pilot)? In a nutshell, the true colors of the company started showing while the pilot is undergoing training including playing with pay and he wants to know if he can walk away without getting dinged for the cost of the training.

Please PM if you know of any decent aviation lawyers in CA that will work with a low (currently NO) income pilot. Thanks fellas.

SBV

You should Google for aviation practice specialties in your local area.

There are so many variables in this that no one would be likely to advise based upon your post, but in general, a contract is what it is, in the U.S. legal jurisdictions. However, from your post, you indicate that this dispute will likely not be adjudicated within U.S. jurisdiction, which makes it very much more complicated.

Did you (or whomever is the subject of your post) complete all of the training required to become qualified for the company? Were they terminated or did they voluntarily quit? Was there any memorialization of the payment arrangement, in the contract? What exactly changed, after the agreement, whether verbal or written, was entered into?

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

Training is about a few days from completion. And it's a voluntary resignation by the person (the guy has not been paid in well over a month).

The blanket contract states that a person will incur a one year commitment after the completion of any type rating training course the person undergoes for the job.

I understand that the battle will be a little bit easier to fight and win if he ejects prior to course completion. However, if he finishes the course, how hard of a battle would it be then? (not to take to consideration that he has not been getting paid as of yet).

 

[CitationUltra]

Training is about a few days from completion. And it's a voluntary resignation by the person (the guy has not been paid in well over a month).

The blanket contract states that a person will incur a one year commitment after the completion of any type rating training course the person undergoes for the job.

I understand that the battle will be a little bit easier to fight and win if he ejects prior to course completion. However, if he finishes the course, how hard of a battle would it be then? (not to take to consideration that he has not been getting paid as of yet).

OK, well, in that case, in the event that the person quits prior to the completion of the training/qualification as set forth in the contract, then the condition has not been met to create the contract.

At the same time, if the employee has not been paid in accordance with the agreement as to when he/she would be paid, then the employee (or prospective employee, see below) is not obligated to continue employment or conditional employment activity.

A question is whether or not the person is actually an employee, i.e., was it a part of the agreement that the person become an employee upon the commencement of training, or upon successful completion of the training and qualification? If the latter, then the person is not an employee in any case and is thus likely not obligated.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

OK, well, in that case, in the event that the person quits prior to the completion of the training/qualification as set forth in the contract, then the condition has not been met to create the contract.

At the same time, if the employee has not been paid in accordance with the agreement as to when he/she would be paid, then the employee (or prospective employee, see below) is not obligated to continue employment or conditional employment activity.

A question is whether or not the person is actually an employee, i.e., was it a part of the agreement that the person become an employee upon the commencement of training, or upon successful completion of the training and qualification? If the latter, then the person is not an employee in any case and is thus likely not obligated.

The person is an employee and has another legal document indicating commencement of employment prior to training. Yes, the company has not paid per the pay schedule set forth in that employment contract.

So comes the golden question. If he finishes the training and is STILL NOT paid by then, would he then have the law on his side to be able to walk away from the company without being sued for the training received?

 

[CitationUltra]

The person is an employee and has another legal document indicating commencement of employment prior to training. Yes, the company has not paid per the pay schedule set forth in that employment contract.

So comes the golden question. If he finishes the training and is STILL NOT paid by then, would he then have the law on his side to be able to walk away from the company without being sued for the training received?

That is a very good question, indeed. His not being paid is a justifiable reason for withholding services (e.g. quitting).

But beware of one aspect of this: The employee knows he is not being paid under the agreement, yet goes ahead and completes training anyway, receiving a valuable credential, which is consideration under the contract, then quits. The company pays the employee, then sues to collect the cost of the type training pursuant to the contract. Now in theory, the company has the now-ex employee over a barrel in relation to the contract. The employee then has to mount an expensive defense of a lawsuit he may well loose.

If I were advising this person, I would say that he or she has a duty to mitigate any loss under the contract, and if he contemplated quitting for the reason of mot being paid, he do so prior to, not after, the completion of training and qualification.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

That is a very good question, indeed. His not being paid is a justifiable reason for withholding services (e.g. quitting).

But beware of one aspect of this: The employee knows he is not being paid under the agreement, yet goes ahead and completes training anyway, receiving a valuable credential, which is consideration under the contract, then quits. The company pays the employee, then sues to collect the cost of the type training pursuant to the contract. Now in theory, the company has the now-ex employee over a barrel in relation to the contract. The employee then has to mount an expensive defense of a lawsuit he may well loose.

If I were advising this person, I would say that he or she has a duty to mitigate any loss under the contract, and if he contemplated quitting for the reason of mot being paid, he do so prior to, not after, the completion of training and qualification.

Very well stated Sir. At the same token, there has to be compliance with the schedule of pay and as such, a timeframe as viewed by the law to be justifiable for an employee in such circumstances to quit. Even if the person continues and receives credentials from trianing, that person is merely doing his/her job and what has been asked of him/her, whether it was flying the line or completing training?

 

[CitationUltra]

Very well stated Sir. At the same token, there has to be compliance with the schedule of pay and as such, a timeframe as viewed by the law to be justifiable for an employee in such circumstances to quit. Even if the person continues and receives credentials from trianing, that person is merely doing his/her job and what has been asked of him/her, whether it was flying the line or completing training?

Yes, I agree. My only caution is 1. Proceeding despite the non-payment and completing the training and qualification, thus acting to ratify the contract and accept the consideration, and; 2. Accepting payment, despite its being late, then making the argument that quitting was justifiable due to late payment.

If the employee has not been paid in accordance with the original deal and a reasonable time has elapsed, and just to be safe, the employee has brought the non-payment to the attention of the employer in writing, then he can quit, and likely prevail in the event that the employer files a follow-on action.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

Yes, I agree. My only caution is 1. Proceeding despite the non-payment and completing the training and qualification, thus acting to ratify the contract and accept the consideration, and; 2. Accepting payment, despite its being late, then making the argument that quitting was justifiable due to late payment.

If the employee has not been paid in accordance with the original deal and a reasonable time has elapsed, and just to be safe, the employee has brought the non-payment to the attention of the employer in writing, then he can quit, and likely prevail in the event that the employer files a follow-on action.

Please check you PM.

 

[sleepy]

I asked my lawyer wife about this. Of course she said she couldn't say without reading the contract. Generally, she said if you sign a contract that is valid (does not violate any state or federal laws) then you have an obligation to complete the terms of contract. If either party does not live up to the terms of the contract, then the other party can seek damages.

I signed a training contract for a job a long time ago. I got a better job and left the place after about 8 months. The company kept around $2000 that they owed me in salary (this was a freight job in a Navajo, not anything good). I had a lawyer friend write them a threatning letter and they decided to pay me. In exchange I signed an agreement to never sue them. I spent nothing on my attorney, they had to spend money on their attorney and pay me. Of course at the time they didn't know that I was not serious about filing a lawsuit. It just took a simple letter...........

I should point out that the mistake my employer made was in withholding my pay for the debt. This was against the law, and if had filed a lawsuit and won I could have gotten 3 times the amount in damages. What they should have done was pay me then sue me for the $2000.

If you cannot afford an attorney then try getting a free Legal Aid attorney to help you.

 

[NGT]

Aviation International News last month had an article on the outcome of the Flexjet lawsuit in regards to training contracts. In U.S. courts it sounds like they are not worth the paper they are printed on, especialy if you can show breach of contract by the employer. In Europe check the precedent of the Swiss Air pilots and thier loosing effort against training contracts.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

At this point in the game the question is if he should continue pursuing his pay and/or finish his training. Since the employer's failure to pay him or respond to any inquiries of his pay is a breach of the employment contract, it may be to his advantage to finish the type as an insurance in case these people do not pay him prior to his scheduled departure to the overseas assignment and then it would be make sense for him not to go at all. However, finishing the type course means that he is in violation of the training contract ~ how valid or enforceable this contract may be (as it is an overseas company and the person is US) is another issue.

But then again, who really wants to go work for someone halfway across the world when the gun is already half cocked...

 

[svcta]

All the advice above sounds good. I have nothing to add except that it seems to me that completing the training with the intention of leaving is suspect and only means that your friend has sunk to their level. Beyond that he/she is just asking for trouble with that move, too. Run, don't walk, from this situation NOW. The longer he/she is there the stronger the employers case becomes in my opinion.

Chalk it up to a mistake and move on. And in the future stay the he!! away from training contracts.

 

[cjdriver]

One thought here, you might consider using your position of strength (being able to quit training before completing it with little risk of liability) and asking the employer to make it right with you in regards to pay and work conditions, etc. Have them put it in a contract. They are now highly motivated to work with you. Short of this, I would bail before completing the training or you'll be on the hook for sure.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

One thought here, you might consider using your position of strength (being able to quit training before completing it with little risk of liability) and asking the employer to make it right with you in regards to pay and work conditions, etc. Have them put it in a contract. They are now highly motivated to work with you. Short of this, I would bail before completing the training or you'll be on the hook for sure.

The pay and pay schedule is in the employment contract. No response whatsoever in all my pay inquiries by phone or email in over 8 days. Since it is overseas it looks like it will be virtually impossible for me to collect my pay from them, which is now at half the cost of the training.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Could you not also make a case that the training expense is pro-rated to the point from which you went unpaid? In which case you might only be "on the hook" for the cost of the last few days of training. Perhaps you can complete and get the type for only a few thousand dollars and at least get something out of all that hard work.

 

[sleepy]

The pay and pay schedule is in the employment contract. No response whatsoever in all my pay inquiries by phone or email in over 8 days. Since it is overseas it looks like it will be virtually impossible for me to collect my pay from them, which is now at half the cost of the training.

I would just walk away from this. They are not going to spend the money to come after you in US courts for a training contract. It would cost them more in legal fees than it is worth. They won't pay you, they won't contact you, is this a place you want to work? If you do go to work for them in their country you will be subject to their laws. That doesn't sould like a place you want to be.

 

[svcta]

Seriously, it's time to come home. No matter what happens, you're not going to win if you play with these people. Get away quickly and call it an experience.