Northwest to shrink and get rid of more DC9's than planned?

[Sedona16]

Dave Davis, Northwest's chief financial officer, said at a New York investor conference Tuesday that the run-up in fuel prices could push Northwest's 2008 fuel bill to $5.2 billion, about $800 million more than it had projected.

"We have a thorough review underway of our capacity right now, with a particularly hard look at domestic" flying, Davis said. In January, Northwest indicated that it would shrink domestic capacity by 5.5 to 6.5 percent this year. But Northwest CEO Doug Steenland said Sunday that, after the big jump in oil prices, "We have to rethink the size of the airline we operate."

 

[jke406]

shhhh...don't tell nwaredtail and his crack smoking buddies:

Now watch the result as you may see aircraft fleet reductions. Like the ones DAL just announced. NWA didn't announce any. Typical!

care to reconsider that arrogant statement, nwaredtail?

 

[Sedona16]

Some comments on the article from another message board:

Right now NW is evaluating the capacity for the balance of the year from Sept-December. It appears as if they there may be significant reductions at that point. NW was planning to park 35 DC-9-30's by the end of the year. It is expected that this timeline will be expedited.

NW pilots know very well that they are sitting ducks for significant cutbacks given the highly fuel inefficient nature of NW’s DC9s.

I have stated before and I’ll state again that it is the NW pilots who stand the most to lose if the deal falls through. They have the potential to get significant pay and benefit improvements and they also stand to lose the most if more capacity cuts are put in place; unlike DL which can shift capacity from domestic to int’l, NW has little ability to grow int’l capacity right now so whatever they cut on the domestic side will directly shrink the airline. Given that NW is already planning to shrink their airline, any further cuts will directly hit their pilots.

[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]Quoting (Reply 8):[/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]I see this as accelerating the retirement of the DC-9s at a faster rate with cuts needed.[/FONT]

you are right. Which is exactly why the NW pilots are still beating the merger bush. The Delta pilots want no part of a merger with an airline about to park a whole bunch of 35 year old airplanes.

 

[DTW320]

The Delta pilots want no part of a merger with an airline about to park a whole bunch of 35 year old airplanes.

Sure they do.....as long as it's the NWA guys exclusively on the bottom....Gee...something that the DALPA SLI position guaranteed! Who'd a thunk it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

.....and yet once again the "flowthrough" agreements are really just flowback agreements.....No thanks......

 

[Sedona16]

Personally, given the choice of being at DAL with Anderson at the helm as opposed to NWA with Steenland, its gotta be DAL all the way.

I talked to a DALPA rep again yesterday. The perks previously on the table to get this merger done are not being offered exactly the same now. In his words all of that has to be looked at again now with such high oil prices. That being said I see it as far fetched any Delta guys will bite at a NWA merger until NWA makes their reductions and see how all this looks in six or more months.

I could definately see a situation where Steenland "evens the playing field" to help the NWA guys "get their mind right".

I have to give credit to Anderson so far. I know his background and he can turn on employees just as quickly as the next greedy manager but so far he seems to be "leading" which is more than can be said for many other CEO's including Leo Mullen and dozens of others. Time will tell I guess.

 

[General Lee]

Some comments on the article from another message board:

Right now NW is evaluating the capacity for the balance of the year from Sept-December. It appears as if they there may be significant reductions at that point. NW was planning to park 35 DC-9-30's by the end of the year. It is expected that this timeline will be expedited.

NW pilots know very well that they are sitting ducks for significant cutbacks given the highly fuel inefficient nature of NW’s DC9s.

I have stated before and I’ll state again that it is the NW pilots who stand the most to lose if the deal falls through. They have the potential to get significant pay and benefit improvements and they also stand to lose the most if more capacity cuts are put in place; unlike DL which can shift capacity from domestic to int’l, NW has little ability to grow int’l capacity right now so whatever they cut on the domestic side will directly shrink the airline. Given that NW is already planning to shrink their airline, any further cuts will directly hit their pilots.

[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]Quoting (Reply 8):[/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]I see this as accelerating the retirement of the DC-9s at a faster rate with cuts needed.[/FONT]

you are right. Which is exactly why the NW pilots are still beating the merger bush. The Delta pilots want no part of a merger with an airline about to park a whole bunch of 35 year old airplanes.

No, I think you are totally wrong. Everything in NWA's world is perfect. Nothing will go wrong for those guys. NRT and the "huge" Asian presence will carry them through any bad times. They are "Tokyo's favorite airline" according to Diesel9's lady gate agent friend at NRT. They have super fuel efficient 787s coming online (in a couple years maybe). And, as they always state, their "financials" are FANTASTIC, especially compared to Delta which supposedly has a HUGE DEBT SERVICE DUE TOMORROW. Tomorrow. Why would they want to bring us on to share in their HUGE PROFITS thanks to their NRT hub? And, only "real men" can fly those DC9s, and they are paid for so they will be around forever.... So, why do they keep calling? No clue. (TIC)



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IXLR8]

Oh ! but wait..pretty soon someone will reply with the usual "you can fly your 787's WHEN YOU GET THEM" response...which seems to be a jab at the NWA guys, who have no control over Boeing. Everytime I see that response I think the person using it just cannot stand Boeing aircraft...or they just like to piss and moan all the time.
edit: see GL's respone above...very typical and used waaaaaaaaaaay too much.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

The Delta pilots want no part of a merger with an airline about to park a whole bunch of 35 year old airplanes.

In six months, NWA will be next to nothing!

Do you think Steeland will worry about downsizing? He will get a bonus for doing it.

Half the list will flowback to Compass. And the other half will retire within the next five years.

 

[Sedona16]

Oh ! but wait..pretty soon someone will reply with the usual "you can fly your 787's WHEN YOU GET THEM" response...which seems to be a jab at the NWA guys, who have no control over Boeing. Everytime I see that response I think the person using it just cannot stand Boeing aircraft...or they just like to piss and moan all the time.
edit: see GL's respone above...very typical and used waaaaaaaaaaay too much.

I think it is a legitimate arguement in light of the fact these potential deliveries keep getting pushed back further and further. If whats being said is true, NWA wont see any significant deliveries until 2011. Heres the latest from one of the few men in this industry who would know (he's also the guy most responsible for airbus completely changing their A350 design because he called them out on the old design) and his analysis is generally spot on:


By Christopher Hinton
Last update: 8:23 a.m. EDT March 19, 2008Print RSS Disable Live Quotes

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The first deliveries for Boeing Co.'s 787 Dreamliner aren't likely to occur before the end of September, 2009, according to Steven Udvar-Hazy, chairman and founder of the aircraft maker's largest customer, International Lease Finance Corp. In a J.P. Morgan presentation to investors on Tuesday, Udvar-Hazy said the 787 "power-on" isn't possible until June, with first [COLOR=red! important][FONT=ARIAL,][COLOR=red! important][FONT=ARIAL,]flight[/FONT][/FONT][/color][/color] occurring in the fall, followed by almost an additional year would be necessary for certification. Boeing has said has said it intends to "power on" the 787 at the end of first quarter, 2008, with first delvieries in early 2009. "Although we believe that another delivery delay is expected, Hazy's comments would seem to confirm investor concerns," J.P. Morgan said.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...0B7CB-4B96-41E7-A190-C944E66AB61A}

 

[~~~^~~~]

Sure they do.....as long as it's the NWA guys exclusively on the bottom....Gee...something that the DALPA SLI position guaranteed! Who'd a thunk it.

Well if NWA guys get furloughed when NWA aircraft are getting parked, isn't that fair?

Delta is still hiring to staff the 777's. Hopefully no one would have been furloughed. But, having DAL guys get displaced out of 767ER slots to the street by DC9 pilots wasn't equitable.

... and then the DC9 guys would be the first at the upgrades by using their dynamic super seniority while it takes the Delta new hires years to get back where they are now....

 

[Superpilot92]

Until something is announced this is all nothing more than "Opinion" in which i think is wrong. NWA already announced the retirement of some DC9s to keep the ship lean in the middle of the oil mess. IMHO those 68 DC9s will be around. Those planes are FULL and they aren't just going to give up those markets. We shall see. It is pretty typical to see that its DAL guys trying to spread BS "opinions" about NWA though

 

[~~~^~~~]

Superpilot....

You going to be eating crow my friend. The numbers on the DC9's are astonishingly bad.

 

[Superpilot92]

Superpilot....

You going to be eating crow my friend. The numbers on the DC9's are astonishingly bad.

Prove it. Also I find it humorous that a number of DAL guys seem to self appoint themselves as the NWA fleet department managers

 

[On Your Six]

Prove it. Also I find it humorous that a number of DAL guys seem to self appoint themselves as the NWA fleet department managers

Well, we know that Northwest's rubber band and scotch tape expense has been increasing recently. Something has to be used to keep those DC9s together...:laugh:

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm not a DAL fleet manager, but the 88's will be gone as soon as a suitable replacement is found and their numbers are at least 40% better than a DC9.

I would not make the claims you do on the 88's and they are a much better jet.

Some things are just that obvious.

 

[General Lee]

Well, we know that Northwest's rubber band and scotch tape expense has been increasing recently. Something has to be used to keep those DC9s together...:laugh:

Or they can go a certain LCC route and not inspect their older planes at all. Hey, it takes a "real man" to fly planes that could crack and fall apart.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jke406]

Those planes are FULL and they aren't just going to give up those markets. We shall see.

What you don't understand is that it doesn't matter how full they are.

With the price of oil this high, they are losing money even though they're full (if they are, in fact full). That's why they'll get parked.

I'll give you credit for your blind optimism, though.

 

[NuGuy]

Some comments on the article from another message board:

Right now NW is evaluating the capacity for the balance of the year from Sept-December. It appears as if they there may be significant reductions at that point. NW was planning to park 35 DC-9-30's by the end of the year. It is expected that this timeline will be expedited.

NW pilots know very well that they are sitting ducks for significant cutbacks given the highly fuel inefficient nature of NW’s DC9s.

I have stated before and I’ll state again that it is the NW pilots who stand the most to lose if the deal falls through. They have the potential to get significant pay and benefit improvements and they also stand to lose the most if more capacity cuts are put in place; unlike DL which can shift capacity from domestic to int’l, NW has little ability to grow int’l capacity right now so whatever they cut on the domestic side will directly shrink the airline. Given that NW is already planning to shrink their airline, any further cuts will directly hit their pilots.

[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]Quoting (Reply 8):[/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]I see this as accelerating the retirement of the DC-9s at a faster rate with cuts needed.[/FONT]

you are right. Which is exactly why the NW pilots are still beating the merger bush. The Delta pilots want no part of a merger with an airline about to park a whole bunch of 35 year old airplanes.

LOL...the VERY LAST place I would troll for people-in-the-know is Airliners.net. Way to pick a "winner".

Fact is, starting in May, NWA can't park any more DC-9s, or any narrowbodies for that matter, without parking 76 seaters.

Nu

 

[jke406]

Is there some reason you wouldn't park 76 seaters?

You guys have a serious case of denial if you don't think your airline's about to get smaller in the very near future.

it will be fairly entertaining to see your rationalizations if there are more reductions.

 

[Superpilot92]

What you don't understand is that it doesn't matter how full they are.

With the price of oil this high, they are losing money even though they're full (if they are, in fact full). That's why they'll get parked.

I'll give you credit for your blind optimism, though.

I will give you credit for your blind opinions on a subject which you aren't even a part of. You don't even work for either carrier yet you continue to post about this and continue to try and stir the pot. Good luck in "rehab"

 

[Sedona16]

LOL...the VERY LAST place I would troll for people-in-the-know is Airliners.net. Way to pick a "winner".

Fact is, starting in May, NWA can't park any more DC-9s, or any narrowbodies for that matter, without parking 76 seaters.

Nu

Hate to break the news but some people on that board as geeky as they are know more than all the pilots on this board combined about what is actually happening. You see, actual managers and people who work with decision makers post there. Here, with the exception of people like ACL65 and Occams Razor, who deal with people on the inside most are simply fungus growing under a tree:laugh:

 

[DTW320]

Hate to break the news but some people on that board as geeky as they are know more than all the pilots on this board combined about what is actually happening. You see, actual managers and people who work with decision makers post there. Here, with the exception of people like ACL65 and Occams Razor, who deal with people on the inside most are simply fungus growing under a tree:laugh:

I noticed you didn't include yourself in that list of people on the inside. So what does that make you?

 

[Max Powers]

Until something is announced this is all nothing more than "Opinion" in which i think is wrong. NWA already announced the retirement of some DC9s to keep the ship lean in the middle of the oil mess. IMHO those 68 DC9s will be around. Those planes are FULL and they aren't just going to give up those markets. We shall see. It is pretty typical to see that its DAL guys trying to spread BS "opinions" about NWA though

Mesaba and compass have options that could easily replaces those DC9s.....Yes, I think it stinks too. Less main line flying is bad for everyone. But NWA Union boys agreed and sold the scope ship to save the pension ship. You will now have to live with that. SENIOR GUYS WILL ALWAYS THROW JUNIOR GUYS UNDER THE BUS!!!!!!or at least almost always. And especially at Airline unions; where you have Hypocritical Cookie cutter suburbanite republicans who call the shots. We need to learn from the Europeans and Canadians.

 

[DTW320]

Mesaba and compass have options that could easily replaces those DC9s.....Yes I think it stinks too less main line flying is bad for everyone. But NWA Union boys agreed sold scope ship to save the pension. You will now have to live with that. SENIOR GUYS ALWAYS THROUGH JUNIOR GUYS UNDER BUS!!!!!!or at least almost always.

Sorry Max, you obviously haven't read or don't understand our scope clause.

 

[Max Powers]

Sorry Max, you obviously haven't read or don't understand our scope clause.

They'll just get you to make concessions by using the bankruptcy card.

 

[123]

In six months, NWA will be next to nothing!

Do you think Steeland will worry about downsizing? He will get a bonus for doing it.

Half the list will flowback to Compass. And the other half will retire within the next five years.

With the type of intelligence displayed above, your name appears to fit like a glove.

 

[Superpilot92]

Mesaba and compass have options that could easily replaces those DC9s.....Yes I think it stinks too less main line flying is bad for everyone. But NWA Union boys agreed sold scope ship to save the pension. You will now have to live with that. SENIOR GUYS ALWAYS THROUGH JUNIOR GUYS UNDER BUS!!!!!!or at least almost always.

You're wrong. Scope at NWA is still in tact and has almost reached the scope limit on the total number of regional jets that can fly as feeders for NWA. Once that limit is reached no more aircraft can go to a regional UNTIL NWA gets a NET INCREASE in aircraft. Not replacement-net increase.

 

[Sedona16]

I noticed you didn't include yourself in that list of people on the inside. So what does that make you?

With the exception of being a student of the industry, yes I am fungus under a tree as well I enjoy gathering intel from every source I can however and try to show source whenever possible. Most of what is written here however is opinions formed while trying to connect all the dots of what information is available.

 

[123]

Well if NWA guys get furloughed when NWA aircraft are getting parked, isn't that fair?

Delta is still hiring to staff the 777's...quote]


I thought that I had read somewhere that DAL was going to stop hiring now, with the possibility of starting again next fall/winter. Isn't there a posibility of displacements DAL with the parking of the 20 mainline aircraft (md88's and 757's)