Eagle or Trans States

[CX880]

Any opinions would be appreciated, have gotten offers from both.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Eagle.

After 6 months, there will be a lower chance you'll want to kill yourself if you stay away from TSA.

My buddy almost quit flying completely because it was so bad (but better than Mesa!).

cliff
YIP

 

[CX880]

What was bad about it?

 

[spacecadet1]

They're all bad. Go back to school, use your noggen and get a real job.

 

[CX880]

They're all bad. Go back to school, use your noggen and get a real job.

No kidding, I'm trying to go to the one that's least bad. If you have nothing constructive to say pleas..

 

[Flybet3]

No kidding, I'm trying to go to the one that's least bad. If you have nothing constructive to say pleas..

Alrighty my friend. I recommend you go to eagle. Yeah the upgrade is long, but the company it self (work rules, pay, bennies) are waaaaaay better than TSA. I worked for eagle and aside from the long upgrade I really enjoyed the company and everyone I flew with (SAAB). I've met a 5 or so people from TSA, only 1 of those guys (he's on flightinfo) is a nice guy, with his head out of his A$$. The other guys are always unhappy, miserable and well, kind of a$$holes. Not to say that out of the 2700 pilots that eagle has there wont be a bunch of dou**bags. But like I said, from personal experience eagle is way better, and more reputable company to work for. Training is very good also, and the routes are nice. Good luck with your decision. Also, it's toooooooo early for you to get into the "this career sux" attitude. Go fly for eagle, get some experience, get a taste for what being a regional pilot is all about and then decide wether this is something you want to do until you're 65 or move on.
Some people hear talk as if it is easy to drop another 50K or 100K to go back to school and give up on a career you haven't even tried for your self. Just make sure that you do not get infected with some of these peoples negative attitude and frustration. Yeah, being a pilot is not glamorous, the pay at the begining sucks, and you will struggle with low pay and low seniority. But just pay your dues and remember that you got into flying b/c you love flying and that at the end of the day it still beats the hell out of working. Some people here dont really know the meaning of the "HARD LABOR/WORK"

 

[spg2bmd]

No matter what you decide, just keep in mind that regionals are a stepping stone. Go where you can get experience and upgrade is at least in sight. Make the industry better if you can and leave whatever company you work for better than you found it.
Good luck.

 

[Flybet3]

No matter what you decide, just keep in mind that regionals are a stepping stone. Go where you can get experience and upgrade is at least in sight. Make the industry better if you can and leave whatever company you work for better than you found it.
Good luck.

Very well said, pretty much what I said, but shorter and better.

 

[thepotato232]

If those two were my only (and I mean only) choices, then I'd go Eagle. TSA seems to be a s**tstorm these days. There's at least one current GLA FO who jumped over from TSA. 'Nuff said. If you're considering these two companies, it could only be for one of two reasons: You don't meet the mins at other places, or you're after a specific base. If it's #1, then I think you should either go to Eagle or get enough time for something better - nobody really knows how long the average regional new hire is going to take to get to their 'real' job these days, so at least go to one that won't attempt to eat your soul. If you're worried about a base, then it's Eagle again. Worried about base = Worried about QOL = Stay the f*** away from TSA (or any number of others).

Of all of the Eagle guys I've known, they all seem to have the same love/hate relationship with the company: Good people, good treatment, decent pay, but major issues with the upgrade and more recently with AMR itself. I've yet to meet a Waterski pilot who is genuinely happy with their decision.

 

[Trimmers]

As a 7 year Trans States pilot I will say I do not regret coming to TSA. We have the same problems as all the other regionals but there are also some benefits. Upgrades are as low as 1 year right now and there is talk of new growth.

The biggest problem withmost new FO's is they have no understanding of what life as an airline pilot is like. If you want to be home every holiday, you don't like spending hours upon hours in a hotel or sitting around an airport then look to different career. You will sit reserve for awhile you will have crappy schedules as a junior fo or captain and you will not make alot of money to start. But, a third year captain will make more at TSA than a 3 year fo at Eagle. I suggest you do some research on pay and work rules. We have been negotiating a new contract for 2 years with no quick solution in site, but when it is done work rules will be better.

Cliff, what did your friend dislike about TSA?

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Things are picking up at eagle aren't they? Had a jump seater last week say upgrades are picking up over there.

 

[Flybet3]

Things are picking up at eagle aren't they? Had a jump seater last week say upgrades are picking up over there.

I sure hope you're right

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Eagle obviously is the much better company with a head over heels better contract. If the upgrade is moving faster I'd obviously go there.... But if it's staying stagnant, (not what I've been told) go elsewhere.

 

[pipejockey]

They're all bad. Go back to school, use your noggen and get a real job.

Amen!! Why in the hell won't these youngsters take our advice and experiences to heart and RUN, not walk away from this crap industry. If I had the internet and message boards and such when I was getting into this, I would actually be well established in a real CAREER, I wouldn't have wasted so many years pursuing a job as an airline pilot which has become all but a dead-end job anymore. No future for most. Some will make it to the big time but they better be extremely young and have tons of connections. there is nothing in this for the rest of us.

But just pay your dues and remember that you got into flying b/c you love flying and that at the end of the day it still beats the hell out of working. Some people here dont really know the meaning of the "HARD LABOR/WORK"

And here is one of the attitudes that some pilots have that causes management to keep our wages in the gutter. 12-16 hour duty days isn't working? Oh and BTW, getting paid for only 5-8 of those hours is absolutely unconscionable! 5 legs and 4 plane changes, incessant delays, working weekends, holidays and missing just about every other important event at home in your families lives, if you can even establish or afford a family due to the pay and lifestyle, while spending well over half your life on the road isn't work??

I worked in the trucking and construction industry while earning money to "pursue my dreamuke:" and know hard work and physical labor. And I have never worked harder than I have in the airline industry and never have been treated with such little respect. An airline pilot generally has a 4 year degree or at least a 2 year, and has spent a great deal of time, energy and money on our professional training yet we are treated like high-school dropouts living in a van down by the river getting high every night.

regionals are a stepping stone.

And yet another killer attitude for this profession. A stepping stone??? what?? You are living in the years pre-barbie jet. When regionals flew what they should be flying, turbo-props, they made up a very small part of our domestic capacity. You can only do so much and go so far with a turbo-prop. Now the barbie jet has taken over a vast chunk of domestic capacity, and taking more each day with yet bigger and bigger barbie jets, 70-90-100 seaters. Most will be stuck at the regional level for their whole career at regional pay rates and regional workrules and regional quality of life flying 5 legs a day with 4 plane changes and 12-16 hour duty days. Not the 1 leg a day that mainline guys do on a transcon line or an overseas line working 10-12 days a month and doing 12 6 hour legs each month. thats is the cake work that everyone thinks they are going to get 1 day. WRONG!!

 

[N60OSU]

Upgrades here are a moving target. We still have a number of AA flowbacks still on property (all CAs), but they are being recalled at a good clip as I understand it. In addition we have many guys with AA numbers from the flowthrough that could go to AA over the next couple of years. We'll have a better picture of how that is going to pan out this spring when the LOA that established flowthrough/flowback expires. Several related issues still outstanding will hopefully be resolved by then.

Also the announcement by AMR that they plan to divest Eagle is a factor as it clouds the picture of what the airline will look like in the future. I think a spinoff is much more likely than an outright sale, so we would remain in AMR's interests to maintain a significant feed relationship between AE/AA. They couldn't expand that flying without scope relief but could bid for flying for other airlines. I'm an optimist and see the potential benefits outweighing the potential difficulties. No doubt there are those who would disagree with me.

I came to Eagle in the spring after a couple of years in 135. I've been very satisfied with the decision. I came because of the base choice and the contract, knowing that upgrade would be longer here than perhaps at some other carriers. Eagle is a very stable company with a lot of potential. My seniority has been steadily improving as upgrades have been steady and our FOs are finding themselves competitive for other jobs even without PIC time.

We all have different motivators and TSA would probably be a better fit for someone who is flexible and looking to upgrade and move on. I was more interested in stability, good working conditions (not to suggest that TSA's working conditions are poor, only that Eagle's were a known quantity to me) and a commutable domicile and, having a fair amount of PIC time from my 135 days, was willing to accept a longer upgrade. Eagle was the best fit for me and, as I said, I think I made the right decision for me.

 

[pipejockey]

Eagle obviously is the much better company with a head over heels better contract.

Thats a bold statement!! Can you back it up in any way? I went to APC and looked at the pay rates and they are quite similar. Eagle is only 1 dollar an hour more than TSA due to the 135 rate increasing to about 5 more for the 145. Quite insignificant if you ask me. Bottom line...a regional is a regional is a pablum pukin regional!

 

[AWACO]

......flying 5 legs a day with 4 plane changes and 12-16 hour duty days........!

You are really changing that many aircraft at your out stations? That really would be annoying.

 

[siucavflight]

Go where you dont have to commute, or commute as far.

 

[EHE2]

Regionals are regionals.
You won't sit reserve to long at TSA (as an FO). It has been much worse at TSA than it is now (post summer of 06...). Every one likes to Bit*c about TSA; It is a love to hate relationship. Truth is, it is what it is. It is what you make of it. Upgrades are fast and will get you your time so you can move on. Eagle has a better contract right now, but is more stagnated than other regionals. I guess it is all in what you are looking for; upgrade or quality of life. There is a reason why one is stagnant and the other is not.

 

[Mickey]

Where do you live, or where do you want to live?
I know a lot pilots who like or hate their jobs. The ones who like it usually don't commute. The ones who hate it usually commute. I know pilots who like their jobs at TSA and ones who hated Eagle and vise a versa.

Good luck

 

[Dornier 335]

I have worked for TSA over 3 years now and have commuted the entire time (we're talking about a 2 hour commute). I know that commuting sucks, but I do not regret working at TSA. Yeah, management sucks, PIO's maniac, but if you toughen up and know how to fight back, then it's durable. Training's a bitch, too; don't expect to be spoon-fed, know how to fly instruments, and it shouldn't be too hard to pass training.

Except for one captain I have flown with, I must say that it's a pretty awesome pilot group. Go ahead and bad-mouth management, but leave the pilot group alone: No pilot is better than the other.

As for the new-hire f/o's ... don't feel entitled!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Amen!! Why in the hell won't these youngsters take our advice and experiences to heart and RUN, not walk away from this crap industry. If I had the internet and message boards and such when I was getting into this, I would actually be well established in a real CAREER, I wouldn't have wasted so many years pursuing a job as an airline pilot which has become all but a dead-end job anymore. No future for most.

.....so are you going to take your own advice? Are you going to get out of this "dead-end job"..... You would be an idiot to stay according to your own advice......

 

[pipejockey]

.....so are you going to take your own advice? Are you going to get out of this "dead-end job"..... You would be an idiot to stay according to your own advice......

I am trying to relay the reality of things to someone who does not have the time and money sunk into this job yet. Comparing me to an individual who has not even worked for an airline yet is like comparing apples to oranges. I have been ruined by this industry already, my earlier statements about the condition of this industry is to keep a bright young man from ruining his youth pursuing a dead-end job. Could he make the big time? Perhaps. His age and connections, if any, at any of the 5 or so airlines worth working for need to be taken into consideration, and also how well he interviews. I am an old guy approaching my late 30s and am too far gone to make anything of myself in another field.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I am trying to relay the reality of things to someone who does not have the time and money sunk into this job yet. Comparing me to an individual who has not even worked for an airline yet is like comparing apples to oranges. I have been ruined by this industry already, my earlier statements about the condition of this industry is to keep a bright young man from ruining his youth pursuing a dead-end job. Could he make the big time? Perhaps. His age and connections, if any, at any of the 5 or so airlines worth working for need to be taken into consideration, and also how well he interviews. I am an old guy approaching my late 30s and am too far gone to make anything of myself in another field.

Late 30's and you can't make it in one of those "great fields" that you encourage others to join? Why not? I wouldn't stay in this business if it had "ruined" me...... Maybe it is your own fault...... Have you looked in the mirror?

 

[theo]

In this buisness seniority is still king. Getting to be a captain as soon as possible should be your prime objective early in your career. That makes you more money and give you the PIC all Majors are looking for. TSA is a much better choice than Eagle for those reasons. I know plenty of pilots at both carriers. Almost all like where they are at. TSA takes more shxx on here than most but it is almost always from people who don't work there. The ones I know are pretty happy, building time and making plans to move up. Good luck, and welcome to the buisness!

 

[Flybet3]

.....so are you going to take your own advice? Are you going to get out of this "dead-end job"..... You would be an idiot to stay according to your own advice......

HAHAHAHA! LOL. There you go, that's exactly what i keep telling everyone that continues to give "advice" to new pilots. Take that advice, put it into practice and show us that you really can make WAAAAAY more money and work less outside of aviation right away. Or like some say, you can make more as a McD's manager. Please, please, fill out an app and get going.

 

[Flybet3]

I am trying to relay the reality of things to someone who does not have the time and money sunk into this job yet. .

Yo man, anyone that has 250+ hours, not to mention is already a CFI has already sunk in enough money (30K a least?) to just continue. It really is idiotic for you to think that someone who just spent anywhere between 30K-60K on flight training is going to say...hey you know what? I think pipejockey is right, I'll just go back to school and drop another 30K for a bachelors degree in Business Management.
Go relay that bull**** advice to all the kids in elementary school.

 

[pipejockey]

I'll just go back to school and drop another 30K for a bachelors degree in Business Management.

Don't 90% of us have 4 year degrees anyway? Wasn't that 1 of the first things we picked up to become airline pilots, or is all you need an HS diploma now? They have dropped just about every other standard to the gutter, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. And the little chance that most of us have of getting on with 1 of the few airlines worth working for pretty much goes out the window without a 4 year degree anyway.

 

[Flybet3]

Don't 90% of us have 4 year degrees anyway? Wasn't that 1 of the first things we picked up to become airline pilots, or is all you need an HS diploma now? They have dropped just about every other standard to the gutter, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. And the little chance that most of us have of getting on with 1 of the few airlines worth working for pretty much goes out the window without a 4 year degree anyway.

a 4 year degree in WHAT???? AVIATION?? HA! pretty useless if you ask me. I've only met a few that actually did something and got a Bachelor's or Master's in something useful like Business, Finances. I dont know if you've noticed, but yeah, all you really need now is a high school diploma. What's a 4 year degree to some now a days? Just extra ink on a resume to "impress" the recruiters.
What do people do, piss money away on a degree from Riddle online to just BOOST the resume. What does that prove about them? Nothing really. Someone once told me, "oh it shows that you can commit and have the maturity to finish things". I call bullsh*t on that one. Why? b/c anyone that stays in aviation as a pilot for more than 10 years shows much more commitment to me than any retard that was able to get a degree in aviation by just showing up to class, or logging on the computer and passing with C's.
I'm sorry man, that's where I disagree with alot of people. You're right 90% of people have a degree, but also about 90% of people that have that degree got it in something that is pretty much useless, and unless you practice what you learned 15 years ago in college. Well, then all you have is a Piece of paper in the wall to remind you of how much money you just pissed away for 4 years.

 

[Vne]

I've been a Captain at both EA and TSA............the only thing wrong at TSA is their management.......That said I would NEVER go to work at TSA again I would at Eagle.......fwiw