Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

SWA sells junk B737 overseas and kills

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

luckytohaveajob

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Posts
1,114
AP
Insurers Settle Air Crash Suits
Monday March 17, 4:26 pm ET
By David Koenig, AP Business Writer
Insurers Settle Lawsuits Over Philippines Crash for $165 Million


Insurance companies have agreed to pay $165 million to settle lawsuits brought by relatives of those killed in a 2000 plane crash in the Philippines, lawyers for the families said.The families of about 100 of the 131 people killed in the crash sued the American companies that owned the plane and leased it to Air Philippines, accusing them of providing a worn-out plane in need of constant maintenance that the airline was incapable or unwilling to do.

The case, filed in state court in Chicago, was scheduled for trial in September but was settled in late February by Air Philippines' insurers, who negotiated on behalf of the plane's suppliers. Neither the American companies, Air Philippines nor the insurers admitted responsibility.
Donald J. Nolan, whose Chicago law firm took the lead in the case, said the amount of the settlement will improve safety in developing countries, where carriers often buy aging aircraft no longer wanted by U.S. airlines.
Nolan said after legal fees of about one-third the award, families will get on average more than $1 million each. The judge must still approve disbursements from a trust fund to individual families, which will receive varying awards.
The lawyer said Air Philippines offered families about $20,000 each.
The Air Philippines Boeing 737 that crashed was made in 1978 and operated for 20 years by Southwest Airlines Co., which faces a $10.2 million fine by U.S. regulators for flying 737s without making required inspections for cracks in the fuselages.
Lawyers said the plane had cracks and a faulty altimeter when it was delivered to Air Philippines, but they did not sue Southwest because it had no role in selling the jet to the foreign carrier.
The plane was purchased in 1998 by AAR Corp., an Illinois-based company that sells aircraft parts and leases planes to some of the world's largest carriers. AAR leased the plane to Air Philippines and then sold the plane and the lease to Fleet Business Credit Corp., which is now a subsidiary of Bank of America Corp.
AAR "did some cosmetic work, didn't do a (heavy-maintenance) 'D' check ... and shipped it out to the Philippines," said Gerald C. Sterns, an aviation lawyer in Oakland, Calif., who also represented some of the families. "They are in the business of providing cheap aircraft to lease."
In 1999, AAR obtained an airworthiness certificate from the Federal Aviation Administration judging the planes sound enough to export to that country.
While on a commuter flight from Manila to Davao in the Philippines in April 2000, the plane crashed into the side of a hill as the pilot made a second attempt to land on the runway. All 124 passengers and seven crew members were killed.
A commission appointed by the president of the Philippines blamed the crash on pilot error and found no evidence of mechanical failure. But lawyers for the families said no one will ever know what caused the crash because parts of the mangled plane were dumped in a pit and buried in concrete before they could be examined by independent experts.
David P. Storch, the chairman and chief executive of AAR, said the burial of the plane probably played a role in the insurance companies' decision to settle. "I believe they felt they had a problem with what the Philippines authorities had done with the aircraft," he said.
But Storch defended his company's overhaul of the plane and the lease to Air Philippines.
"We delivered a very good aircraft in good working condition to a very good airline," he said. "Unfortunately, this aircraft had an accident because the pilot got in some clouds and got disoriented."
Gary W. Westerberg, a lawyer for the London insurers, said his clients settled because of court rulings that AAR and Fleet controlled documents, witnesses and disposal of the wreckage. The companies also also failed in an effort to try the lawsuits in the Philippines.
Nolan and Sterns said companies such as AAR that buy planes and lease them to foreign airlines will face higher insurance premiums as a result of the settlement.
But Storch, the AAR chief executive, said the settlement won't have any financial impact on his company, which he said was indemnified for its costs by Air Philippines' insurers. He also said the case won't deter AAR from leasing planes to customers that include British Airways, UAL Corp.'s United Airlines and Continental Airlines Inc.
"We have an impeccable safety record," Storch said.
 
Southwest Airlines Selects AAR for 737 Maintenance




WOOD DALE, Ill., Dec. 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AAR (NYSE: AIR) today announced that it has been selected by Southwest Airlines to perform heavy maintenance services and winglet installations for the airline's Boeing 737 aircraft. The work will be performed at AAR Aircraft Services - Indianapolis, the Company's state-of-the-art maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) operation located at Indianapolis International Airport.

According to the three-year agreement, AAR will operate one line of nose- to-tail heavy maintenance checks starting in January 2007. The winglet installation will include two nose-to-tail lines, each operating for 16-18 months starting in January 2007.
"Southwest has a world-class reputation for operating efficiently and providing outstanding customer service," said David P. Storch, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of AAR CORP. "We're looking forward to leveraging our experience and capabilities with the Boeing 737 platform to enable Southwest to further strengthen its industry-leading position and maintain its competitive edge."
AAR offers a wide range of maintenance, repair and overhaul services, including airframe maintenance and modifications, through its aircraft maintenance facilities located in Indianapolis and Oklahoma City. Both facilities are located along Southwest Airlines' route network. For each of the past two years, every one of AAR's eligible maintenance facilities earned the FAA's Diamond Award, the highest honor in the FAA's Aviation Maintenance Technician Awards Program, which recognizes companies for excellence in technical and regulatory training.
AAR is a leading provider of products and value-added services to the worldwide aviation/aerospace industry. With facilities and sales locations around the world, AAR uses its close-to-the-customer business model to serve airline and defense customers through four operating segments: Aviation Supply Chain; Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul; Structures and Systems and Aircraft Sales and Leasing. More information can be found at http://www.aarcorp.com/.
Southwest Airlines, the nation's largest carrier in terms of domestic passengers enplaned, currently serves 63 cities in 32 states. Based in Dallas, Southwest currently operates more than 3,100 flights a day and has more than 32,000 employees systemwide.
 
"maintain its competitive edge"-- this is code for undercut with predatory pricing

leading provider of products and value-added services to the worldwide aviation/aerospace industry --- this is code for we know it needs to be done but we can get away with it for another 45,000 cycles without doing it until we sell it to those stupid foreigners.
 
Come on, this is a chicken$h!t post.

SWA and AAR did a "pre-buy" as should have PAL. You want to find blame, look at the Third World airlines (including the mainland China airlines) out there who don't do mx and don't adhere to their FAR's.

Their inspectors are, for the most part, either bought off by the airline or incompetent (their only qualification for the position being their uncle in the government).

Absent a connection to the U.S., there would be no lawsuit. Try suing China Eastern when the MD90's you buy are trashed...

You want to beat up SWA? There's plenty of stuff out there but this doesn't qualify. TC
 
Luckytohaveajob, I put you on my ignore list, and now I remember why.

... "but they did not sue Southwest because it had no role in selling the jet to the foreign carrier."


You only have to lift the mat to find the dirt at any airline.
 
Come on, this is a chicken$h!t post.

SWA and AAR did a "pre-buy" as should have PAL. You want to find blame, look at the Third World airlines (including the mainland China airlines) out there who don't do mx and don't adhere to their FAR's.

Their inspectors are, for the most part, either bought off by the airline or incompetent (their only qualification for the position being their uncle in the government).

Absent a connection to the U.S., there would be no lawsuit. Try suing China Eastern when the MD90's you buy are trashed...

You want to beat up SWA? There's plenty of stuff out there but this doesn't qualify. TC

Say that to the families of the victims.

The only thing chickensh!t is SWA selling its worn out, poorly maintained junk to unsuspecting innocences who fall victim to America's most predatory airline.

If the airplane is worn out and useless SCRAPE it, don't paint it up pretty and sell it. That type of behavior is just as unethical as selling a junk car to a dumb teenager who will kill himself while you know the brakes are bad.
 
Last edited:
Luckytohaveajob, I put you on my ignore list, and now I remember why.

... "but they did not sue Southwest because it had no role in selling the jet to the foreign carrier."


You only have to lift the mat to find the dirt at any airline.

Thanks, I am flattered to be on your list. Sorry, I could careless about you though.

"but they did not sue Southwest because it had no role in selling the jet to the foreign carrier."--

SWA owned the airplane since new and flew it for 20 years. SWA was culpable whether or not SWA was legally involved.
 
Say that to the families of the victims.

The only thing chickensh!t is SWA selling its worn out, poorly maintained junk to unsuspecting innocences who fall victim to America's most predatory airline.

If the airplane is worn out and useless SCRAPE it, don't paint it up pretty and sell it. That type of behavior is just as unethical as selling a junk car to a dumb teenager who will kill himself while you know the brakes are bad.

i think they usually do scrape it before putting new paint on it.

sounds like they are trying to scrape up some blame for CFIT.

i could scrape up a few more examples if you like.
 
hey lucky, if you feel this way about SWA selling junk, please place a full page ad in the USA Today, Wall St. Journal, and such expressing your feelings. At the bottom, sign your real name and location so SWA can send their lawyers to sue you for slander. Dumba$$.

Please deal in facts.
 
You want to beat up SWA? There's plenty of stuff out there but this doesn't qualify. TC

I agree.
My own airline, United, has lowered their maintenance standards by dumping most of our inhouse maintenance and contracting it out. All to save a buck.
 
Somebody please pass that popcorn ... yeah and the butter too.
 
Except this isn't you selling a dangerous car to a teenager. This is turning in your leased car back to the dealer with worn out brakes.

The dealer is expected to fix it before they sell it. Not your fault, not SWA's fault.

Duh.
 
If Southwest Airlines was required to equip Philippino airfields with navaids and train Air Philippine crews in VOR approaches, only then can I agree with your premise that WN is "culpable".

While the cause has never been definitively determined (probably because the wreckage was hastily buried in concrete), I don't think 20 years of Texas Two Step had anything to do with it.

Sorry to let facts get in the way of your smear attempt.

From CNN.com:

Investigators probe weather conditions

Just before the crash, officials say the pilot contacted the control tower and reported visibility problems, CNN reported. Mercado said authorities are trying to determine weather conditions at the time of the crash, including the amount of cloud cover.
Controllers said the Davao airport does not have equipment for instrument landings.
The air force and rescue officials were alerted after the pilot's communication. The plane crashed into a coconut grove on the mountainous Samal Island while preparing to make another approach, the controllers said. Wreckage of the plane was sighted at about 7.25 a.m., a recovery official told Reuters

From Aviation-Safety.net:

Accident description
brownbar.gif

languages:
Status:preliminaryDate:19 APR 2000Time:ca 07:00Type:Boeing 737-2H4Operator:Air PhilippinesRegistration:RP-C3010C/n / msn:21447/508First flight:1978-01-19 Total airframe hrs:68475Cycles:79522Engines:2 Pratt & Whitney JT8D-9ACrew:Fatalities: 7 / Occupants: 7Passengers:Fatalities: 124 / Occupants: 124Total:Fatalities: 131 / Occupants: 131 Airplane damage:Written offLocation:6,5 km (4.1 mls) from Davao (Philippines) Phase:ApproachNature:Domestic Scheduled PassengerDeparture airport:Manila-Ninoy Aquino International Airport (MNL/RPLL), PhilippinesDestination airport:Davao City-Francisco Bangoy International Airport (DVO/RPMD), PhilippinesFlightnumber:541Narrative:
Air Philippines Flight 541 left Manila at 05:21 a.m. and was due to land at Davao around 06:45. At 06:56, while approaching Davao, the crew were told to discontinue the ILS runway 05 approach because of traffic on the runway (probably Philippine Airlines flight 809 which had just landed). A request to carry out a VOR/DME approach and landing in the opposite direction (runway 23) was approved by ATC. Last radio contact was at 07:01 when the pilot reported 7 miles out. Nothing more was heard from the flight when ATC tried to clear the flight to land around 07:03. The Boeing slammed into a coconut plantation in Mt. Kalangan, Sitio Camanlangan in Barangay San Isidro, disintegrated and caught fire. The accident site is around 500 feet above sea level; at that point the altitude of the aircraft should have been 1500 feet.
Weather was said to have been fair with a low cloud ceiling for Davao.


Sources:
» AP
» ICAO Adrep
» Mark Stephenson, Peter Frei
» Philippine Daily Inquirer
» The Philippine STAR
 
SWA owned the airplane since new and flew it for 20 years. SWA was culpable whether or not SWA was legally involved.

Did they teach you that in law school? The aircraft crashed because the crew was unable to properly execute a non-precision approach in bad weather. The probable cause had nothing to do with the airplane and even if it had, WN no longer owned it or was responsible.

Let me take a guess. you're some guy with 10,000 hours of Microsoft FS time, a student pilot certificate and a bunch of free time on your hands.

Your amazing powers of deductive reasoning have seized upon some unrelated Southwest story involving negligence involving inspections and have somehow connected that to a completely different accident, simply because Southwest once owned the airplane?

Pretty clever, dude. You should start your own think tank.:rolleyes:
 
Pretty clever, dude. You should start your own think tank.:rolleyes:

That pretty much sums it up. It's pretty hard to find the connection between SW and a dip$hit crew flying for a second-rate third world airline without mental capacities far beyond those possessed by the vast majority of us.
 
That pretty much sums it up. It's pretty hard to find the connection between SW and a dip$hit crew flying for a second-rate third world airline without mental capacities far beyond those possessed by the vast majority of us.
I wonder, did the roof come off, turn into a convertible? Bottom line is no one knows, the remains are buried in concrete. Fault unknown. Maybe you can join the "think tank" too!
PBR
 
I wonder, did the roof come off, turn into a convertible? Bottom line is no one knows, the remains are buried in concrete. Fault unknown. Maybe you can join the "think tank" too!
PBR

I'm pretty sure that the roof came off when the crew flew it into the side of a mountain a thousand feet below where they should have been on the approach. The airline was described by the plaintiff's attorneys as an "under-funded and unsafe start-up airline." Maybe you'd care to enlighten me as to where SW's responsibility for the accident lies.
 
Last edited:
AP
Insurers Settle Air Crash Suits
Monday March 17, 4:26 pm ET
By David Koenig, AP Business Writer
Insurers Settle Lawsuits Over Philippines Crash for $165 Million


Insurance companies have agreed to pay $165 million to settle lawsuits brought by relatives of those killed in a 2000 plane crash in the Philippines, lawyers for the families said.The families of about 100 of the 131 people killed in the crash sued the American companies that owned the plane and leased it to Air Philippines, accusing them of providing a worn-out plane in need of constant maintenance that the airline was incapable or unwilling to do.

The case, filed in state court in Chicago, was scheduled for trial in September but was settled in late February by Air Philippines' insurers, who negotiated on behalf of the plane's suppliers. Neither the American companies, Air Philippines nor the insurers admitted responsibility.
Donald J. Nolan, whose Chicago law firm took the lead in the case, said the amount of the settlement will improve safety in developing countries, where carriers often buy aging aircraft no longer wanted by U.S. airlines.
Nolan said after legal fees of about one-third the award, families will get on average more than $1 million each. The judge must still approve disbursements from a trust fund to individual families, which will receive varying awards.
The lawyer said Air Philippines offered families about $20,000 each.
The Air Philippines Boeing 737 that crashed was made in 1978 and operated for 20 years by Southwest Airlines Co., which faces a $10.2 million fine by U.S. regulators for flying 737s without making required inspections for cracks in the fuselages.
Lawyers said the plane had cracks and a faulty altimeter when it was delivered to Air Philippines, but they did not sue Southwest because it had no role in selling the jet to the foreign carrier.
The plane was purchased in 1998 by AAR Corp., an Illinois-based company that sells aircraft parts and leases planes to some of the world's largest carriers. AAR leased the plane to Air Philippines and then sold the plane and the lease to Fleet Business Credit Corp., which is now a subsidiary of Bank of America Corp.
AAR "did some cosmetic work, didn't do a (heavy-maintenance) 'D' check ... and shipped it out to the Philippines," said Gerald C. Sterns, an aviation lawyer in Oakland, Calif., who also represented some of the families. "They are in the business of providing cheap aircraft to lease."
In 1999, AAR obtained an airworthiness certificate from the Federal Aviation Administration judging the planes sound enough to export to that country.
While on a commuter flight from Manila to Davao in the Philippines in April 2000, the plane crashed into the side of a hill as the pilot made a second attempt to land on the runway. All 124 passengers and seven crew members were killed.
A commission appointed by the president of the Philippines blamed the crash on pilot error and found no evidence of mechanical failure. But lawyers for the families said no one will ever know what caused the crash because parts of the mangled plane were dumped in a pit and buried in concrete before they could be examined by independent experts.
David P. Storch, the chairman and chief executive of AAR, said the burial of the plane probably played a role in the insurance companies' decision to settle. "I believe they felt they had a problem with what the Philippines authorities had done with the aircraft," he said.
But Storch defended his company's overhaul of the plane and the lease to Air Philippines.
"We delivered a very good aircraft in good working condition to a very good airline," he said. "Unfortunately, this aircraft had an accident because the pilot got in some clouds and got disoriented."
Gary W. Westerberg, a lawyer for the London insurers, said his clients settled because of court rulings that AAR and Fleet controlled documents, witnesses and disposal of the wreckage. The companies also also failed in an effort to try the lawsuits in the Philippines.
Nolan and Sterns said companies such as AAR that buy planes and lease them to foreign airlines will face higher insurance premiums as a result of the settlement.
But Storch, the AAR chief executive, said the settlement won't have any financial impact on his company, which he said was indemnified for its costs by Air Philippines' insurers. He also said the case won't deter AAR from leasing planes to customers that include British Airways, UAL Corp.'s United Airlines and Continental Airlines Inc.
"We have an impeccable safety record," Storch said.


you just took over the "lamest post of the year".

well done.

so, if someone sells a 25 yr old King Air, Lear, Dc-9 or 747 overseas & they crash it into a mountain, is it the still the fault of the previous operator?

How about if Boeing sells a brand new 73 & said overseas operator flies that into the ground? not so much, eh?
 
Last edited:

Latest resources

Back
Top