So... Any way to make a decent living in FW air ambulance?

[EdAtTheAirport]

There are like 5 companies that use the Lifeguard name. Which one are you referring to?

 

[avbug]

I've worked for several medevac companies. Some are very good, few are companies that are what you might call career options. All are 135 operators, most attempt to keep you on a pager, or living on site, around the clock. In many cases, your callout might be one in the afternoon, or one in the morning, and they attempt to get you to identify your rest in retrospect...an illegal act.

I interviewed with a turbojet ambulance operator several days ago who described this as their practice too. Probably a step above other operators, they were still open and honest in the interview in saying that they don't offer benifits, don't like pilots who say no, will pressure pilots to fly, and need pilots who can live with a few squawks because the airplane isn't making money if it isn't flying. Their pay was substandard for the aircraft, with no longevity, and they wanted a year contract signed for a recurrent training slot at FSI.

To some, that might sound like a good thing...but it's not.

Ambulance work...many companies fly those who can afford it, and turn down those who can't. It's a business after all. That's illegal, of course, but many do. So rewarding might be the case, if you believe picking and choosing patients on their financial status is okay...rewarding if leaving behind the truly needy is the right thing to do.

I've spent time in some of the poorest places in the country, flying out patients who lived in places that had no windows and doors, flying from dirt airstrips, and flying out of the country, too. I gave my upmost to each patient, each passenger, but I also saw the way the company tended to deal with them; they were viewed as low cost cargo.

I've been put on antibiotic programs and given shots following some patients...programs that turned my sweat orange and made the roof of my mouth burn. I've had patients spraying fluids, and have been hauled from the airplane and thrown into the mix when the ambulance crew bailed out...leaving my medical crew to fight for someone's life, with me in there getting sprayed too.

Some of the hardest things I've done have included carrying the little bodies of children who didn't make it, or sitting for six somber hours with the family of a cancer patient being flown home to die, or flying child after child to cancer centers...where they too would soon die. Someone needs to do it. But it can get to you.

Ambulance flying isn't time building, and it's different than charter or freight. When you have a patient on board who may very well die if you don't get to a particular point on the ground, or who will die if you don't fly in to pick them up, you may feel additional pressure to make the flight, rather than say "no." The ability to be able to be impartial and make safety of flight decisions based strictly on the facts, no matter what the consequences, is a responsibility that isn't always easy, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

I'll agree that ambulance work is a mission you can get behind, but I'll caution that it's definitely not for everybody. The quality of life is different...you can go anywhere, any time, and frequently do. I can't count the number of times I was called out of church, out of a movie, out of dinner, out of sleep, to take a flight. Not unlike time critical charter or freight in that respect.

At any rate, few elect to do it for more than a year or two, so no, it's not really what you'd call a career move.

 

[Hobit]

Avbug,

Is it usually a single pilot crew?

 

[avbug]

That really depends who you're working for, and what you're flying. Most kinds of operations are single pilot, but if you're flying an aircraft that requires two pilots (eg, Learjet, Westwind, etc) then it's got to be a two pilot crew.

The ability for an operator to run with just one pilot depends upon what the operator is authorized to do. A company may have operations specifications authorizing an autopilot in lieu of a SIC for operations under IFR, or it may not. Some companies advertise two pilots as a selling point, most don't.

 

[Say Again Over]

Some companies advertise two pilots as a selling point, most don't.

Right, and then there's some single pilot operations that like to advertise that there's room for a family member to ride along, not good for the pilot though.

 

[avbug]

I'm not sure why a passenger riding along isn't good for the pilot. I've carried family menbers on hundreds of ambulance flights. If it were my son or daughter, I'd want to be riding along too.

 

[Say Again Over]

From my point of view it's strictly a safety issue, the right seat is where I chose to keep charts, paper work etc., also, they are up front and personal with the control yoke, they don't necessarily follow my briefing, constantly trying to talk to me. Having a family member in the cockpit is not a safe situation, passengers belong in the cabin.

 

[kilroy]

Some of the hardest things I've done have included carrying the little bodies of children who didn't make it, or sitting for six somber hours with the family of a cancer patient being flown home to die, or flying child after child to cancer centers...where they too would soon die. Someone needs to do it. But it can get to you.

Ambulance flying isn't time building, and it's different than charter or freight. When you have a patient on board who may very well die if you don't get to a particular point on the ground, or who will die if you don't fly in to pick them up, you may feel additional pressure to make the flight, rather than say "no." The ability to be able to be impartial and make safety of flight decisions based strictly on the facts, no matter what the consequences, is a responsibility that isn't always easy, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

I'll agree that ambulance work is a mission you can get behind, but I'll caution that it's definitely not for everybody. The quality of life is different...you can go anywhere, any time, and frequently do. I can't count the number of times I was called out of church, out of a movie, out of dinner, out of sleep, to take a flight. Not unlike time critical charter or freight in that respect.

At any rate, few elect to do it for more than a year or two, so no, it's not really what you'd call a career move.

[/quote]

Very well said Avbug I lived that life for 4 years. Its hard for someone to understand what you see,hear and expeience flying around patients.

This was actually my first job in aviation and without it I might not be as far as I am today so I do owe that much to the company I flew for. We would fly over 1000+ hours a year all over the world in all kinds of weather all times of the night and usually in not very good equipment.

I actually thought this kind of flying was normal as it was my first job and the only exposure I've ever had to the aviation community.

After about 3 years I had enough hours to venture out a little and do some contract work. Wow what an eye opener. I began to realize that how we operate and what we do is far far from what the rest of the aviation community was doing. It was down right scarey to be honest.

Thats about the time started looking for a new job.

I'm not saying that all Air Ambulance companies are like this but it is a dog eat dog world with the trip going to the lowest qoute. So if the aircraft isn't moving no one is making money.

Oh yeah and you don't get tired on 91 reposition legs after 10hrs of flying in a 14 hr duty day.

Good Luck

 

[avbug]

Having a family member in the cockpit is not a safe situation, passengers belong in the cabin.

That is always your perogative and responsibility to determine, before the flight. In my opinion, if you can't control someone in the front seat, you haven't instructed and shouldn't be there, but in any case, if you can't control them, they shouldn't be there, either.

I've spent many, many hours with non-pilots in the other seat. If you've ever flown back country work, or any true working operation where every seat is at a premium in a single pilot airplane, you might feel differently.

If a passenger up front attempts to talk at a time when I need to listen to something else, I've found that simply holding up a hand is almost always enough...controlling passenger simply should not be a big deal. Put a headset on the passenger so they can communicate when needed, and hear ATC, and they quickly realize that there's a lot going on, and they will generally stay silent.

 

[AlbieF15]

c'mon, Bug...you meant you bring the BACK OF YOUR HAND across them to make a point...ala John Wayne in the High and the Might.

 

[kilroy]

I remember a couple of trips in the 340 and 414 when a very large family members sat up front. Its been so bad at times that on rotation I am pulling the yoke into a big ole belly trying to get of the ground or on the flare.

But for the most it was pleasant and it took there mind of there sick loved one in the back.

 

[avbug]

c'mon, Bug...you meant you bring the BACK OF YOUR HAND across them to make a point...ala John Wayne in the High and the Might.

The thought has crossed my mind. But not usually a passenger. A couple of times with crewmembers, a few times with management.

I flew with a gentleman years ago whose caim to fame included among other things, having knocked three copilots unconscious in flight, over the years. I tend to prefer a more subtle approach.

Choke 'em with their tie.

 

[iflyabeech]

Ha, I agree with avbug on most all of his points. I usually decline to carry a large ride along over 250 lbs due to the large size in the front seat. I am quite used to having front seat riders, and the seat is a seat-to sit in. Its not a safety issue because you like to put your charts there! Ha!
I am always prepared to throw a nasty elbow to a rowdy occupant of the copilots seat, whether occupied by an unruly pax or a jackass copilot, thats the first thing I learned flying in Alaska! HAHA

 

[CaravanMan]

We allow family members to ride on pretty much every flight that we do. The only times we don't are for weight and room, which most of the time we do have plenty of room. I've only had a family member up front with me a couple of times and, like avbug said, putting them on a headset, or raising your hand works well.

Most of the time the family rides in the seat directly behind the copilot's seat, but I had a flight not too long ago that the medcrew didn't want her riding there with the mother (patient), so they had her up front with me...they were in a really bad accident and the front seat pax had just seen her sibling die. She rode up front with me, on headset, but wtf do you say? I just listened to her. It's all you can do. That was an emotional experience. This job changes you a lot, and makes you realize how fragile life really is.

Good posts, avbug.

Regarding earlier in the thread, there are some good operators out there as well. I believe we are one of them. There is little to NO pressure to ever fly in weather that the pilot feels is unsafe. Any one of the three crew members can turn a flight down. We take flights based on patient needs; it doesn't matter if they're insured or not, we fly them. There are a lot of flights that I'm sure we don't get paid for, or maybe partial payment, but our owners are good people who believe in this service, and I'm proud to work for them. We do have benefits, and pay is, oh, average I suppose. They do have us on a pager, just as described, but that's the job. Accept it, or leave it! 135 rest and duty times are strictly adhered by as well; no monkey biz!

 

[Goose Egg]

Thanks all for the input and advice. For now I'll be an FO on the equipment pictured in my avatar, probably move to the jet in a year... and from there, we'll see what happens.

-Goose