ASA's TA

[SSDD]

I'm surprised nobody has posted KB's letter to Skywest pilots concerning the ASA TA. It would be interesting to compare what this guys are being asked to vote on versus what management really thinks.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So... are you going to post it or just tease us?

 

[SSDD]

Sorry, I deleted it.

 

[Troutbait]

You should read the letter before you knock it. I know several ex-ASA guys that came to SKYW and agree completely with the letter. This TA is a progression for ASA pilots and I am happy that things will improve for them. But stop twisting the facts and know that what you are getting is what SKYW mostly has already been getting; besides a COLA which I wish we had. If you are pissed that you are just now getting it, well, remember, SKYW just recently bought you too. You have been in negotiations before the buyout. I wish you had some gratitude and thank the heavens you weren't bought by Mesa. Because you know that Delta approached SKYW with just as much to offer as they did Mesa. So SKYW has been a good thing. If it took awhile, well...that is how it works with a tug-o-war. But it is funny how your hate for management went from Delta/ASA to SKYW over night and it is SKYW who negotiated a deal with you. Show some gratitude and stop trying to bring your fellow pilots into your wallow. The transparency you show with the rhetoric you give is so obvious. You do not care about SKYW pilots, you are only trying to cover your own butts by encouraging us to take on ALPA. I don't wish you to get screwed, I really don't. But with a merger, you know we will get screwed. But that is ok with you. You want the good things that SKYW has to offer, all the while knockin those who got SKYW to where it is at. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

 

[Long Time Gone]

We can tell you didn't do too well in English class Trout. Hopefully, you passed, though.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I wish you had some gratitude and thank the heavens you weren't bought by Mesa. Because you know that Delta approached SKYW with just as much to offer as they did Mesa.

So SKYW has been a good thing....you are only trying to cover your own butts by encouraging us to take on ALPA.

Trout - There was a great honeymoon period when ASA pilots were grateful to have been "rescued" by SkyWest. However, that good will was destroyed by Jerry Atkin coming to ASA, demanding 50% pay cuts from some pilots and stripping 26 of our most senior aircraft from our orders and fleet. Then the SLC and LAX base debacles where ASA pilots have every right to feel like they were lied to.

In the mean time, ASA has more than earned back its "fire sale" purchase price. SkyWest was the clear beneficiary of a great and skillyfully negotiated deal with a desperate Delta. Of course this deal resulted in SkyWest's rapid growth and your advancement that you are afraid you might lose in a merger.

While it is true that ASA pilots would benefit by SkyWest joining ALPA, all pilots including SkyWest pilots will benefit by greater unity and negotiating equity.

Further, I believe some changes are coming which will result in ALPA taking a more proactive role in scope negotiations which allocate labor. In plain terms, future "brand scope" will look out for those in the club. If SkyWest joins the club, your Company will have more votes, which is always a good thing in a democracy.

If ASA and SkyWest were to merge under ALPA (which is not a certainty, remember Comair and ASA never merged despite better reasons to do so) SkyWest pilots' relative seniority would not be negatively effected (if you look at the history of similar mergers). The fear of loss of your quick upgrade is unfounded.

In fact, there may be some compelling growth reasons for SkyWest pilots to want to be tied to ASA. We will all have to wait 12 to 24 months to find out.

 

[sweptback]

It's a common misconception that the ASA TA is the same as the SkyWest policy manual.

The payrates are higher in both aircraft, plus we got a date of signing bump every year.

We have scope to protect against aircraft transfers, with an integration framework if it comes to that.

Our scheduling section as a whole is night and day compared to most regionals, SkyWest included. Your Sked+ or whatever it is called is basically the parts of our scheduling section that doesn't cost the company much money. There's much more in our section that is somewhat expensive for the company that they probably won't just give to you.

Our reserve rules, while we still use the bucket system, are better. We fought hard for and achieved total transparency with the reserve system, so every pilot knows where they stand, as well as having a framework for assigning trips to reserve pilots. Also, we have a 12-hour long call reserve that will be a great benefit to our pilots.

We don't have dual qualification, so our 700 pilots get paid that rate all the time, including training and vacation.

There's no PBS in our contract, either.

Medical contributions are capped at 30%. I think we're at 26% right now with the increases for next year. This means that they won't be going up much more during the life of our contract.

Our profit sharing is based 75% on company margin and 25% on performance. I believe SkyWest is 50/50.

Plus, we got a big fat check from Jerry as a signing bonus.

These are the things that I was able to pick up from the TA summary, as well as talking to the CNC guys. Once the actual language comes out I think we will find more differences.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You should read the letter before you knock it. I know several ex-ASA guys that came to SKYW and agree completely with the letter. This TA is a progression for ASA pilots and I am happy that things will improve for them. But stop twisting the facts and know that what you are getting is what SKYW mostly has already been getting; besides a COLA which I wish we had. If you are pissed that you are just now getting it, well, remember, SKYW just recently bought you too. You have been in negotiations before the buyout. I wish you had some gratitude and thank the heavens you weren't bought by Mesa. Because you know that Delta approached SKYW with just as much to offer as they did Mesa. So SKYW has been a good thing. If it took awhile, well...that is how it works with a tug-o-war. But it is funny how your hate for management went from Delta/ASA to SKYW over night and it is SKYW who negotiated a deal with you. Show some gratitude and stop trying to bring your fellow pilots into your wallow. The transparency you show with the rhetoric you give is so obvious. You do not care about SKYW pilots, you are only trying to cover your own butts by encouraging us to take on ALPA. I don't wish you to get screwed, I really don't. But with a merger, you know we will get screwed. But that is ok with you. You want the good things that SKYW has to offer, all the while knockin those who got SKYW to where it is at. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

At the risk of responding to something that was meant to be pure flame bait...

1. How do you know "Delta approached SKYW with just as much to offer as they did Mesa"? Were you there? It's been pointed out that you sound an awful like management. I think it may be true... you're slipping up and showing that you know more than a line pilot would.

2. You keep saying "Show some gratitude". Why should we? We didn't ask to be bought. So what if Mesa bought us? For all SkyWest Inc has done to improve this place, I see no difference. Jerry could have fired our incompetent managers and cleaned this place up. But he didn't. Gratitude? Sure, thanks for NOTHING!

3. "Bite the hand that feeds us"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but ASA has pumped hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue and tens of millions in profits into SkyWest Inc. Our profit margins are much higher than yours. I would argue that it is US feeding YOU.

 

[SkyW120]

Could anyone post the new 401k company contrubutions in ASA's new TA? Thanks in advance.

I think ours at SkyWest are:

100% Company match:

2% 1-4 years
4% 5-9 years
6% 10+ years

 

[Medeco]

Troutbait

I hope you and others thinking along the line you are will take the time to really think through the post of Fins and Sweptback.

Its hard to argue facts and that is exactly what was givin to you in a rebuttle to your pathetic post.

Also, the "ASA GUYS" that transfered to Skywest, all 15 or so. I'd argue, that most if not all of them didnt bother to take the time to find out what ALPA/ASA was doing for them.

They made the move, for personal reasons, which is fine, but they cannot be looked at as all knowing in the history of ASA pilots and its 5 yr fight for a contract.

Bottom line differences, ASA will have a BINDING CONTRACT. SKYWEST/SAPA is nothing more than a student council board similar to high school.

Its pretty simple folks.

Medeco

 

[Troutbait]

Long Time Gone, with English as my third language, I think I do pretty darn good.
As for management, I am no where near any management position at SKYW, but I do own and manage my own business. So I am a bit familiar with the ways of the world. My brother in law was one of the lawyers on the buy deal and he has filled me in a few of the tid bits.
As for my quick upgrade, I was a captain before the buyout, so suck on that. I fear for the many new hires that picked SKYW over other places. There should

 

[Medeco]

401K company matching contributions

1 year of service 20% of the first 6% a pilot contributes

2years = 30% of first 6%

3years = 40% of first 6%

4,5,6 years = 50% of first 6%

7 years = 75% of first 6%

10 or more years = 75% of the first 8%

Company cotribution deposited monthly

New hire automatically enrolled, must opt out if desires not to participate

Non-discrimination test(highly compensated)-pilots will be tested seperately

joint retirement committee to discuss issues that may arise

 

[10nCLR]

Take that Mr. John Pennekamp says Mr. Troutbait.

 

[scarlet]

This TA should be wrapped up by Nov. 15th.? Is 6 weeks long enough? I know at Airtran it was done in 6 Weeks from T.A. to close of voting!

 

[WWEfan]

ZOMG! This clown lists PBS as an "advantage" that SKYW pilots currently enjoy over ASA pilots. And they didn't even need union representation to achieve it.

He also compares our first year captain rates to theirs as inferior. Does anyone even have first year captains? What a tool.

Too funny!

 

[SkyNation]

the only, ONLY people I've ever heard complain about PBS are on this board. they are by and large in small domiciles. before you scream and piss and moan 'well don't they count?!', you must consider the size of our pilot group. when the large majority of 2500+ calls it a benefit to their QOL, as opposed to a vocal few on this board, it seems to me that it can easily be termed an advantage.

but, bitch and moan on, I know you will.

 

[Tomct]

Long Time Gone, with English as my third language, I think I do pretty darn good.
As for management, I am no where near any management position at SKYW, but I do own and manage my own business. So I am a bit familiar with the ways of the world. My brother in law was one of the lawyers on the buy deal and he has filled me in a few of the tid bits.
As for my quick upgrade, I was a captain before the buyout, so suck on that. I fear for the many new hires that picked SKYW over other places. There should

Not even worth my time! Go BACK to your 1st language!! Probably sounds something like this...wonk...wonk.wonk...wonk...wonk! TOOL!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

the only, ONLY people I've ever heard complain about PBS are on this board. they are by and large in small domiciles. before you scream and piss and moan 'well don't they count?!', you must consider the size of our pilot group. when the large majority of 2500+ calls it a benefit to their QOL, as opposed to a vocal few on this board, it seems to me that it can easily be termed an advantage.

but, bitch and moan on, I know you will.

Did you happen to get your figures that claim "the large majority calls it a benefit" from SAPA or management??? Oh, never mind, they're one and the same!!!!

 

[SkyNation]

I get it from every single person I've flown with since it was implemented. I'm in our largest domicile, and rarely fly with the same person more than once.

where are you based? with all your seniority, has it been a boon to you?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I get it from every single person I've flown with since it was implemented. I'm in our largest domicile, and rarely fly with the same person more than once.

where are you based? with all your seniority, has it been a boon to you?

Sadly, it has not...less days off, less pay too. It can't improve our bids if the pairings are getting worse, no matter how senior one happens to be. The forced pairings don't help either!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

crew planning junk thrown into company optimization software. sounds terrible.

 

[FishandFly]

At ASA (no pbs) if you have 14 days of vacation per year you typically end up with two vacations of about 15 to 20 days off each.

How does that compare to skywest with pbs?

 

[Troutbait]

Tomct,
You are right. My first language was ALPA rhetoric long ago and it sounded just like that. But of course I should have noticed that type of remark. It comes from someone who irons their ALPA linard while drinking watered down hot cocoa from a Starbucks cup, debating on whither or not you should update the seven Jepps folders your left in your inbox, wishing ALPA would hurry and come to SKYW so that the FAA won't bust you for your laziness. With that, I guess I am a tool. All the guys screaming for ALPA's "protection" probably need it, soon.

 

[yellowfever]

Tomct,
You are right. My first language was ALPA rhetoric long ago and it sounded just like that. But of course I should have noticed that type of remark. It comes from someone who irons their ALPA linard while drinking watered down hot cocoa from a Starbucks cup, debating on whither or not you should update the seven Jepps folders your left in your inbox, wishing ALPA would hurry and come to SKYW so that the FAA won't bust you for your laziness. With that, I guess I am a tool. All the guys screaming for ALPA's "protection" probably need it, soon.

Anti-ALPA guys like to argue that ALPA supporters use scare tactics. Then some make posts insinuating they will need protection if the vote fails. Don't take a check ride from CFIT if you are pro ALPA !

 

[Troutbait]

yellowfever,
you missed the whole point. i have been at skyw a long while and i know many of the pro-union guys. Many I have flown with and many have this chip on their shoulder who feel the world is out to get them. They are the ones who like to stir the mud. Many know what kind of pilots they are and fear the FAA. Instead of changing their practices, they continue to do the stupid things they do. Either busting FARs or pissing off people in management. You must remember, we are the employee. Whatever happened to being a good one. If skyw screwed us as much as the few think, then go elsewhere, They will then see what it is that they had. I was at somewhere before skyw and think this place is not the hell hole the "world must revolve around me" type think it is. So your comment about 'if the vote fails' is so not the point. But i do like your avatar.

 

[Jmoney]

Continental

the only, ONLY people I've ever heard complain about PBS are on this board. they are by and large in small domiciles. before you scream and piss and moan 'well don't they count?!', you must consider the size of our pilot group. when the large majority of 2500+ calls it a benefit to their QOL, as opposed to a vocal few on this board, it seems to me that it can easily be termed an advantage.

but, bitch and moan on, I know you will.

Have you ever heard of Continental airlines, you tooldrawer? I know of many guys who went there from a crappy regional (ASA) which has traditional scheds and say that PBS is flatly horrible in comparison.

While I have no personal experience with PBS, these are people who had to do years of reserve at a crappy regional and the form of PBS at Continental is something they really don't like compared to their overall experiences elsewhere.

No offense, but.... (Oh, wait, strike that part-offense totally intended, Skynation.)

I am sure of one thing-I will take their word over yours, you idiot!
-You are truly a king among fools!

--A dubious distinction, but a distinction nonetheless, moron.....

 

[Medeco]

Ive asked a couple of Delta friends how they feel about PBS without giving them my opinion prior and they have both said its no good.

This coming from two people who pretty much do their job and go home, and never heard of a website called FI.com or any others similar.

One is a senior FO MD88, the other a Junior Captain on the 757

Nobody has perfect schedules, but PBS makes it worse.

Medeco

 

[viper548]

My favorite part of KB's letter was where he pointed out that SkyWest first year CRJ CA pay is still higher than ASA's first year CRJ CA pay.

So what, neither company has any first year CA's on the CRJ

 

[Troutbait]

Well it maybe true that PBS may not always work to your advantage, two things need to be remembered. You have to use your head and bid for things your seniority will hold. Thinking a 4 year captain can bid for weekends off with 2 day back to backs maybe pushing things a bit. You need to reach for apples not stars. Next, those two airlines mentioned above that also employ PBS are both ALPA, so to attack SKYW and say "The Devil!" well...it doesn't look much like ALPA is really preventing the likes of PBS either.

 

[amcnd]

My favorite part of KB's letter was where he pointed out that SkyWest first year CRJ CA pay is still higher than ASA's first year CRJ CA pay.

So what, neither company has any first year CA's on the CRJ

Not yet but SkyWest is really close!! All alpa has done is caused friction when there was none, or very little before. I would rather see something like what the Southwest pilots have (swapa). And im sure SkyWest would too. Just not ALPA...... There just not fighting for the right things now..