So... Any way to make a decent living in FW air ambulance?

[Goose Egg]

Just wondering... Looks like an extremely rewarding job. Any way to make a career out of it?

Thanks
-Goose

 

[CaravanMan]

Yeah, just pick a job and stay there! It is a rewarding job, but you'll have to search around for the good and bad EMS operators out there. Look for good QOL, pay, benefits...you know, normal stuff. I like it, but I really don't want to fly a King Air for the rest of my life, either.

 

[Goose Egg]

Sweet. I can imagine what you mean about the King Air thing, although it's larger and cooler than anything I've flown so far. But it is good to know that there is decent QOL and pay to be found out there, I guess that's just what I was wondering.

Thanks!

 

[Say Again Over]

although it's larger and cooler than anything I've flown so far

The other advantage to the King Air is that you are normally home every night. Not a bad thing, plus a great airplane.

 

[Photoflight]

While it wont be my last job I do really enjoy it now. Like vanman said theres good and bad. Just do some research.

 

[Goose Egg]

Thanks all for the input. I like the idea of being home every night, and flying a cool airplane and helping people out in the process. Any ballpark figure for what I should expect for salary? How about schedule? What is considered "good?"

Also, should I plan on doing some time at the regionals, or should I see what I can get now (total time is about 1200/100) Do I need a significant amount of turbine PIC to find a good EMS job? (I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anything.)

Thanks so much guys, I wasn't expecting anyone to respond to this thread for a while, if ever.

-Goose

 

[Say Again Over]

Ok, it now seems that you are asking about career advice instead of EMS advice, I'm not qualified to help you on that subject, but from my experience, EMS flying isn't too good for building time. If you are looking for an airline career, I will let some of the regional crews step in and advise you, good luck.

 

[FlaZoomie]

Started doing air ambulance few years ago in a Lear. At start, had 2800 TT with about 1500 ME (piston). Insurance mins. of at least 2000 TT and over 1000 ME was what the company needed.

We also operate a King Air 200 and that was even more hours, 3000 TT, 1500 ME cause of the single pilot.

While you kinda have Part 135 mins, you really need to break the 2000TT and up your ME time. The insurance under writers and the insurance costs is what I think out boss goes by cause that what he has to pay.

So, either CFI it where you can get the ME or then do the regional game and get the TT/ME and turbin expierence.

By the way, there is a Twin Cessna operator that does air ambulance somplace near Corpus Christi. Have heard mins. are in your ball park. Also, might consider Cape Air.

And yes, flying sick people is very rewarding. Almost never rude, mean, upset, etc.

 

[Goose Egg]

EMS flying isn't too good for building time. If you are looking for an airline career, I will let some of the regional crews step in and advise you, good luck.

Naw, just the opposite. I'm looking for a way to spend as little time at the airlines as possible... I mean, I probably shouldn't knock it until I've tried it, but I sense that the nature of the job, if I stay there too many years, will leave me bored, frustrated, lonely, and bitter, and I don't want to live like that. It looks like I'll be a regional pilot for a little while, but it will strictly be a "get in, get time, get out" type of deal. I'd much rather find a good 91 job or a 135 EMS job that I could stay at for a while--especially if it lets me be home often.

While you kinda have Part 135 mins, you really need to break the 2000TT and up your ME time. The insurance under writers and the insurance costs is what I think out boss goes by cause that what he has to pay... So, either CFI it where you can get the ME or then do the regional game and get the TT/ME and turbin expierence.

Well, I'm definitely not going to instruct another 800 hours, at least not when there's higher pay and turbine experience to be had elsewhere, so of to the regionals I go, and I suppose that I'll start trying to build some contacts in the corporate and EMS fields in the mean time, so when I have the time I have someplace to go.

In any case, thank both of you guys for the advice. I'd love to hear anything else you have to say.

-Goose

 

[Photoflight]

we fly with co-pilots in our c90's and have an opening now. Usually upgrade after a year or so. PM me if interested.

 

[Goose Egg]

we fly with co-pilots in our c90's and have an opening now. Usually upgrade after a year or so. PM me if interested.

PM sent...

-Goose

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Air ambulance is a kick, especially if you have a ramp to load the patients. (If you don't, you'll be loading 300+ pound people while scrunched over). Home most, if not every night.

The downside is that pay hits a plateau in just a few years. You'll look over at your buddy with Company X and see that he's making twice what you are, has flown a few newer airplanes, and maybe has a cool Type on his ticket.

Great retirement flying, and good for family life, but rarely a career move. Time builds very slowly unless you're with a whore operator. Different discussion.

 

[Nolife]

The downside is that pay hits a plateau in just a few years. You'll look over at your buddy with Company X and see that he's making twice what you are, has flown a few newer airplanes, and maybe has a cool Type on his ticket.

Great retirement flying, and good for family life, but rarely a career move. Time builds very slowly unless you're with a whore operator. Different discussion.

I concur with the above. Helping people is nice but in the end you need to help your family first. Home lots, ok paycheck (my 91 buds are doing much better), getting tired of the 1am calls for a 14 hr day with 4-8 hrs flight though. Could be worse.

Ideally, I'd like to make 150k+, fly a nice plane, be home every night, and fly only 20 hrs a month. Anyone know where I can find that job?

 

[CaravanMan]

Air ambulance is a kick, especially if you have a ramp to load the patients. (If you don't, you'll be loading 300+ pound people while scrunched over). Home most, if not every night.

The downside is that pay hits a plateau in just a few years. You'll look over at your buddy with Company X and see that he's making twice what you are, has flown a few newer airplanes, and maybe has a cool Type on his ticket.

Great retirement flying, and good for family life, but rarely a career move. Time builds very slowly unless you're with a whore operator. Different discussion.

Good post.

 

[Porter]

Just don't work for Lifeguard Air Ambulance. The owner thinks pilots are blue collar and will work for nothing. He is about to find out differently.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

There are like 5 companies that use the Lifeguard name. Which one are you referring to?

 

[avbug]

I've worked for several medevac companies. Some are very good, few are companies that are what you might call career options. All are 135 operators, most attempt to keep you on a pager, or living on site, around the clock. In many cases, your callout might be one in the afternoon, or one in the morning, and they attempt to get you to identify your rest in retrospect...an illegal act.

I interviewed with a turbojet ambulance operator several days ago who described this as their practice too. Probably a step above other operators, they were still open and honest in the interview in saying that they don't offer benifits, don't like pilots who say no, will pressure pilots to fly, and need pilots who can live with a few squawks because the airplane isn't making money if it isn't flying. Their pay was substandard for the aircraft, with no longevity, and they wanted a year contract signed for a recurrent training slot at FSI.

To some, that might sound like a good thing...but it's not.

Ambulance work...many companies fly those who can afford it, and turn down those who can't. It's a business after all. That's illegal, of course, but many do. So rewarding might be the case, if you believe picking and choosing patients on their financial status is okay...rewarding if leaving behind the truly needy is the right thing to do.

I've spent time in some of the poorest places in the country, flying out patients who lived in places that had no windows and doors, flying from dirt airstrips, and flying out of the country, too. I gave my upmost to each patient, each passenger, but I also saw the way the company tended to deal with them; they were viewed as low cost cargo.

I've been put on antibiotic programs and given shots following some patients...programs that turned my sweat orange and made the roof of my mouth burn. I've had patients spraying fluids, and have been hauled from the airplane and thrown into the mix when the ambulance crew bailed out...leaving my medical crew to fight for someone's life, with me in there getting sprayed too.

Some of the hardest things I've done have included carrying the little bodies of children who didn't make it, or sitting for six somber hours with the family of a cancer patient being flown home to die, or flying child after child to cancer centers...where they too would soon die. Someone needs to do it. But it can get to you.

Ambulance flying isn't time building, and it's different than charter or freight. When you have a patient on board who may very well die if you don't get to a particular point on the ground, or who will die if you don't fly in to pick them up, you may feel additional pressure to make the flight, rather than say "no." The ability to be able to be impartial and make safety of flight decisions based strictly on the facts, no matter what the consequences, is a responsibility that isn't always easy, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

I'll agree that ambulance work is a mission you can get behind, but I'll caution that it's definitely not for everybody. The quality of life is different...you can go anywhere, any time, and frequently do. I can't count the number of times I was called out of church, out of a movie, out of dinner, out of sleep, to take a flight. Not unlike time critical charter or freight in that respect.

At any rate, few elect to do it for more than a year or two, so no, it's not really what you'd call a career move.

 

[Hobit]

Avbug,

Is it usually a single pilot crew?

 

[avbug]

That really depends who you're working for, and what you're flying. Most kinds of operations are single pilot, but if you're flying an aircraft that requires two pilots (eg, Learjet, Westwind, etc) then it's got to be a two pilot crew.

The ability for an operator to run with just one pilot depends upon what the operator is authorized to do. A company may have operations specifications authorizing an autopilot in lieu of a SIC for operations under IFR, or it may not. Some companies advertise two pilots as a selling point, most don't.

 

[Say Again Over]

Some companies advertise two pilots as a selling point, most don't.

Right, and then there's some single pilot operations that like to advertise that there's room for a family member to ride along, not good for the pilot though.

 

[avbug]

I'm not sure why a passenger riding along isn't good for the pilot. I've carried family menbers on hundreds of ambulance flights. If it were my son or daughter, I'd want to be riding along too.

 

[Say Again Over]

From my point of view it's strictly a safety issue, the right seat is where I chose to keep charts, paper work etc., also, they are up front and personal with the control yoke, they don't necessarily follow my briefing, constantly trying to talk to me. Having a family member in the cockpit is not a safe situation, passengers belong in the cabin.

 

[kilroy]

Some of the hardest things I've done have included carrying the little bodies of children who didn't make it, or sitting for six somber hours with the family of a cancer patient being flown home to die, or flying child after child to cancer centers...where they too would soon die. Someone needs to do it. But it can get to you.

Ambulance flying isn't time building, and it's different than charter or freight. When you have a patient on board who may very well die if you don't get to a particular point on the ground, or who will die if you don't fly in to pick them up, you may feel additional pressure to make the flight, rather than say "no." The ability to be able to be impartial and make safety of flight decisions based strictly on the facts, no matter what the consequences, is a responsibility that isn't always easy, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

I'll agree that ambulance work is a mission you can get behind, but I'll caution that it's definitely not for everybody. The quality of life is different...you can go anywhere, any time, and frequently do. I can't count the number of times I was called out of church, out of a movie, out of dinner, out of sleep, to take a flight. Not unlike time critical charter or freight in that respect.

At any rate, few elect to do it for more than a year or two, so no, it's not really what you'd call a career move.

[/quote]

Very well said Avbug I lived that life for 4 years. Its hard for someone to understand what you see,hear and expeience flying around patients.

This was actually my first job in aviation and without it I might not be as far as I am today so I do owe that much to the company I flew for. We would fly over 1000+ hours a year all over the world in all kinds of weather all times of the night and usually in not very good equipment.

I actually thought this kind of flying was normal as it was my first job and the only exposure I've ever had to the aviation community.

After about 3 years I had enough hours to venture out a little and do some contract work. Wow what an eye opener. I began to realize that how we operate and what we do is far far from what the rest of the aviation community was doing. It was down right scarey to be honest.

Thats about the time started looking for a new job.

I'm not saying that all Air Ambulance companies are like this but it is a dog eat dog world with the trip going to the lowest qoute. So if the aircraft isn't moving no one is making money.

Oh yeah and you don't get tired on 91 reposition legs after 10hrs of flying in a 14 hr duty day.

Good Luck

 

[avbug]

Having a family member in the cockpit is not a safe situation, passengers belong in the cabin.

That is always your perogative and responsibility to determine, before the flight. In my opinion, if you can't control someone in the front seat, you haven't instructed and shouldn't be there, but in any case, if you can't control them, they shouldn't be there, either.

I've spent many, many hours with non-pilots in the other seat. If you've ever flown back country work, or any true working operation where every seat is at a premium in a single pilot airplane, you might feel differently.

If a passenger up front attempts to talk at a time when I need to listen to something else, I've found that simply holding up a hand is almost always enough...controlling passenger simply should not be a big deal. Put a headset on the passenger so they can communicate when needed, and hear ATC, and they quickly realize that there's a lot going on, and they will generally stay silent.

 

[AlbieF15]

c'mon, Bug...you meant you bring the BACK OF YOUR HAND across them to make a point...ala John Wayne in the High and the Might.

 

[kilroy]

I remember a couple of trips in the 340 and 414 when a very large family members sat up front. Its been so bad at times that on rotation I am pulling the yoke into a big ole belly trying to get of the ground or on the flare.

But for the most it was pleasant and it took there mind of there sick loved one in the back.

 

[avbug]

c'mon, Bug...you meant you bring the BACK OF YOUR HAND across them to make a point...ala John Wayne in the High and the Might.

The thought has crossed my mind. But not usually a passenger. A couple of times with crewmembers, a few times with management.

I flew with a gentleman years ago whose caim to fame included among other things, having knocked three copilots unconscious in flight, over the years. I tend to prefer a more subtle approach.

Choke 'em with their tie.

 

[iflyabeech]

Ha, I agree with avbug on most all of his points. I usually decline to carry a large ride along over 250 lbs due to the large size in the front seat. I am quite used to having front seat riders, and the seat is a seat-to sit in. Its not a safety issue because you like to put your charts there! Ha!
I am always prepared to throw a nasty elbow to a rowdy occupant of the copilots seat, whether occupied by an unruly pax or a jackass copilot, thats the first thing I learned flying in Alaska! HAHA

 

[CaravanMan]

We allow family members to ride on pretty much every flight that we do. The only times we don't are for weight and room, which most of the time we do have plenty of room. I've only had a family member up front with me a couple of times and, like avbug said, putting them on a headset, or raising your hand works well.

Most of the time the family rides in the seat directly behind the copilot's seat, but I had a flight not too long ago that the medcrew didn't want her riding there with the mother (patient), so they had her up front with me...they were in a really bad accident and the front seat pax had just seen her sibling die. She rode up front with me, on headset, but wtf do you say? I just listened to her. It's all you can do. That was an emotional experience. This job changes you a lot, and makes you realize how fragile life really is.

Good posts, avbug.

Regarding earlier in the thread, there are some good operators out there as well. I believe we are one of them. There is little to NO pressure to ever fly in weather that the pilot feels is unsafe. Any one of the three crew members can turn a flight down. We take flights based on patient needs; it doesn't matter if they're insured or not, we fly them. There are a lot of flights that I'm sure we don't get paid for, or maybe partial payment, but our owners are good people who believe in this service, and I'm proud to work for them. We do have benefits, and pay is, oh, average I suppose. They do have us on a pager, just as described, but that's the job. Accept it, or leave it! 135 rest and duty times are strictly adhered by as well; no monkey biz!

 

[Goose Egg]

Thanks all for the input and advice. For now I'll be an FO on the equipment pictured in my avatar, probably move to the jet in a year... and from there, we'll see what happens.

-Goose