More 777 for DAL

[ACL65PILOT]

Delta inks deal with Boeing on March 20th to purchase additional 777LR's bringing total to 45 by 2015. I don't have any info on delivery shedule.

 

[Sedona16]

I was reading in between the lines of what was said by RA on the company website and it sounded like more 777's (see below) but havent seen any details.

Richard reports on an eventful week

March 24, 2008

Richard Anderson looked back on a week of significant events for Delta, including our announcement of two voluntary programs for employees, the delivery of our second Boeing 777-200LR aircraft, and a tornado that ripped through Atlanta disrupting spring break operations. He also discussed steps we’re taking to manage rapidly rising fuel costs. Richard recorded his weekly employee message from Seattle as he joined more than 150 specially invited employees in taking delivery of our second 777LR.
“Of course, we’re excited about bringing this airplane home and getting it in the system,” Richard said. “We’ll have six more new aircraft deliveries throughout the year, and ultimately on the 777-LR, we’ll have a number of additional deliveries over the course of the next three to five years, as that’s a very important airplane for our growth, particularly across the Pacific. In addition to lie-flat seats and enhanced in-flight entertainment for our passengers, they have increased cargo capability and are designed for tremendous fuel efficiency.”
Richard noted the two voluntary employee programs we announced last week  the 60-Point Retirement Program and the Early Out program  that are the result of rapid and record high increases in fuel costs and the weakening U.S. economy.
“Remember that these programs are completely voluntary,” Richard said. “We’ll put a lot of information out and make it available over the next several weeks, so anyone that’s eligible can learn about both of these programs. Our goal is to make certain that our reduction is all voluntary, so stay tuned to details and we’ll be sending things to your home that will lay out all of the options.”
Starting March 31 through April 14, a special DeltaNet site will offer detailed descriptions and FAQs for the two voluntary options.
Richard said we’re moving quickly on several fronts to manage the recent spike in fuel costs.
“This week we raised domestic fares systemwide by an additional $10 round trip to help offset the rising cost of fuel,” he said. “In addition, we will begin charging customers $25 to check a second bag in May. We’re anticipating that our fuel costs will increase by somewhere between $1-2 billion year-over-year, so we’re going to take steps to rapidly work to cover those costs. We’ve been fairly successful hedging fuel. We have 25% in the first quarter and, I believe, 41% in the second quarter, so we have a significant number of hedge gains, but that doesn’t offset the fact that we have a precipitous increase in fuel.”
Richard praised frontline employees who dealt with high passenger loads and severe weather, including a tornado in Atlanta, last weekend.
“Special thanks to all of you who worked the operation last weekend in Atlanta, especially the IROPS in the Atlanta area,” he said. “It was a tough weekend over the system. We had rain and thunderstorms in the Northeast throughout the Carolinas, fog in Cincinnati. So all of this with load factors in the mid 90’s. So everybody from Line Maintenance, ACS, In-Flight, Flight Ops, OCC, y’all did a great job in especially challenging weather with very high loads.”
You can call in to hear Richard’s latest message at 888-356-3971 or 404-773-7128 internationally. You can also listen online or read a complete transcript of the call on the CEO site on DeltaNet

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There is a lot of digging that you can do, but it does look like the larger numbers that were brought up here a few months ago by myself and a few others are proving true.
At 16-19 crews per airframe this is indeed good news for us.

 

[Sedona16]

There is a lot of digging that you can do, but it does look like the larger numbers that were brought up here a few months ago by myself and a few others are proving true.
At 16-19 crews per airframe this is indeed good news for us.

This is great news. Thats well over 1000 pilots beyond what has been discussed with potential 737/MD90 airframes over the next seven years.

 

[dtfl]

This is great news. Thats well over 1000 pilots beyond what has been discussed with potential 737/MD90 airframes over the next seven years.

Im not so sure we are getting the -90s. The rumor mil in the tng dept is no. China Eastern has a crew going thru tng now..maybe we should go ask?

 

[Sedona16]

Im not so sure we are getting the -90s. The rumor mil in the tng dept is no. China Eastern has a crew going thru tng now..maybe we should go ask?

Apparently we have options for over 60 737's. I'm not a huge fan of the MD anyway. If I had my druthers Delta would increase the deliveries of the 777's and 737's (757's are hard to find) until the next generation 737 replacement rolls around towards the end of the decade following this one. Also start filling the 100 seat position with something like the Bombardier geared fan jet in five years. Regionals should be swapping rj's for large turboprops by then.... fingers crossed.

All things being equal, steady growth on the international side through the next ten to fifteen years followed by heavy retirements would be much preferable to any merger. A northwest merger would have caused stagnation for many years on the low end of the delta seniority list while they jocky airplanes and pilots. The up to 100G equity would have been nice but beyond that there wasn't much in it for Delta pilots. Now lets focus on still getting some decent pay raises.

 

[dtfl]

Apparently we have options for over 60 737's. I'm not a huge fan of the MD anyway. If I had my druthers Delta would increase the deliveries of the 777's and 737's (757's are hard to find) until the next generation 737 replacement rolls around towards the end of the decade following this one. Also start filling the 100 seat position with something like the Bombardier geared fan jet in five years. Regionals should be swapping rj's for large turboprops by then.... fingers crossed.

Yeah but our MDs and those Mds are CHEAP.

Funny how things come full circle. In the late 90s the airlines were running from props...because they were slower and people were afraid. I cant tell you how many times people whined about the ATRs...its like they thought it was a frickin DC3 from 1944?!!?! They see a prop and freak.
Now that fuel is the issue....those ATRs and Q400s are perfect. Well, perfect-er.

 

[Meiguy]

Delta inks deal with Boeing on March 20th to purchase additional 777LR's bringing total to 45 by 2015. I don't have any info on delivery shedule.

Are those all firm orders. And if so, is this further proof that the NWA deal is dead. Has there been a press release for these yet or am I just behind the curve here.

 

[Sedona16]

Yeah but our MDs and those Mds are CHEAP.

Funny how things come full circle. In the late 90s the airlines were running from props...because they were slower and people were afraid. I cant tell you how many times people whined about the ATRs...its like they thought it was a frickin DC3 from 1944?!!?! They see a prop and freak.
Now that fuel is the issue....those ATRs and Q400s are perfect. Well, perfect-er.

Well the old adage you get what you pay for definately applies to turboprops making a resurgence. People want thirty dollar flights they get a "thirty dollar" airplane. They will still complain and think they should get salmon and starbucks on board but they will fly regardless if the price is right.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I have not seen an official announcement, but from the backwater channel it seems that many of those are firm.
It was also posted on our ALPA site. Not sure where he got his info from, but I did some checking as well. It seems that this is about as good as a rumor can get. I of course will not believe it until the rubber hits the runway.
There is no set delivery schedule as of yet, but I am sure that we will get that with the announcement.
I would assume that it could be a way to pressure NWA to a deal, but you never know what the financial types are up to. After all they are the ones who run this show.
As I get details I will post them....

 

[GogglesPisano]

Thanks for the scoop ACL65. :beer:

 

[Dizel8]

I think the ATR and the -8 are preferable to the RJ's. Personally, I prefer the increase in cabin size and the headroom, I find the RJ's excruciatingly cramped.

Flew on a Saab 2000 in EU, what a nice ride that was, shame it caught the end of the turboprops, since it was fast and comfortable.

Besides, the savings in time vs an RJ is small, particularily if the RJ is used as intended, on short routes. Spending 3 1/2 hours on an RJ seems like an eternity.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

At 16-19 crews per airframe this is indeed good news for us.

I think its 28 pilots per 777 airframe....not to nitpick..see below....

 

[Sedona16]

I think the ATR and the -8 are preferable to the RJ's. Personally, I prefer the increase in cabin size and the headroom, I find the RJ's excruciatingly cramped.

Flew on a Saab 2000 in EU, what a nice ride that was, shame it caught the end of the turboprops, since it was fast and comfortable.

Besides, the savings in time vs an RJ is small, particularily if the RJ is used as intended, on short routes. Spending 3 1/2 hours on an RJ seems like an eternity.

Thats no lie. I got DH on Skywest last week and forgot how cramped the RJ is inside the cabin. Ive also ridden Horizons Dashes and this was much nicer than a standard RJ. I also noticed this Skywest RJ smelled like a combination of urine, febreeze and bengay. Not pleasant.

 

[Sedona16]

GH at Delta is also pushing Boeing for more range to reach Australia and other cities.

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ing-to-squeeze-more-range-from-777-200lr.html

 

[MXAV8R]

I think its 28 pilots per 777 airframe....not to nitpick..see below....

Yeah...no...it is 16-19 CREWS per 777. Well at least according to the VP of Flight Ops.

 

[General Lee]

45 777LRs total by 2015? Isn't that when the first 787 will take flight? 2015?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[4got2flare]

Richard reports on an eventful week

March 24, 2008

Richard Anderson looked back on a week of significant events for Delta, including our announcement of two voluntary programs for employees, the delivery of our second Boeing 777-200LR aircraft, and a tornado that ripped through Atlanta disrupting spring break operations. He also discussed steps we’re taking to manage rapidly rising fuel costs. Richard recorded his weekly employee message from Seattle as he joined more than 150 specially invited employees in taking delivery of our second 777LR.
“Of course, we’re excited about bringing this airplane home and getting it in the system,” Richard said. “We’ll have six more new aircraft deliveries throughout the year, and ultimately on the 777-LR, we’ll have a number of additional deliveries over the course of the next three to five years, as that’s a very important airplane for our growth, particularly across the Pacific. In addition to lie-flat seats and enhanced in-flight entertainment for our passengers, they have increased cargo capability and are designed for tremendous fuel efficiency.”
Richard noted the two voluntary employee programs we announced last week  the 60-Point Retirement Program and the Early Out program  that are the result of rapid and record high increases in fuel costs and the weakening U.S. economy.
“Remember that these programs are completely voluntary,” Richard said. “We’ll put a lot of information out and make it available over the next several weeks, so anyone that’s eligible can learn about both of these programs. Our goal is to make certain that our reduction is all voluntary, so stay tuned to details and we’ll be sending things to your home that will lay out all of the options.”
Starting March 31 through April 14, a special DeltaNet site will offer detailed descriptions and FAQs for the two voluntary options.
Richard said we’re moving quickly on several fronts to manage the recent spike in fuel costs.
“This week we raised domestic fares systemwide by an additional $10 round trip to help offset the rising cost of fuel,” he said. “In addition, we will begin charging customers $25 to check a second bag in May. We’re anticipating that our fuel costs will increase by somewhere between $1-2 billion year-over-year, so we’re going to take steps to rapidly work to cover those costs. We’ve been fairly successful hedging fuel. We have 25% in the first quarter and, I believe, 41% in the second quarter, so we have a significant number of hedge gains, but that doesn’t offset the fact that we have a precipitous increase in fuel.”
Richard praised frontline employees who dealt with high passenger loads and severe weather, including a tornado in Atlanta, last weekend.
“Special thanks to all of you who worked the operation last weekend in Atlanta, especially the IROPS in the Atlanta area,” he said. “It was a tough weekend over the system. We had rain and thunderstorms in the Northeast throughout the Carolinas, fog in Cincinnati. So all of this with load factors in the mid 90’s. So everybody from Line Maintenance, ACS, In-Flight, Flight Ops, OCC, y’all did a great job in especially challenging weather with very high loads.”
You can call in to hear Richard’s latest message at 888-356-3971 or 404-773-7128 internationally. You can also listen online or read a complete transcript of the call on the CEO site on DeltaNet.

Well, here is yesterdays message and it does state 6 more aircraft. But where is the mystical 45 number come from??? Not Boeing, Not Delta, Not Yahoo, so where???

 

[IronCityBlue]

Is that 6 total additional deliveries this year, or 6 more triples? I thought between more triples, 737NG's and used 757's that the total delivery additions would exceed 6 for the rest of the year?

 

[IronCityBlue]

Well, here is yesterdays message and it does state 6 more aircraft. But where is the mystical 45 number come from??? Not Boeing, Not Delta, Not Yahoo, so where???

According to the Delta web site they say they have orders and options (plus the ones already in the fleet) to equal 39. However, the data is from December, 2007 so maybe this year orders/options were placed for 6 more? Not sure.

https://www.delta.com/about_delta/corporate_information/delta_stats_facts/aircraft_fleet/

 

[General Lee]

Is that 6 total additional deliveries this year, or 6 more triples? I thought between more triples, 737NG's and used 757's that the total delivery additions would exceed 6 for the rest of the year?

We got 2 LRs already this year, and get another on Dec 31st (so it is this year technically), and then 5 more before Mar 31st of 09, including 3 on March 31st itself. We get 6 737-700s this year (starting in June I think), with a current total order of 10 total. Richard Anderson stated in his "town hall" meeting after he got hired as CEO that we would get 20-25 737-700s total. We are almost done getting the 17 757ERs from AA (ex TWA planes built in the late 90s).


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IXLR8]

45 777LRs total by 2015? Isn't that when the first 787 will take flight? 2015?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Typical GL response...how did I know?..

 

[johnsonrod]

Time for Delta to kick some NWA a$$ in the Pacific. Of course, it might take some time to get some bilateral rights and slots... Whatever happened to the Pacific routes flown out of PDX on the MD11?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

We still have them, we are not utilizing them. To my knowledge they have not been sold.

 

[Papa Woody]

There is a lot of digging that you can do, but it does look like the larger numbers that were brought up here a few months ago by myself and a few others are proving true.
At 16-19 crews per airframe this is indeed good news for us.

Yes....at least some Delta pilots will be earning average SWA pay.

The rest?

 

[~~~^~~~]

I would assume that it could be a way to pressure NWA to a deal,....

ACL, thank you for your post.

I would disagree that this pressures NWA in any way. Management had already agreed on the stock swap & business successorship plans. The NWA pilots do not believe anything from any source - so this likely will not have any effect on them.

The 777LR makes Narita a "nice to have" and not a necessity as Delta simply flys over hubs with a more efficient aircraft and better service.

Delta can win in the market.

 

[JohnQ]

ACL, thank you for your post.

I would disagree that this pressures NWA in any way. Management had already agreed on the stock swap & business successorship plans. The NWA pilots do not believe anything from any source - so they can not look far enough down the road to see the threat.

The 777LR makes Narita a "nice to have" and not a necessity as Delta simply flys over their hub with more efficient aircraft and better service.

Delta can win in the market.

Don't count your chickens too soon. Hey, I'm DAL and hope that everything comes true just the way your optimistic post implies. But...

1. I won't believe a word of the "45 777s ordered" until I see the formal press release.

2. I won't believe we are actually flying the planes until they are painted in DAL colors flying paying pax.

3. NWA's NRT hub isn't just "nice to have." They have 5th freedom rights and perhaps more importantly, long-established corporate accounts, sales presences, and business relationships in Asia that will take us decades to build, even if we had 100 777s. Additionally, NWA has some of the smartest network guys in the industry, and they are the best at keeping the "cockroaches" (LCCs) out of their hubs. This from one of the former CAL (read, very bright) network guys now working for us.

That is why the merger COULD have been such a great thing.

 

[jrcpilot]

Time for Delta to kick some NWA a$$ in the Pacific. Of course, it might take some time to get some bilateral rights and slots... Whatever happened to the Pacific routes flown out of PDX on the MD11?

According to Network Management Director we have rights that can be exercised from Pan Am acquisition on some routes and others will have to be negotiated through the political and bilateral process.

 

[~~~^~~~]

John Q, you make excellent points. You are right about NWA's network and revenue folks. But, I do not see how this pressures NWA management in any way. For one thing, we will likely share code as we do now.

Delta has a lot of Pacific route authority unused that they got with Pan Am.

Delta can get new hires with good attitudes without longevity, or pay more for DTW and his pals while getting a obsolete, inefficient and disparate fleet. It is less expensive to grow internally.

 

[IronCityBlue]

John Q, you make excellent points. You are right about NWA's network and revenue folks. But, I do not see how this pressures NWA management in any way. For one thing, we will likely share code as we do now.

Delta has a lot of Pacific route authority unused that they got with Pan Am.

Delta can get new hires with good attitudes without longevity, or pay more for DTW and his pals while getting a obsolete, inefficient and disparate fleet. It is less expensive to grow internally.

While I agree with that in theory, I wonder about the Pan Am routes over the Pacific. Are they specific city pairs or how does that work? When Delta applied to get ATL-Shanghai it was far from automatic, and didn't a previous attempt at a China route get denied a year or two ago?

If its true that Delta can build up a meaningful Pacific presence on their own, that completely negates any reason to take on a massive merger and culture clash like an NWA merger would result in, especially when you consider the fleet type they would take on in the process.