RJDC/ALPA settle...

[737 Pylt]

737, Puff, etc...

Will any of you come out and give objective reasons why you are against the ideas to try to fix problems with outsourced flying?

That would be fine if that's all you girls wanted....However, we've been down this road before. The rjdc tried for a seniority snag, and it falled miserably, much Dan's lawsuit and career!
You're a Delta pilot now fins, you really should drop this thing. Its over, the rjdc lost! How about we put it to bed?
My question for Dan & company, what will they do now? Their frivilous lawsuit cost them millions, and the only one making out in the deal was Haber!
This BS thing wasted countless time, money and resources!
Again, I say it with all sincerety, welcome aboard, you'll like it here, :beer: but I sure hope you keep your mouth shut with regards to the rjdc when you're out on the line!

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

Its over, the rjdc lost! How about we put it to bed?737

Agreed, excellent idea.

 

[PuffDriver]

737, Puff, etc...

Will any of you come out and give objective reasons why you are against the ideas to try to fix problems with outsourced flying?

The personal slams do not really explain anything.

I appreciate Occam's Michael's and other's reasoned responses - the logic behind their positions is informative, interesting and mostly correct.

My time has only been spent here hoping to inform and broaden some views. I wasn't a plaintiff and wasn't even a member for years, but the guys had a point about restoring our profession that I believe has merit and would benefit both sides. If you just simply hate ~~~^~~~'s that can be fixed for $10.

There is no personal slaming here, merely an observation that you have your head in the clouds.
Your time has been spent here in pursuit of the impossible. You have been rebuffed and rebuffed with logic and backup to the logic. You simply do not understand how the world really operates. You think that because military guys take care of their own that ought to be castrated. I counter with civilian guys who are willing to screw the system to get what they want. You think that there is a way to regain the control of the flying Delta has allowed the company to outsource. There is one way to get it back: the company allows it. You assume to be the one to dictate what logic is correct, and what logic is misguided, when in reality yours is largely the one incorrect and misguided. You have been proven wrong on so many accounts of your "facts with regard to how things operate at Delta, even after you have arrived, that i have lost track. yet you seem to ignore that and believe yourself to be correct on all counts.

in short, you bring everything on yourself. You are wrong about pretty much everything, and don't have the stones to admit it, nor the smarts to leave it alone.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I understand your logic - thinking about this only from your perspective and I agree with you that Connection pilots have been unwilling to "buy" their scope. But you have to take a larger view of what is good for this profession as well as those who are below you on your own seniority list. This is where I hope that a national union can take a broad view. We need national leadership that can convince ALPA members that coordination between working groups is a very good thing.

You hit it on the head.

Regardless of the perspective, the "larger view" of the profession should be to protect and enhance it. ALPA, or any other union, doesn't have the ability to alter economics or Mr. Smith's Invisible Hand. Supply & Demand, Government Influence, and autonomous authority in the hands of union reps with disparate priorities all combine to make the collective goals achievable only when the planets align.

We had the leadership necessary to get Brand Scope at at least two of the mainlines...but the distaff side of ALPA, led by Ms. Dan and Ms. Jesse weren't listening. They were petulant, impatient, combin-o-facists who never understood the price they would be expected to bear for the benefits they expected to be GIVEN.

The objectives were never disputed by any of the mainline guys...nor any of the Airlink reps involved. But because the RJDC dinks never tried to understand the necessity for shared cost...the greatest leaders in the world couldn't have kept those zealots working on the cause from the inside.

I've watched their claims, demands, and "logic" morph over the years as adult-after-adult has explained to them that their efforts were without merit because their "no cost" premise was specious.

What's good for my profession is that my profession stay good. As I explained earlier, the need for a professional apprenticeship is reasonable. (Don't confuse that with Union Apprenticeship, Probie!) The demarckation point of the transition from "need it" to "got it" is exasperatingly subjective. While we try to find a reasonable point for the transition, it is important to protect the ulimate goal....the high-end position with the pay/rules/benefits we hope to achieve.

 

[AutoBus]

Read more closely FDJ2...... it requires the mainline MECs to show the regional MECs their opening scope sections prior to bargaining.... That is significant....

This will force the mainline MECs to work more closely with their regional counterparts..... that is very good thing....

Simple solution, just get rid of the regionals.

 

[737 Pylt]

deleted....

 

[Nevets]

Ford-Cooksey Lawsuit Settled

On Monday, June 16, a federal district judge in New York approved the settlement in the Ford-Cooksey case. This is the lawsuit originally brought by pilots at Comair and ASA more than seven years ago challenging negotiation of the scope clause in the Delta collective bargaining agreement.

As you know, in October, the ALPA Executive Board approved the settlement. The main feature of the settlement is an addition to ALPA Policy that will require appointment of a Scope Subcommittee of the Collective Bargaining Committee. This subcommittee will have two main functions: One function is to review and analyze ALPA’s approach to scope issues and to make sure that our scope clauses are effective in protecting pilot jobs. The second is to work with Negotiating Committees during scope negotiations to make sure there is coordination between ALPA pilot groups within airline families with respect to scope negotiations.

The settlement will go into effect 30 days from last Monday. During the next few weeks the members of the new Scope Subcommittee will be designated, and will begin preparation for their important work.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

What's this RJDC business you're talking about?

 

[Draginass]

Sound like the decision was written in code meaning "RJDC loses."

 

[TWA Dude]

While not exactly a resounding victory for the RJDC I believe the settlement is a good thing for all regional and major pilots. The independent MEC structure of ALPA creates competition between pilot groups and this settlement eases one of those issues.

 

[PCL_128]

Sound like the decision was written in code meaning "RJDC loses."

That's about the size of it. I'm sure Joey will try his best to spin it, though. :laugh:

 

[ultrarunner]

There are just too many conflicting interests for mainline carriers and RJ operators to be in the same union.....

I was thinking the same thing. While I only loosely followed the issue, IMHO, the RJDC's time over the years would have been much better spent by the coordination of having all the RJ operators decert the current union on property, then coordinating a single "new" union representing all the RJ flying.

THEN they would have something.

 

[PCL_128]

I was thinking the same thing. While I only loosely followed the issue, IMHO, the RJDC's time over the years would have been much better spent by the coordination of having all the RJ operators decert the current union on property, then coordinating a single "new" union representing all the RJ flying.

THEN they would have something.

Yes, what they would have would be a useless union that couldn't even afford to fund basic operations.

 

[SaturnPilot]

I was thinking the same thing. While I only loosely followed the issue, IMHO, the RJDC's time over the years would have been much better spent by the coordination of having all the RJ operators decert the current union on property, then coordinating a single "new" union representing all the RJ flying.

THEN they would have something.

All regional airlines in ALPA receive more money back than they actually pay in dues. The major airlines subsidize regional MECs. The idea of a regional union would be basically impossible, because as PCL said, it would not make enough money to survive. Dues income for a regional with around 1000 pilots is roughly less than a quarter million per year. One year of contract negotiations alone costs around a half million. A regional union would be bankrupt very quickly.

ALPA can represent both mainline and rj groups because, as has been noted by some to be a problem with ALPA, each individual MEC makes all of their own decisions and are very independent of ALPA National, relying on them more for resources.

 

[astroglider]

Rjdc

Any conclusion that this was anything but a complete loss for the RJDC is pure fantasy!!!

I remember listening to "cocky" COMAIR pilots riding on our jumpseat in 2003 or 2004 telling us that RJ200 pilot's stood to receive $3000-$5000 compensation each from ALPA. This was after we kicked in our "after-tax" dollars each pay-check to help with the Comair strike benefits in 2001. What a bunch of Ass@#$#'s

PLEASE!!!

There is a reason the SCOPE CLAUSE is the first paragraph of any UNION contract. It is more important than any part of the contract that follows period...

If you don't have ironclad scope than what's the point of any other part of the contract!!!

The Comair guys figured this out after Delta started "farming-out" the traditional Comair flying to a variety of other commuter carriers after their strike in 2001.

All scheduled jets no matter what size should have been on mainline seniority list!

What a waste of time and $$$ and for what??? soon Comair will be shut down...CVG closed as DAL base...and in ten years new hires I fly with will not even know Comair existed!!!