Emirates: Pay And Expenses During Training

[AT7^DRIVER]

Just curious if anyone out there knows whether you're paid during training? What is the pay? Lodging and per diem during training? How long is training? Anyone move to Dubai with wife and kids?

Thanks.

 

[Buford]

You are paid your normal base salary the moment you set foot in Dubai. There is no per diem. Lodging is also provided immediately for you. You will be picked up by a driver when you airline into DXB who will hand you the keys to your new place and you will spend your first night in your new home. There is a shortage of pilot villas at the moment (and occasionally shortages of apartments as well) so you may be given temporary accomodation at a long stay type hotel until something frees up. Training took me four months from start until final line check. I think it might takes new guys even longer these days for lack of trainers and sim availability. I would recommend leaving the wife and kids at home until you are nearly finished with training. It's a very busy time- you are learning a new aircraft as well as buying furniture, setting up bank accounts, organizing a car, etc etc.

 

[AT7^DRIVER]

Thankyou for the info. Been thinking about Emirates for a while now.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Is it easy for the wives of expats to find jobs in Dubai?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I'm not sure about the Emirates spouse-job thing, but this is general situation in Dubai.

>100K British have now moved to Dubai, and they outnumber the locals. They have re-colonized Dubai and taken over by default.

ALL types of professionals have moved to Dubai to work-Doctors, nurses, lawyers, architects, accounts, engineers, etc., etc.

They can NOT fill their needs with locals, so they are recruiting all over the place. I think Emirates has workers from over 70 countries, and it is a mirror of Dubai.

Good luck!

cliff
INT

 

[AA717driver]

Leave the wife/family home till you're nearly done with training because I'll need to buy furniture and set up bank accounts?

That's EXACTLY why I would HAVE to take them. TC

 

[PITA]

Just wait

Just wait till she gets here because she will NOT like the crap they give us, and it is not worth the money they take away from you to get it.

Bring/buy your own stuff, and take the allowance.
Then don't look back

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Leave the wife/family home till you're nearly done with training because I'll need to buy furniture and set up bank accounts?

That's EXACTLY why I would HAVE to take them. TC

That's exactually what I was thinkting TC! Hey bro it was good talking to you yesterday, sorry I had to run but you know how it is had to move the metal for scareways...

WD aka A320PLT

 

[colejer]

Training Pay

Training Pay is your base salary which is around 5,600 US dollars a month. I finished training on Christmas day, it took 3 and a half months of training. However I was the first done with training in my class some of the other guys took over 4 months. Upon arrival you can get up to 50 percent of your first months pay within a week, which was taken out of my second pay check. You get paid once a month. Most people leave thier family at home, out of the 9 people in my class of which everyone was married except me, 2 people brought thier family from day one and most of the rest of the guys family came two months into training. Hope this helps.

Jeremy

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Training Pay is your base salary which is around 5,600 US dollars a month. I finished training on Christmas day, it took 3 and a half months of training. However I was the first done with training in my class some of the other guys took over 4 months. Upon arrival you can get up to 50 percent of your first months pay within a week, which was taken out of my second pay check. You get paid once a month. Most people leave thier family at home, out of the 9 people in my class of which everyone was married except me, 2 people brought thier family from day one and most of the rest of the guys family came two months into training. Hope this helps.

Jeremy

Good info Jeremy, how was the training and how did it compare to other carriers you've worked for?

WD

 

[AA717driver]

WD--Ok, now I get it...

Gotta get back to work filling out the app.

PITA or Buford: Did you ship any furniture over (we've got some family stuff we'd like to keep with us) and how is it done?

BTW, thanks to all the EK guys for giving us the straight info. Typhoon has been here helping in that respect for a long time but it's nice to have other's voices too. TC

 

[PITA]

moving

deleted

 

[PITA]

moving

My wife set up the move from the states, and we moved our furniture and a car in a 40ft container.
We had no problems and got everything here without a scratch or breakage. It was of course insured and cost us about $14000 USD to send over.
Once here, the moving company gave me the car that day, and delivered and unpacked the furniture in the house the next.
Very impressed with handling on this end.

I have had some other friends who sent things over and had their container "lost" for about 2 weeks, but eventually got everything together.
Be prepared for things being done in a different way than what you know from the states.

Use a reputable shipper and make your life that much easier. There will be plenty of stress just dealing with the new environment.

Good luck in what ever you do.

If you need more info, I will ask the wife for the names of the movers.

Pita

 

[colejer]

Good info Jeremy, how was the training and how did it compare to other carriers you've worked for?

WD

Training you will find very different form the US. My personal opinion was that it was the worst training I have received to date. Of course that might be because I was my own trainer for most of the training. 777 systems is computer based training and that's it. No instructor or class to talk about the systems afterwards. Cockpit Procedure trainer was good, but you are expected to not look at the book by the second lesson, ie you are supposed to know every flow by the second session. Sim was good. Training can be summed up as checking and not training. You are graded after every training session which puts a ton of pressure on you. However I have heard that it is changing to actual training and the grading system is going away. I was told that from the time we had gone through training compared to six months earlier it had gotten a ton better. I was also told that Emirates thought process is that if you teach yourself you will remember it more. That said everyone makes it through, it's just very different. If you are intrested in Emirates look up a thread "Facts and Opinions on Emirates Airlines" in the majors thread. It has a lot of good info.

 

[AA717driver]

coljer--Thanks! That's the info I got from a guy on the AB fleet. Self taught but ok.

PITA--If we go through with this and I get hired, we'll definitely check with your wife. Thanks! TC

 

[johnsonrod]

My wife set up the move from the states, and we moved our furniture and a car in a 40ft container.
We had no problems and got everything here without a scratch or breakage. It was of course insured and cost us about $14000 USD to send over.
Once here, the moving company gave me the car that day, and delivered and unpacked the furniture in the house the next.
Very impressed with handling on this end.

I have had some other friends who sent things over and had their container "lost" for about 2 weeks, but eventually got everything together.
Be prepared for things being done in a different way than what you know from the states.

Use a reputable shipper and make your life that much easier. There will be plenty of stress just dealing with the new environment.

Good luck in what ever you do.

If you need more info, I will ask the wife for the names of the movers.

Pita

OK, a few questions for you or anyone else familiar:

1. What are your initial impressions of living in Dubai in general and the pilots' community (villas) in particular?


2. Will newhires ever be placed directly onto the A380? Is that likely? As 777 pilots, what is the likelihood that you can bid over to the A380 as that fleet ramps up or would only Airbus pilots get that opportunity?

 

[Gillegan]

For the folks contemplating a move to Emirates, you need to be aware that the company has just unilaterally altered our conditions of employment by announcing that pilots will now be limited to 14 days off in any month (regardless of long haul/short haul flying) and 6 days off in a row. This combined with a ruling that despite a contract that allows for 42 days of leave a year, we really are only entitled to 30 days. Given that we can only take 21 days at a time during peak times (summer/Christmas), this means that you will be lucky to get back home twice a year and one of those times, good luck because you will either have to buy a ticket or travel space available.

Speculation if rife on exactly why they are doing this but among the more plausible explanations is the need to once again increase productivity (more flying for same pay) and to discourage commuting (with more and more long haul flying, more and more pilots have been spending more and more time away from Dubai). What this does mean for you is if you come here, you better really like Dubai because you (or at least your family) is going to be spending a lot of time here.

 

[PITA]

Time off

This" "NEW" time off policy has created more talk amongst the pilot group here at EK than anything else I can think of in my short tenure here.

For those of you from N. America thinking about Emirates, look long and hard, and read what has been said here and on the other threads about the conditions you can expect to encounter.

I offer no additional info, as much already has been said by Gilligan and Typhoonpilot, who have been here longer than me.

It does seem that our "conditions" of employment are being constantly eroded, and it does make a difference in the end, because home is a long way from Dubai.

You roll your dice, and take your chances.

 

[PilotChapin]

For the folks contemplating a move to Emirates, you need to be aware that the company has just unilaterally altered our conditions of employment by announcing that pilots will now be limited to 14 days off in any month (regardless of long haul/short haul flying) and 6 days off in a row. This combined with a ruling that despite a contract that allows for 42 days of leave a year, we really are only entitled to 30 days. Given that we can only take 21 days at a time during peak times (summer/Christmas), this means that you will be lucky to get back home twice a year and one of those times, good luck because you will either have to buy a ticket or travel space available.

Speculation if rife on exactly why they are doing this but among the more plausible explanations is the need to once again increase productivity (more flying for same pay) and to discourage commuting (with more and more long haul flying, more and more pilots have been spending more and more time away from Dubai). What this does mean for you is if you come here, you better really like Dubai because you (or at least your family) is going to be spending a lot of time here.

I swear to God man, are any of you ever really happy? Geesh man, you're making people aware of only having 14 days off? really ? 14 days off is to little for you?

 

[PilotChapin]

This" "NEW" time off policy has created more talk amongst the pilot group here at EK than anything else I can think of in my short tenure here.

For those of you from N. America thinking about Emirates, look long and hard, and read what has been said here and on the other threads about the conditions you can expect to encounter.

I offer no additional info, as much already has been said by Gilligan and Typhoonpilot, who have been here longer than me.

It does seem that our "conditions" of employment are being constantly eroded, and it does make a difference in the end, because home is a long way from Dubai.

You roll your dice, and take your chances.

It's funny I talk to a few friends of mine that flew for other foreign carriers and although they have made mention of these recent changes, they are still happy b/c they are getting paid very good money. Their families are taken care of, and they get to fly some great equipment.
Anytime I hear/read complaint it has to come from lazzy a$$ white boys. I really do think we (North Americans) complain, and cry to much. A bunch of spoiled brats we are.

 

[Flybet3]

It's funny I talk to a few friends of mine that flew for other foreign carriers and although they have made mention of these recent changes, they are still happy b/c they are getting paid very good money. Their families are taken care of, and they get to fly some great equipment.
Anytime I hear/read complaint it has to come from lazzy a$$ white boys. I really do think we (North Americans) complain, and cry to much. A bunch of spoiled brats we are.

No doubt. Emirates offers what no U.S Carrier offers.

 

[Gillegan]

I swear to God man, are any of you ever really happy? Geesh man, you're making people aware of only having 14 days off? really ? 14 days off is to little for you?

Hey, I just want guys to make an informed decision. I am very aware that "everything is relative" to what you have now. I am also very aware that the ability to get home now and again is very important to SOME North Americans who are considering coming here. I've been here a while and a lot of guys who have joined in the last few years really had no idea what they were getting themselves into. They took a snapshot and said "that's okay for me". Well things often change here (and other places) and a lot of guys are not happy with the recent changes and would have made a different decision if they had known about them. As far as 14 days off, I suggest you take a little deeper read of what they have actually done to guys rosters and how they have done it. The truth is that this company is making record profits and at the same time is running the flight operation into the ground. But hey, I guess that you've seen it all so no sense in spoiling it with a little information.
Hey, if you're okay with that, fine. Jump in, the water's warm. Sounds like you're their kind of guy.

 

[typhoonpilot]

The personal attacks have started. Welcome to the real FlightInfo uke: . Now you see why we started the other site.


TP

 

[AA717driver]

Chapin--Everyone has to make their own decision. If you come from Air Afrique or any of the Chinese airlines, a whole lot of jobs will look good to you.

Frankly, I've talked to every EK guy (or applicant) I can get my hands on and I appreciate an unvarnished look at life at EK.

After 20 years in this business, I've had enough sunshine blown up my skirt already. If you're not smart enough to take all the comments and average them (getting to know the individuals in the process) you deserve to be "surprised".

Typhoon has been tireless in providing information over the past 4 years or so. The other guys here are providing a valuable service posting their take on things. Between pprune, the people I've talked to and Gillegan/PITA, et al, I've gotten a pretty clear picture of life at EK.

And I still can't make a decision... TC

 

[PITA]

Oh well

It's funny I talk to a few friends of mine that flew for other foreign carriers and although they have made mention of these recent changes, they are still happy b/c they are getting paid very good money. Their families are taken care of, and they get to fly some great equipment.
Anytime I hear/read complaint it has to come from lazzy a$$ white boys. I really do think we (North Americans) complain, and cry to much. A bunch of spoiled brats we are.

Opinions are like As$holes.........everyone has one

 

[Regional4life]

OK, a few questions for you or anyone else familiar:

1. What are your initial impressions of living in Dubai in general and the pilots' community (villas) in particular?


2. Will newhires ever be placed directly onto the A380? Is that likely? As 777 pilots, what is the likelihood that you can bid over to the A380 as that fleet ramps up or would only Airbus pilots get that opportunity?

1. Villas are fairly nice. Construction standards/codes are not what they are in the states. 3 or 4 bedroom, plus maid quarters (which are small) depending on where you at. I've seen maids live in the maids quarters and I've seen lots of folks make them into offices. All in all, fairly roomy. I'm in Silicon Oasis and rather like it. Kids love it. They can play outside (front and back yard) with no worries what so ever. They go to the pool when it's open. It's a close community and everyone here (in DSO) has been very helpful and watches out for each other. 20 to 30 minutes to the beach, depending on traffic.

2. Yes, they will do new hires into the A380. I would imagine after the first couple of years, 777 CA's will have the opportunity to transfer to the A380 after serving the required six years in seat. No official word (that I know of) but that's my guess.

Just my two cents on the limited days off concern (and please take it with a grain of salt). The statement from management was "we will try to limit max days off to 14" (or something similiar to that). IMHO, it doesn't mean it will happen all the time, especially in the top bid groups where they have said they will not manually insert or rearrange schedules. If you are awarded 2 ULR flights and a PER/ICN etc (which happens in the top two groups), I see where it would be hard pressed to take a guy down to 14 days off (without manually "messing" with his schedule). Obviously, it will happen for third and fourth bid groups. The new policy gets implemented next month, so we will see just how it works out.

A lot of the European flights get back just after midnight, so your next day you have a rest day. Granted, it's not a day off, but for me, it's a day at home. (And don't take that the wrong way, I'm not justifing the policy, just explaining my days at home. I definitely do not agree that an individual should be limited on max days off or string of days off. There's just nothing that I can see being able to do about it other than adjust my bidding choices to maximize days with the family.)

All in all, it sure as hell beats being with a bankrupt carrier and wondering whether or not you are going to have a paycheck the next week. I personally am able to spend a lot of quality time with my family and for the most part, I'm never gone more than one or two nights in a row (but again, that's just me and how I bid).

Take it with a grain of salt. Everyone's experiences are different. The new rostering rules are implemented next month and I very well could be eating my words after the roster's come out.

Good luck.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I have a question, a few questions really. This rostering thing is that the same thing as bid lines? I also hear a lot about how expensive it's gotton over the last year or so but if you don't pay rent/mortgage or utilities doesn't that mean more money in your bank account??

The company will give you money for furnishings correct? Can you use that to ship your furnishings from home???

Here is the big question, I think I read that you guys are due a pay raise next month, do you have any idea what percentage that might be and if the management team takes into account that things have gotton really expensive??

Thanks Gents.

WD.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

This is great info. It does take the ability to weigh all the factors and make a decision. If you are at EK and this is happening, you should be able to b1tch a little. Your qol is decreasing and flying more. Seniority is suppose to mean something. For those of us at other carriers, we have experienced some sort of the same qol reduction. Myself, I am weighing all the aspects and am going to make a decision based on ALL the info I can obtain. I too, have talked with a couple of friends that are there, and read the postings here. Sure the grass is always greener, but that is a two way street. If it is greener on the other side, then make the jump. If you are a Comair CRJ FO, with all that is happening there, would EK be a nice change in the right direction? You dam right it would be. EK would be better for the TWA/Indy guys also.

Anytime I hear/read complaint it has to come from lazzy a$$ white boys.

This forum is very civilized and informative, go back and take the whiteboy comments with you, there are plenty of immature a$$es over on the regional board.

Dick

 

[fareview]

Gents,

I have read all the posts on EK here and to be frank these treads are pretty civilized and informative – thanks in many ways to TP and Gillegan. Whats clear is its different things to different people and its all relative to your situation.

What I have found flying the line at EK is that the big complainers are not giving out about 40% pay-cuts post 911, seat displacements, bankruptcy, parking of airplanes and fleet rationalization, 10 yr upgrades, furloughs etc.

The main issues are inflation in Dubai, rostering, chauffeur drive pick-up times being scheduled 15 minutes earlier (I know its unbelievable) etc., the burden of not having consecutive vacay days off in a row, lack of commuting schedules (this is not a commuting airline as will be pointed out to you at every opportunity in the recruitment process – so caveat emptor), disappointment at the annual bonus considering the co’s profits, the pay raises being below inflation, etc

So what it comes down to is this: if you think that the above EK complaints (and those issued by some of the other EK posters on this board) warrant horror; then don’t come but and this is a big BUT; if you have come from an environment where the above seems reasonable then take a look.

This place is not perfect but it is working well for a lot of people; in fact I only know of one FO that I have come across lately where Dubai is just not for him. The rest of us are busy having fun, embracing the environment and making a life of it. Maybe it’s the people I socialize with but we do not entertain moaners because quite frankly this place is pretty damn good (and this is a subjective view as I do not know what it was like years ago in the good old days – but by god I am reminded every time I fly with someone other than a DEC).

My previous two airlines were marginal environments made good by great pilot groups, EK is a good environment that can be made marginal by great complainers – and some of these guys are experts at it. Be warned there is a school of thought here that the worse the market feels about EK the greater the incentive for HR to sweeten the pot – which quite frankly has its merits but is somewhat selfish when it come to providing the aspirant with good info.

So – if you like the idea of quick upgrades, free housing (utils etc), decent money, good equipment, diverse route network, the fact that you will not spend endless months on reserve as a jnr pilot because of the roster set-up, education assistance, cash per-diem at hotels (which are decent to excellent BTW), driven to and from work, decent days annual leave (I am being grey here for sensitivity purposes), excellent on board food, great looking gals (if you are single – as we married boys don’t look…;>), huge expansion, the security of a govt job…..then come interview EK as they interview you…

…and you never know you may end up actually liking it here…along with a lot of other guys…

One man’s respectful opinion,

fareview

P.S. the senior guys are great to fly with once they have finished their rant.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Gents,

I have read all the posts on EK here and to be frank these treads are pretty civilized and informative – thanks in many ways to TP and Gillegan. Whats clear is its different things to different people and its all relative to your situation.

What I have found flying the line at EK is that the big complainers are not giving out about 40% pay-cuts post 911, seat displacements, bankruptcy, parking of airplanes and fleet rationalization, 10 yr upgrades, furloughs etc.

The main issues are inflation in Dubai, rostering, chauffeur drive pick-up times being scheduled 15 minutes earlier (I know its unbelievable) etc., the burden of not having consecutive vacay days off in a row, lack of commuting schedules (this is not a commuting airline as will be pointed out to you at every opportunity in the recruitment process – so caveat emptor), disappointment at the annual bonus considering the co’s profits, the pay raises being below inflation, etc

So what it comes down to is this: if you think that the above EK complaints (and those issued by some of the other EK posters on this board) warrant horror; then don’t come but and this is a big BUT; if you have come from an environment where the above seems reasonable then take a look.

This place is not perfect but it is working well for a lot of people; in fact I only know of one FO that I have come across lately where Dubai is just not for him. The rest of us are busy having fun, embracing the environment and making a life of it. Maybe it’s the people I socialize with but we do not entertain moaners because quite frankly this place is pretty damn good (and this is a subjective view as I do not know what it was like years ago in the good old days – but by god I am reminded every time I fly with someone other than a DEC).

My previous two airlines were marginal environments made good by great pilot groups, EK is a good environment that can be made marginal by great complainers – and some of these guys are experts at it. Be warned there is a school of thought here that the worse the market feels about EK the greater the incentive for HR to sweeten the pot – which quite frankly has its merits but is somewhat selfish when it come to providing the aspirant with good info.

So – if you like the idea of quick upgrades, free housing (utils etc), decent money, good equipment, diverse route network, the fact that you will not spend endless months on reserve as a jnr pilot because of the roster set-up, education assistance, cash per-diem at hotels (which are decent to excellent BTW), driven to and from work, decent days annual leave (I am being grey here for sensitivity purposes), excellent on board food, great looking gals (if you are single – as we married boys don’t look…;>), huge expansion, the security of a govt job…..then come interview EK as they interview you…

…and you never know you may end up actually liking it here…along with a lot of other guys…

One man’s respectful opinion,

fareview

P.S. the senior guys are great to fly with once they have finished their rant.

Great Post FV.

WD