Air Force Test Pilots

[Joshrk22]

I already used the search function and nothing came up, so here I go..

Anybody know exactly what the steps are needed to become a test pilot?

I have recently been accepted to the Air Force Academy and the University of Michigan. I've decided to turn down the Air Force Academy because 1.) I want to attend the University of Michigan, 2.) I don't think I'd have too much trouble getting a slot through AFROTC, 3.) I want a normal college life. So anyway, I will be attending UofM and double majoring in Mechanical Engineering and Physics.

How exactly do you go about getting a test pilot slot? I'm guessing you do the normal route, UPT, graduate, fly for a couple years and perform to a top-notch level, and then what? Do you apply for it? Has anybody on here been down that road?

Also, my instructor's son-in-law is currently a test pilot. He went to the Zoo, so my question is, do USAFA grads have a higher chance of going on to be test pilots?

Finally, how tough is it to get an ENJJPT slot? I heard be first or second in your commander's ranking, test high in everything else, and you should pretty much be guaranteed a slot.

 

[stonewall]

Good luck at Michigan. Looks like we're fat on pilots right now, but hopefully it'll turn around by the time you graduate. When I graduated from college, ROTC got 100 slots nation-wide.

I went to ENJJPT, but the selection criteria is different for ROTC and USAFA. Nothing is ever guaranteed in the military, though.

It's good to have goals, but I wouldn't worry too much about TPS (Test Pilot School) right now. One of my best buds is a TPS Grad. He was a very solid pilot (F-16s and then F-117 Weapons School Grad), had a 3.96 GPA in Astro Engineering from USAFA, a Master's (required), and did well at everything. He was turned down the first time.

Do some more research. DT (Developmental Test...what TPS grads do) is not that exciting, and it ain't like the Yeager days. It's very non-tactical and often repetitive. I was an OT (Operational Test) pilot for 3+ years and it was very fun and rewarding. Of course, that didn't require a TPS graduate.

Anyway, good luck.

 

[NewmanF16]

You need to have an engineering degree, be a pilot, have good recs from your chain of command and apply. I believe they have a board every year.

I don't blame you for going to UofM, but you are taking a chance (albiet a small one) that you won't go to UPT. Your odds are always higher going to the academy. I graduated in 91, and only academy grads went to UPT that year. Once you graduate, however, it will have little impact on the rest of your career, unless you want to get assigned back there.

 

[PisforProperty]

Try the other parts of the internet too. Type "air force test pilot school" into google, click "I'm Feeling Lucky" and see what happens.

Also, my instructor's son-in-law is currently a test pilot. He went to the Zoo, so my question is, do USAFA grads have a higher chance of going on to be test pilots?

See if you can ask this guy too. But kind of like Magnum said, first things first. Concentrate on getting your degree, staying healthy, staying out of trouble and getting your pilot slot. If you do well at those, opportunities like going to TPS may present themselves down the road.

 

[Joshrk22]

Thanks guys. I know that I am taking a chance by turning down the Academy but I went out there for the Summer Seminar and some of the kids were whack.

My dad has talked to me about turning down the USAFA because it is an excellent college and he wants to make sure that I don't regret giving up that opportunity. Like I said, I'm a pretty intelligent, athletic person, so I don't think I'd have too tough of a time getting a slot. The cadre down at UofM said only one person who has applied for a slot in the last couple years hasn't received one and that was because he went to EMU and he had a 2.6 GPA, so they have a pretty good track record. I suppose they could just be saying that, though.

Sounds like for now I need to just take small steps and worry about getting through college/ROTC.

The reason I turned down the Academy is because I want that normal college life. I know both colleges have excellent engineering majors so I'm not really losing or gaining anything there.

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[stonewall]

but I went out there for the Summer Seminar and some of the kids were whack.

I'm sure there are no whack kids at Michigan.


You might be the smartest, most athletic, and best looking guy in the Midwest, but that won't help you get a UPT slot if there are none to be had. That's all we're saying...if the pool dries up, it will affect the USAFA grads least.

 

[hindsight2020]

I had the exact same plan you had going into college. Aero Engineering major, mil pilot aspirations, figured 2+2 so TPS makes absolute sense..... then I went through 5 years of engineering and the morning fog cleared lol. I went on to get a Master's on the same, but at that point it was a delay tactic more than any aspirations of TPS.

If you want an analogy it's kinda like those people who want to become astronauts. It sounds good on paper but once you peel the onion you realize the amount of work and time that has to be invested for a job that's not quite like you think it is, and odds that are not quite in your control...although at least at TPS you don't need a phD just to get to wear diapers (tc)

For my money, mileage may vary, but magnum's take on it is as good as gospel from my perspective. The day to day of the TPS grad is actually quite non-tactical (yep it's not 1965 alright). Just like modern-day engineering, modern day DT is a far cry from the 50s and 60s, and a lot of research is computer modeled nowadays, that will be evidenced in the heavy emphasis your engineering curriculum at UM will be on coding-based work regardless of type of engineering. Only having anecdotal evidence from FCF folks, I'd say OT is more of what I thought TPS work was like. So food for thought there.

Congrats on UM, decent school; work hard, keep the GPA up even if it means dropping one major, and do yourself a favor and party like a rock star. If you do that you'll have a decent shot at getting a pilot slot through ROTC. Like others have said, don't worry so much about TPS or attaining a particular career track, you have so many years ahead of you I almost guarantee you your perspectives in life will shift and mold as you go along, I know mine did. Good luck man.

 

[Joshrk22]

I'm sure there are no whack kids at Michigan.

Haha, well I won't disagree with you there. I think any moderately smart school is going to have it's fair share of eccentric kids.

You might be the smartest, most athletic, and best looking guy in the Midwest, but that won't help you get a UPT slot if there are none to be had. That's all we're saying...if the pool dries up, it will affect the USAFA grads least.

Understandable. Luck of the draw..

 

[Joshrk22]

Thanks hindsight2020 and Magnum, you guys have really opened my eyes about the whole TPS gig.

 

[coho92]

Congrats - my folks (UofM grads)were close to upset that I chose the academy over UofM. Pops felt that while the academies are good solid schools they tend to create rather right wingish drones that fear questioning the system while a good liberal school like Michigan produces a more well rounded officer. Like the posts above say, the key is good grades and a strong major - have had some friends say it is hard to get a pilot slot as an engineering major since the military is so short of them. Follow the dream, look into the other services, guard, reserve, etc., and most importantly enjoy life
my2cents

 

[bssthound]

:laugh:

at least at TPS you don't need a phD just to get to wear diapers (tc)

:laugh:



My unit was one of the very first to convert to the C-130J. We have had a lot of few different test pilots flying with us since about '99/00. Good guys all, but they echo what these guys are telling you. A LOT of hard work and not as much "fun" flying as the old days. That being said, you gotta do what YOU wanna do; don't take anyone else's word about anything in your plans unless that person has worn a military flight suit. Too many "know it alls" who never quite got around to actually going to work in a military cockpit.

Work hard and keep your nose clean!! The days of DUIs and other arrests being swept under the rug are over.

I'm wishing you the very best of fortune, you're obviously ambitious and I hope you chew it up!!

 

[DaveGriffin]

I know that I am taking a chance by turning down the Academy but I went out there for the Summer Seminar and some of the kids were whack.

Amen, brother.

 

[stonewall]

Amen, brother.

You should've seen the kids we turned away...I'm sure a few ended up at USNA. Me and most of the guys I knew at USAFA used the Naval Academy and West Point as our "safety schools" when sending out apps.

 

[Oh-ryan]

You need to have an engineering degree, be a pilot, have good recs from your chain of command and apply. I believe they have a board every year.

I don't blame you for going to UofM, but you are taking a chance (albiet a small one) that you won't go to UPT. Your odds are always higher going to the academy. I graduated in 91, and only academy grads went to UPT that year. Once you graduate, however, it will have little impact on the rest of your career, unless you want to get assigned back there.

Best advice yet on the subject. Go Blue, unless money is tight and you want to save yourself (or your parents) some scratch. The USAFA will take it out of your a$$ a nickel at a time though (just like the rest of the service academies).

Or, for best results, go to Appalachian State!

 

[Joshrk22]

Best advice yet on the subject. Go Blue, unless money is tight and you want to save yourself (or your parents) some scratch. The USAFA will take it out of your a$$ a nickel at a time though (just like the rest of the service academies).

Or, for best results, go to Appalachian State!

Haha, thanks! Yah, Umich's athletic teams suck this year...

Then again, their basketball team isn't very good period.

 

[HoursHore]

Go blue, Go Rotc. you will not regret it.

 

[DaveGriffin]

It looks like Joshrk22 will be class of '12. So is it reasonable to expect that if he works hard and his aspirations line up with the AF's needs, he would be a test pilot 10 years or so from now, in 2018?

If that is correct I am curious, what exactly would an AF test pilot's duties be in 2018? Do you expect there will be enough manned airplanes operational and in the development pipeline to support a test pilot program?

As for AFROTC, I have a good friend whose son graduated UVA AFROTC last year, class of '07. Due to recent F-22 triggered manning cutbacks, the AF released quite a few of the graduates from their obligation. It was considered a good deal by many of the grads, free education and no obligation.

 

[Huggyu2]

If that is correct I am curious, what exactly would an AF test pilot's duties be in 2018?

I would not limit that statemeny to just "AF test pilot duties". Will Pax River stay busy too?

Interesting comment on ROTC, and how the F-22 budget has reached out and touched even a commissioning source. In years past, the the USAF allowed cadets to leave, but made them pay back their scholarships.

 

[stonewall]

Due to recent F-22 triggered manning cutbacks, the AF released quite a few of the graduates from their obligation.

What evidence to have to support the claim that manning cutbacks were triggered solely by the F-22?

The JSF will start bedding down in 2014. AF Test Pilots fly other airplanes besides fighters. There will be plenty of work to be done...unless you think manned flight will be over altogether in the future?

 

[Jafar]

I want a normal college life.

... and double majoring in Mechanical Engineering and Physics.

You realize these two statements aren't very consistent with one another, I hope.

Not to dissuade you, got for it. Just know what you're getting into.

Halfway through college I switched from a bogus major (PoliSci) to a real major (Math) and the quality of my lifestyle went down about a thousand percent. You wanna talk about weird kids? Wait till you get into those upper level physics classes. You'll redefine "whack" on an hourly basis.

I know now that I would have gotten the slot I got with the poli-sci degree. However I wouldn't do anything different because going the tech route made me far more analytical, which I see as a good thing.

If you like the tech stuff, go for it. Just realize that its an ass kicker just to major in one tech subject. Also keep in mind that a good GPA in one major is going to look better than a low one in two majors.

Good luck.

 

[Joshrk22]

You realize these two statements aren't very consistent with one another, I hope.

Not to dissuade you, got for it. Just know what you're getting into.

Halfway through college I switched from a bogus major (PoliSci) to a real major (Math) and the quality of my lifestyle went down about a thousand percent. You wanna talk about weird kids? Wait till you get into those upper level physics classes. You'll redefine "whack" on an hourly basis.

I know now that I would have gotten the slot I got with the poli-sci degree. However I wouldn't do anything different because going the tech route made me far more analytical, which I see as a good thing.

If you like the tech stuff, go for it. Just realize that its an ass kicker just to major in one tech subject. Also keep in mind that a good GPA in one major is going to look better than a low one in two majors.

Good luck.

Actually it's funny that you mentioned it because I was just thinking to myself after reading all these replies. "Do I want to fly or do I want to be an engineer?" Obviously I picked the first, so that's what I need to plan for. Like you said, I need to work for a high GPA in one major instead of a low GPA in two majors. So I've decided I'm just going to get a degree in Mechanical Engineering.

I'm actually going into my freshman year with all of my math done except for differential equations, and all of my physics classes are done. So now I just have to worry about the MechE classes and humanities classes. So hopefully my GPA won't be all that low. This will also give me a lot more free time to worry about other classes because I will have 20+ credit hours completed.

I have the opportunity to run track for UofM, actually high jump and I think it'd be awesome to be able to do that at a DI college but it'd take up way too much time. Gotta' prioritize..

I want to fly fighters or bombers, so I think it'd be best to aim for ENJJPT, so that's what I'm going to work for.

 

[stonewall]

WTF??? I was a poli-sci major...it's a real major! It's come in real handy over the last 12 years. Well, sort of handy. Okay, it's actually not handy at all. Kinda useless. Nevermind.

 

[DaveGriffin]

I would not limit that statemeny to just "AF test pilot duties". Will Pax River stay busy too?

Interesting comment on ROTC, and how the F-22 budget has reached out and touched even a commissioning source. In years past, the the USAF allowed cadets to leave, but made them pay back their scholarships.

All military aviation will be subject to the same dynamic....fewer manned airplanes in the pipeline and in our future.

The Navy however has done a better job of embracing the future, while the AF fighter guy leadership is doing the best they can to put off the inevitable as long as possible. A good example is the (formerly joint) X-45C program. The AF bailed on the program and the Navy has kept at it, working on UCAVs that can operate off our CVGs.

As for the AFROTC, it looks like the AF didn't see the big personnel cuts coming needed to pay for the F-22 five years ago when the class of '07 was accepted. I don't know the exact number but they offered the deal to a significant number of grads in '07. How can they say we don't have a job for you and you have to pay us back for school? They can't. So they just offered the deal and let some of them walk. I'm guessing it wasn't just UVA but system wide. You are probably in a better position to check on the details of this than me.

 

[DaveGriffin]

What evidence to have to support the claim that manning cutbacks were triggered solely by the F-22?

The JSF will start bedding down in 2014. AF Test Pilots fly other airplanes besides fighters. There will be plenty of work to be done...unless you think manned flight will be over altogether in the future?

MAGNUM!!

Absolutely right. It's not just the cost of the F-22 that is causing the severe manning level reductions in the AF. It's also the high cost of golf course maintenance, Officer Clubs and recreational programs.

Now, with your F-15s out of business, to be replaced by increasing the F-22 buy, it will get even worse. It takes a lot of scrap F-15s to pay for a single new F-22 and all the folks, equipment and spares needed to maintain and support it.

But the good news is the F-22 was just declared fully operational since they figured out how to fly them across the IDL without crashing the computers.

 

[GenericPilot]

Consider ANG, Naval aviation, or Navy TPS

Don't forget about Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard commissioning programs (some have no ROTC options..i.e. long hair and no uniforms during college). I flew as a Marine pilot prior to my air guard transition, and Navy/Marine Aviation was a lot more satisfying on a day to day basis. I've spent a lot of time at Patuxent River with Navy test pilots, and they have it pretty good. However, the USAFA is the way to go to the" top in the usaf hierarchy" and in aviation. You passed up a golden meal ticket kid. Having that on your resume opens many doors.

My recommendation...join an air guard unit while in school and work in avionics. The future of flight test is the computer side of the house. You'll be testing UAVs more than airplanes when you graduate TPS.
It's also a good way to get a flight slot (fly anyhting they give you) and not have a 10 year active duty commitment.

Second recommendation..find a career field that is on the upswing..it's not the airplane side of the house. More and more kids in the USAF are choosing space warfare over flying these days. Look for future trends, not legacy careers. Make some money, buy yourself an aerobatic plane or sailplane and fly for fun on the weekends.

Best of luck.

 

[tomgoodman]

Test Pilot info

Here's a starting point:

http://www.edwards.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=6467

Here's a highly-respected alternative to military test pilot schools:

http://www.ntps.edu/

For a good look at flight-test work, attend a symposium of this organization:

http://www.setp.org/

If you are puzzled by terms such as stability derivatives, phugoid oscillations, Reynolds number, Harper-Cooper ratings, etc. -- don't worry, you will be taught that stuff (at a furious pace). But if you're bored by such things, this career is not for you.

Pay little attention to information which is not extremely current -- things have always changed rapidly at Edwards. Good luck.

 

[wmuflyguy]

My brother is an Aerospace engineering Major at UofM. He is a senior and I would say he leads a very normal college life. He plays some intramural sports, drinks plenty of beer, and goes to sporting events. He has a 3.9 GPA, so he isn't jsut going through the motions either. They throw a pretty good tailgate at his house to during the football season.

 

[puck_11]

WTF??? I was a poli-sci major...it's a real major! It's come in real handy over the last 12 years. Well, sort of handy. Okay, it's actually not handy at all. Kinda useless. Nevermind.

Hence..."Poli-sci if you want to fly!"

If you really want the best deal, join Navy BDCP your sophomore year of college. Guaranteed pilot slot, plus you get paid AD as an e-3 plus BAH and BAS, which works out to be about $500 a week. All you have to do is meet with the recruiter once a month to make sure you're not getting fat and run a PRT twice a year. You'll be living like a king! Best part is after you get your comission at OCS, you'll be pulling O1 over 3 pay, difference of 8K a year over your academy/rotc grads, and maxing out the pay tables as your promote, plus you'll have accumulated 60 days of leave while in college, and 3 years of service, so then its only 17 years of actual serving till retirement.

The academy and ROTC grads hate hearing about this program. Check it out on airwarriors.com for more info.

 

[puck_11]

Just a little more information, look up TAM-21
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123054831

And as far as the guard units go, they are always susceptible to BRAC. Look at the Fargo ANG guys, they had a good deal flying F-16s, some of them were lucky to get C-21s, some of them are now flying the Predator.

 

[Joshrk22]

My brother is an Aerospace engineering Major at UofM. He is a senior and I would say he leads a very normal college life. He plays some intramural sports, drinks plenty of beer, and goes to sporting events. He has a 3.9 GPA, so he isn't jsut going through the motions either. They throw a pretty good tailgate at his house to during the football season.

Wow, aerospace and he has a 3.9? Either he's a genius or he's worked his butt off. I'm hoping to make it through MechE with at least a 3.5+, and MechE isn't nearly as tough as Aero.