Mesa Dash 8s out of JFK

[On Your Six]

Just curious - I have heard that the Mesa/Freedom Dash 8s out of JFK are going to be exiting the pattern at some point soon (probably to the cheers of JetBlue pilots). Is this true?

If so, what will happen to those Dash 8 pilots based in the area and will the aircraft be moved elsewhere in the system? Will the Dash 8s be replaced by more Freedom ERJs? What's the plan?

It certainly can be frustrating to follow a Dash 8 at times, but I still think it is a good looking aircraft in my opinion and I've heard it is fun to fly...

 

[PropPiedmont]

It certainly can be frustrating to follow a Dash 8 at times, but I still think it is a good looking aircraft in my opinion and I've heard it is fun to fly...

Depends on who is flying the Dash and where it is. At cruise if you're following a Dash, then yes, you're hosed, but if you're in the radar/visual pattern the Dash won't be in the way.

A Dash 8 can hold 240 Kts to a short final, 3 miles. Can't do that it in a jet and still land. I've been told many, many times from ATC to slow because of a 100 knot over take on 737s, 757s, and Buses.

Having said that, Mesa tends to fly slow and mess things up in close.

 

[flythere]

Depends on who is flying the Dash and where it is. At cruise if you're following a Dash, then yes, you're hosed, but if you're in the radar/visual pattern the Dash won't be in the way.

A Dash 8 can hold 240 Kts to a short final, 3 miles. Can't do that it in a jet and still land. I've been told many, many times from ATC to slow because of a 100 knot over take on 737s, 757s, and Buses.

Having said that, Mesa tends to fly slow and mess things up in close.

Hah, this is obviously not the way MESA flys them. Having flown out of Denver for several years, I've been hosed by those SOB's so many times, I lost count. Then after they landed, they would dilly-dally around on the runway just long enough to cause the aircraft behind to go around!!!

I've been watching these QX guys out west here for the last several months, they seem to have their stuff wired. I think it's a MESA thing!!!!

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

I think it's a MESA thing!!!!

DING DING DING! We have a winner!!!

 

[T-prop]

Mesa has a ridiculous gear down policy. Gear has to be down by 1500'. Gear speed is 158, I think. Which affected the flow when told to maintain 180 to the marker.

Once configured, I would run 145kts 'till 200 gt agl, bring her to FI, cross the threshold at ~100 kts and clear the rwy 1500 ft later w/o touching brakes. This seemed to keep tower off our backs.

I am surprised Mesa hasn't lost any birds in that operation. Every captain in my crash pad experienced 2 or more emergencies in our first 300hrs there. All mx induced, anomolies.

Worst pilot training program out there. . . let alone management.

Very glad I left.

 

[pipejockey]

Just curious - I have heard that the Mesa/Freedom Dash 8s out of JFK are going to be exiting the pattern at some point soon (probably to the cheers of JetBlue pilots). Is this true?

Now if jetwho would exit the pattern along with them, we would hear cheers from ALL pilots, plus controllers, plus passengers, plus....etc etc etc!!!

 

[pdub20s]

Come Dec. the Dashs will be completely out of JFK and replaced with ERJs. At this time there is TDY for Ca/FO in JFK. Also a heads up. The IAD ERJ base for mesa is now under the Freedom Airlines cert...

 

[cq43vt17t]

Come Dec. the Dashs will be completely out of JFK and replaced with ERJs. At this time there is TDY for Ca/FO in JFK. Also a heads up. The IAD ERJ base for mesa is now under the Freedom Airlines cert...

Actually they are all out of JFK on the 21st of this month.

 

[sayagain?]

Now if jetwho would exit the pattern along with them, we would hear cheers from ALL pilots, plus controllers, plus passengers, plus....etc etc etc!!!

Yep, you're an a$$.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

Mesa has a ridiculous gear down policy. Gear has to be down by 1500'. Gear speed is 158, I think. Which affected the flow when told to maintain 180 to the marker.

Once configured, I would run 145kts 'till 200 gt agl, bring her to FI, cross the threshold at ~100 kts and clear the rwy 1500 ft later w/o touching brakes. This seemed to keep tower off our backs.

I am surprised Mesa hasn't lost any birds in that operation. Every captain in my crash pad experienced 2 or more emergencies in our first 300hrs there. All mx induced, anomolies.

Worst pilot training program out there. . . let alone management.

Very glad I left.

What is so funny about that statement is that Mesa/Freedom just won the diamond award from the FAA. TOO funny !

 

[siucavflight]

Mesa sucks.

 

[pdub20s]

Yea, I got displaced... ATL- MCO

 

[sweptback]

Yea, I got displaced... ATL- MCO

Did your ATL base close?

 

[pdub20s]

Did your ATL base close?

No, line reductions. Increase in JFK/MCO. Sorry ASA guys ;-)

 

[ROJO]

Huh?

Mesa has a ridiculous gear down policy. Gear has to be down by 1500'. Gear speed is 158, I think. Which affected the flow when told to maintain 180 to the marker.

Once configured, I would run 145kts 'till 200 gt agl, bring her to FI, cross the threshold at ~100 kts and clear the rwy 1500 ft later w/o touching brakes. This seemed to keep tower off our backs.

I am surprised Mesa hasn't lost any birds in that operation. Every captain in my crash pad experienced 2 or more emergencies in our first 300hrs there. All mx induced, anomolies.

Worst pilot training program out there. . . let alone management.

Very glad I left.

What? Where do you come up with this baloney? I flew Dash-8's at Mesa and I never heard of the stupid things you are talking about.

 

[katanabob]

What? Where do you come up with this baloney? I flew Dash-8's at Mesa and I never heard of the stupid things you are talking about.

Looks like CFM 4.8 to me. (Freedom DHC-8 CFM, Manual 980)

(2) Extension
(a) Prior to descending below 1,500 feet AFE, gear will be selected down.
(b) Verification of proper gear extension will be verified by each crewmember during the "Landing Check".

I don't have the Mesa side DHC-8 manual in front of me, but I know GH was the source of the policy and it's in both CFMs. If you're still flying the Dash at Mesa, perhaps you should better familiarize yourself with your company and aircraft procedures before you flame someone and prove yourself incompetent.

 

[T-prop]

What? Where do you come up with this baloney? I flew Dash-8's at Mesa and I never heard of the stupid things you are talking about.

That is because you went to MAPD... ...which explains a lot.

 

[pdub20s]

That is because you went to MAPD... ...which explains a lot.

and/or you left a while ago, before the ERJ tail strike and the knee-jerk/blanket response. Which is the "new(er)" stabilized approach criteria that includes the 1500' gear down policy.

Can someone please tell me how it is possible to tail strike an ERJ?

I remember learning about that in class. It took 2 crews to notice that tailstrike on a walk around.

 

[ROJO]

Looks like CFM 4.8 to me. (Freedom DHC-8 CFM, Manual 980)

(2) Extension
(a) Prior to descending below 1,500 feet AFE, gear will be selected down.
(b) Verification of proper gear extension will be verified by each crewmember during the "Landing Check".

I don't have the Mesa side DHC-8 manual in front of me, but I know GH was the source of the policy and it's in both CFMs. If you're still flying the Dash at Mesa, perhaps you should better familiarize yourself with your company and aircraft procedures before you flame someone and prove yourself incompetent.

Yes indeed, I AM very incompetent. I also don't fly for Mesa anymore....Bwah-ha ha ha! I am flying in airplanes where I can do a lot more damage with my buffoonery. I just wish to hell I'd done less sleeping in ground school. Hey, maybe you'll be flying with me next time? Now if only I could find my GOM and CFM...

 

[ROJO]

That is because you went to MAPD... ...which explains a lot.

Ouch! Yes, you are doing some fine detective work there. I have to admit, I am rather foolish in the airplane and my training and background are sub-par. I moved on to a new company not long ago, and now I bumble around in the bigger birds. I have decided, however, that I will quit this job and have a 19 year-old CFI show me how to fly for real. Maybe then I'll be worthy. I figure a few hundred or a thousand hours in a C-150 will do the trick. Thanks for helping me see the error of my ways.

 

[jetpig32]

It certainly can be frustrating to follow a Dash 8 at times, but I still think it is a good looking aircraft in my opinion and I've heard it is fun to fly...

I too would be frustrated if unable to keep up with a t-prop. We (mesa) fly out Dash 8's slow but horizon knows how to fly them correctly?

On visual, depending on how slow the jet infront is, I fly 210 until 7 miles, power idle. At 5 miles (1500 ft), 155 kias with gear selected down. From 3.5 miles (1100 ft), 140 kias configured. Off the runway within 2000 ft rollout or 10-15 seconds, depending on highspeeds available.

Here is a typical day. Notice the controllers reaction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EELeS_PVKGM

Good day.

 

[T-prop]

Ouch! Yes, you are doing some fine detective work there. I have to admit, I am rather foolish in the airplane and my training and background are sub-par. I moved on to a new company not long ago, and now I bumble around in the bigger birds. I have decided, however, that I will quit this job and have a 19 year-old CFI show me how to fly for real. Maybe then I'll be worthy...

You already had a 19 year old "show" you how to fly. The problem is, you failed to "learn" how to fly before showing up at the Mesa with 300 hrs and an attitude. An unfortunate Mesa CA had to hold your hand during your first actual IMC while 30+ pax sat unaware in the back.

There are exceptions to MAPD products. I admit that I flew with a few that were very competent. All but one were instructors and had 1000+ TT.

The attitude and knowledge that you've displayed do nothing but reinforce the MAPD stereotype.

 

[katanabob]

Yes indeed, I AM very incompetent. I also don't fly for Mesa anymore....Bwah-ha ha ha! I am flying in airplanes where I can do a lot more damage with my buffoonery. I just wish to hell I'd done less sleeping in ground school. Hey, maybe you'll be flying with me next time? Now if only I could find my GOM and CFM...

Where do these pilots come from? How many FOs have I had who thought it to be a point of pride that they didn't remember most of their limitations or memory items?

I guess professionalism isn't what it used to be.

 

[siucavflight]

Yes indeed, I AM very incompetent. I also don't fly for Mesa anymore....Bwah-ha ha ha! I am flying in airplanes where I can do a lot more damage with my buffoonery. I just wish to hell I'd done less sleeping in ground school. Hey, maybe you'll be flying with me next time? Now if only I could find my GOM and CFM...

I think that there may be a spelling error in there somewhere.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Ouch! Yes, you are doing some fine detective work there. I have to admit, I am rather foolish in the airplane and my training and background are sub-par. I moved on to a new company not long ago, and now I bumble around in the bigger birds. I have decided, however, that I will quit this job and have a 19 year-old CFI show me how to fly for real. Maybe then I'll be worthy. I figure a few hundred or a thousand hours in a C-150 will do the trick. Thanks for helping me see the error of my ways.

Oh yeah, the bigger the airplane the better the pilot, right.

Feminine freshness products come in all sizes big guy.