Asa Alpa Proposal

[79%N1]

Thats the problem. Many want a nice big check they think they are owed before they trot off to greener pastures. Others want the company to remain viable and have a future. ALPA has been guilty of dragging their feet at times, and having unrealistic proposals at times. How do you equate that into your retro wants?

 

[Tomct]

Thats the problem. Many want a nice big check they think they are owed before they trot off to greener pastures. Others want the company to remain viable and have a future. ALPA has been guilty of dragging their feet at times, and having unrealistic proposals at times. How do you equate that into your retro wants?

That we want WHAT WE DESERVE! Yeah...the Union drug their feet, but not nearly as long as the company has done. WMS has a point, they can loop hole scope/growth and make ASA go away, so I would rather have the cash in my pocket and move on!! Sorry, but that is just how it is for those of us that have been here WAAAAAAYYYY too long!

 

[ASADriver]

That we want WHAT WE DESERVE! Yeah...the Union drug their feet, but not nearly as long as the company has done. WMS has a point, they can loop hole scope/growth and make ASA go away, so I would rather have the cash in my pocket and move on!! Sorry, but that is just how it is for those of us that have been here WAAAAAAYYYY too long!

You have been here WAAAAYYYYY too long. Why don't you do us both a favor and leave. Everyone is hiring now, so you must be a real idiot if you can't get another job.

 

[VeeOne]

Have you hard what some of the people have been raving about??? Some clown I flew with thought he was owed 40K in retro pay. Even if he got a 10% raise on the 50 seater, there is no way in h$ll he's managed to rack up a 40K tab. He's bought into it because of the feeding frenzy. Also, 100% retro is a joke because it would take an army to figure out who is owed what. Payroll can't even get my normal pay check correct most of the time. It's gonna have to be a signing bonus, and it will have to be divied up by seniority, etc.

As for who's who here, it isn't the wisest thing to broadcast. Everyone here (for the most part) wishes to be anonymous. Otherwise, there would be a complete list of names on the ALPA board. Give me a break with the outting already. Many wouldn't have the ability to seperate the board from work anyway and there would be a rash of cockpit issues, and the inevitable First Officer write ups. What a joke that is- and it isn't safe, either. Could you imagine if OhPlease and TomCT flew togeather????

 

[wms]

Giving up the money is not going to change what happens to ASA. They'll do what they think is best for SKYW,Inc either way. But scope is an empty promise they'll make (maybe) with no intention of keeping. And changing the direction of negotiations won't settle this any faster. Whatever the primary issue is, the contract will be settled at 2330 on day 29. That's just the way it is.

 

[WWEfan]

Could you imagine if OhPlease and TomCT flew togeather????

I would pay to be on that jumpseat.

 

[79%N1]

Giving up the money is not going to change what happens to ASA. They'll do what they think is best for SKYW,Inc either way. But scope is an empty promise they'll make (maybe) with no intention of keeping. And changing the direction of negotiations won't settle this any faster. Whatever the primary issue is, the contract will be settled at 2330 on day 29. That's just the way it is.

And the aircraft transfers to Skywest will begin at 0001.

 

[wms]

And the aircraft transfers to Skywest will begin at 0001.

Whether we get a raise and retro or not. If they're gonna do it they're gonna do it. At least when it's all over you could still have your spine.

 

[twott driver]

here here

 

[Redan]

Whether we get a raise and retro or not. If they're gonna do it they're gonna do it. At least when it's all over you could still have your spine.

This is the fundamental point that so many don't seem to get.

 

[GeekMaster]

Redan, WMS and all,

You guys are exactly backwards on this "fundamental point" of aircraft transfers. On one hand, I could scratch my head and ask, "where in the world did this mentality come from?". But, I know the answer to that question. It was funneled down to you either directly or through your ALPA reps from our now retired chairman Bob Arnold. The problem is that it got "bent" from its original version. What he "actually" used to stress to the pilot group concerned "growth airplanes". "There going to put growth airplans where they're needed regardless of pilot pay" was his battle cry. At the time, there may have been an element of truth to that considering SKW didn't have an ATL base, DFW was still open and SLC was the home of SKW.

Now SKW has an evergrowing ATL base along with several other regionals by the end of the year and ASA has been concentrated to a single ATL base sharing it with the crowd. Now this isn't "about growth" it's about sustaining. Now we actually DO have to compete for our flying based on cost.

Does that mean we are joining the "race for the bottom"? No it doesn't. Fortunately, now that Mesa is in section 6 with a single list, the race for the bottom should just about be done. The race we DO have to join is with our very own parent company. See they have an open choice as to where to put their airplanes. There is a HUGE advantage to having two certificates and two different airlines for them. Controlling costs is one of them, but there are others that many of you are totally missing. If costs are somewhat equal at both places, we could "actually" become competitive for once in bidding for other flying outside the DCI system due to no compete clauses with SKW air.

It costs alot to move an airplane. Even with the help of the A/C manufacturers paying training costs and eliminating much of the mtc costs through A/C retirements and new A/C awards, it still costs SKW inc to move them. Reducing the size of ASA minimizes their effectiveness in the business community at large. We would be MUCH MORE VALUABLE to them if we remained large with a cost structure similar to the other side of their operation.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TRANSFER A/C "ANYWAY", THEY'RE ONLY GOING TO TRANFER THEM IF WE GIVE THEM NO BETTER CHOICE !!

 

[VeeOne]

Very true GeekMaster. Besides- we have already demonstrated that we have a spine anyways. We could have taken the bait for the 900's and we didn't. That says something right there. Mesa needs the spine- we already have ours. Stamp some cola on this thing and get it done!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Redan, WMS and all,

You guys are exactly backwards on this "fundamental point" of aircraft transfers. On one hand, I could scratch my head and ask, "where in the world did this mentality come from?". But, I know the answer to that question. It was funneled down to you either directly or through your ALPA reps from our now retired chairman Bob Arnold. The problem is that it got "bent" from its original version. What he "actually" used to stress to the pilot group concerned "growth airplanes". "There going to put growth airplans where they're needed regardless of pilot pay" was his battle cry. At the time, there may have been an element of truth to that considering SKW didn't have an ATL base, DFW was still open and SLC was the home of SKW.

Now SKW has an evergrowing ATL base along with several other regionals by the end of the year and ASA has been concentrated to a single ATL base sharing it with the crowd. Now this isn't "about growth" it's about sustaining. Now we actually DO have to compete for our flying based on cost.

Does that mean we are joining the "race for the bottom"? No it doesn't. Fortunately, now that Mesa is in section 6 with a single list, the race for the bottom should just about be done. The race we DO have to join is with our very own parent company. See they have an open choice as to where to put their airplanes. There is a HUGE advantage to having two certificates and two different airlines for them. Controlling costs is one of them, but there are others that many of you are totally missing. If costs are somewhat equal at both places, we could "actually" become competitive for once in bidding for other flying outside the DCI system due to no compete clauses with SKW air.

It costs alot to move an airplane. Even with the help of the A/C manufacturers paying training costs and eliminating much of the mtc costs through A/C retirements and new A/C awards, it still costs SKW inc to move them. Reducing the size of ASA minimizes their effectiveness in the business community at large. We would be MUCH MORE VALUABLE to them if we remained large with a cost structure similar to the other side of their operation.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TRANSFER A/C "ANYWAY", THEY'RE ONLY GOING TO TRANFER THEM IF WE GIVE THEM NO BETTER CHOICE !!

Excellent post.

 

[wms]

Very true GeekMaster. Besides- we have already demonstrated that we have a spine anyways. We could have taken the bait for the 900's and we didn't. That says something right there. Mesa needs the spine- we already have ours. Stamp some cola on this thing and get it done!

We had a spine, but I don't know what happened to it. We'll look pretty foolish when we trade money for scope only to find out they were going to merge us anyway. SCOPE CAN AND WILL BE LOOP-HOLED OR NEGOTIATED AWAY, but money in your pocket is yours. We look pretty foolish now, considering giving in on pay to the airline with highest profit margin in the industry.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

....so you must be a real idiot if you can't get another job.

Same thing might be said about you given that 737 type rating burning a hole in your wallet.....

 

[Tomct]

You have been here WAAAAYYYYY too long. Why don't you do us both a favor and leave. Everyone is hiring now, so you must be a real idiot if you can't get another job.

Guess that type rating did not get you your job did it JACKAZZ! I guess that is WHY everyone calls you AZZdriver!

Beat me too it Freight!

 

[JoeMerchant]

We had a spine, but I don't know what happened to it. We'll look pretty foolish when we trade money for scope only to find out they were going to merge us anyway. SCOPE CAN AND WILL BE LOOP-HOLED OR NEGOTIATED AWAY, but money in your pocket is yours. We look pretty foolish now, considering giving in on pay to the airline with highest profit margin in the industry.

How was that money in the PDT, ALG, CCAir, ACA, CMR, Air Wisc., and Mesaba contracts? Didn't mean much when they were replaced did it?

 

[JoeMerchant]

ASA Aviator, Geek Mastor, Vee One, et al....

Your preaching is right on, but it is falling on deaf ears. The union leadership, with the exception of DU, thinks they know better than you. They actually believe that they are smarter than you, and that they are doing what is best for you.

If you want to change the direction, then you will have to challenge their position. If not, they will continue to follow the current path. One of the voting members actually told me that the pilots were "stupid" and he had to do what is best for them.

I know you don't want to go to the next level, but you will have to if you want to actually change the direction of this MEC.....