Types of Climbs

[guido411]

One more thing for the original poster. . .

You DO understand that all this gradient talk refers to one-engine-inoperative (OEI) operations, right? We all have to assume we're going to lose an engine on every takeoff and be able to ensure that we won't kill ourselves.

Sorry if that insults your intelligence but if a guy hasn't flown a transport category airplane before he might not know that. Good luck.

 

[blueskies8]

Yes at a minimum you have to meet 1.6/2.4 in your 2nd segment but you will more than likely be restricted with a higher climb gradient from a DP. A standard DP with no specified climb gradient requires a 3.3% gross (2.5% net) climb gradient. Like it has been mentioned here before if the DP climb gradient is greater than 3.3% the 100kt column in the ground speed vs. fpm table is quickest way of determining what it is. For example, if the 100 kt column calls for 440ft/nm then the climb gradient required for that DP is 4.4% gross. Once you know the climb gradient required you can go to the AFM and find your aircrafts capability. If you need to meet 4.4% gross climb gradient from the DP chart and you are using data from a "net" climb gradient chart in the AFM you would require a 3.6% net climb gradient to comply with the DP and using a gross climb AFM chart would obviously be a 4.4% requirement. The AFM's that I have dealt with have separate charts to show weight vs. temp that will allow you to make the certification numbers of 1.6% net (2.4% gross) and those charts are called the "Maximum Takeoff Weight Permitted by Climb Requirement". They do not show what your climb gradient will be as it is assumed 1.6/2.4 but they show the weight and temp that will allow you to comply with the certification numbers. I have only run into a certification climb gradient weight restriction once and that was at BJC at 32 degrees Celsius. The way that we were pointed in that direction was that for our desired takeoff weight and pressure alt the the temp stopped at 25 C on the takeoff distance chart. The next place we looked was the certification chart and determined that could not take as much fuel as we wanted to. Luckily we hadn't fueled yet. Sorry for the long story. In short I am glad I have this understanding of the system but really like the Collins smart perf and our new EFB's.

 

[blueskies8]

You DO understand that all this gradient talk refers to one-engine-inoperative (OEI) operations, right? We all have to assume we're going to lose an engine on every takeoff and be able to ensure that we won't kill ourselves.

Guido and I must have been posting at the same time but yeah, what him said.

 

[OPECJet]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[GooseHZ]

Or.....

Froget all that stuff and just


Push


Pull


Pray..... lol


good luck!!!

 

[Bronco Buster]

I don't know for sure if it applies to part 135, but under 121 you don't necessarily have to meet the 3.3% on IFR takeoffs. As long as your company has made airport survey and determined a minimum obstacle clearance gradient that you can meet single engine, you're good to go. They can use not only straight out departures, but also climb over the field to a safe altitude or fly specific radials (to include climbs in a hold.) This is according to my last company's performance engineering department, and is in fact the way we operated during the 19 years that I was there.

 

[av8tor4239]

You all are blowing this out of perportion...

all you need to know for the interview.. hell and for the line (for what it's worth) is how to convert a climb gradient from ft/nm to a %. The reason is because all NJ performance is in %.

FT/NM divided by 1 NM x 100

in other words (Example interview question) So what is the climb gradient on that DP? (say 550 ft/nm) = 500/6079=0.0822x100=8.22%

 

[x402]

You all are blowing this out of perportion...

all you need to know for the interview.. hell and for the line (for what it's worth) is how to convert a climb gradient from ft/nm to a %. The reason is because all NJ performance is in %.

FT/NM divided by 1 NM x 100

in other words (Example interview question) So what is the climb gradient on that DP? (say 550 ft/nm) = 500/6079=0.0822x100=8.22%

I don't think that's true, if the interview team gives you a SID or just an airport plan with the TO mins, you should be ready to discuss what you need to depart from that field. Hopefully, some of this info will help or at least get someone to review the AIM and performance charts.

 

[av8tor4239]

nevermind... good luck

 

[blueskies8]

I don't know for sure if it applies to part 135, but under 121 you don't necessarily have to meet the 3.3% on IFR takeoffs. As long as your company has made airport survey and determined a minimum obstacle clearance gradient that you can meet single engine, you're good to go. They can use not only straight out departures, but also climb over the field to a safe altitude or fly specific radials (to include climbs in a hold.) This is according to my last company's performance engineering department, and is in fact the way we operated during the 19 years that I was there.

Part 135 operators can get special authorization like this as well but for the most part since we are not constantly flying into the same airports day in day out is is not worth the Ops Spec hassle. Instead we either meet the gradient, comply with the obstacle DP if one exists or depart VMC. I have seen those climb over the field procedures for EGE from a 121 operation and correct me if I'm wrong but there are aircraft specific. At least it looked that way where my dad use to fly.