Joe Merchant and John Pennekamp

[FUZZO]

JM and JP,

honest question just to know where both of you are coming from, but did either of you ever want or have aspirations to go to another airline in your career? Thanks just curious.

 

[mcjohn]

Who are those guys?

 

[JoeMerchant]

JM and JP,

honest question just to know where both of you are coming from, but did either of you ever want or have aspirations to go to another airline in your career? Thanks just curious.

At one time.....Yes for me. Times have changed, and I am adapting to the new reality.

Regardless of whether I or JP wanted to go to another carrier, the fact that half of the domestic legacy flying is done by "stepping stone" airlines is now part of the problem. You can't raise the bar if these jobs are just "stepping stone" jobs.

ASA is being flooded by 300 hour pilots who just want to fly a jet, and then go to the majors where they can fly a really big jet around the world.... we are creating our own problem....

I am now doing what is best for ME.... as are most people in this profession....

All things being even, I would just as soon fly the aircraft in my avatar to St. Somewhere..... the lure of the "major international widebody" pilot doesn't really interest me..... I actually enjoy my ATR...... 12+years now.....

Why do you ask?

 

[FUZZO]

JM,

Both you and JP have very strong opinions and views and for me I just wanted to know about the messengers in the course of evaluating some of the things you guys point out.

Thanks

 

[acarpe3448]

At one time.....Yes for me. Times have changed, and I am adapting to the new reality.

Regardless of whether I or JP wanted to go to another carrier, the fact that half of the domestic legacy flying is done by "stepping stone" airlines is now part of the problem. You can't raise the bar if these jobs are just "stepping stone" jobs.

ASA is being flooded by 300 hour pilots who just want to fly a jet, and then go to the majors where they can fly a really big jet around the world.... we are creating our own problem....

I am now doing what is best for ME.... as are most people in this profession....

All things being even, I would just as soon fly the aircraft in my avatar to St. Somewhere..... the lure of the "major international widebody" pilot doesn't really interest me..... I actually enjoy my ATR...... 12+years now.....

Why do you ask?

And the best thing for him is that he does not want to start over at the bottom of a major's senority list, so just change the rules get rid of scope and lets get the bigger iron on their property! That is the problem!

 

[Blucher]

I too am on pins and needles, anxiously awaiting JP's answer to that question. Even though deep down, I know it's irrelevant. A bit like asking a news anchor who he/she's voting for, even if they tell you, they're probably full of shiite.

-Blucher

 

[JoeMerchant]

And the best thing for him is that he does not want to start over at the bottom of a major's senority list, so just change the rules get rid of scope and lets get the bigger iron on their property! That is the problem!

The problem acarpe, is that this profession is full of people who do what is best for themselves, as you have done. The idea that ALPA is some kind of "brotherhood" is utterly ubsurd.... Airline pilots will do what is best for them, and they don't really think very long term... It isn't the best thing for the profession, but it is what it is....

If you can't beat'em, join'em.......

At Delta, it would be 8-10 years before I broke even..... I plan on being retired by then.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I too am on pins and needles, anxiously awaiting JP's answer to that question. Even though deep down, I know it's irrelevant. A bit like asking a news anchor who he/she's voting for, even if they tell you, they're probably full of shiite.

-Blucher

So Blucher, do you think my answer was "full of shiite"? I am more honest about these issues than most...

 

[JoeMerchant]

JM,

Both you and JP have very strong opinions and views and for me I just wanted to know about the messengers in the course of evaluating some of the things you guys point out.

Thanks

Your welcome FUZZO, what are your thoughts on the issues that JP and I have raised? For the record, JP and I don't think a like..... we are still very different on certain issues. However, we are both former ALPA "radicals", and we both understand the realities of the current situation. I can't speak for JP, but I don't like our situation, I just accept it....

 

[ASARJMan]

Maybe, just maybe, Joey & JP are one and the same.

 

[Blucher]

So Blucher, do you think my answer was "full of shiite"? I am more honest about these issues than most...

Yes, to a point that is correct. However, you refuse to admit that it all stems from one massive case of sour grapes. The big boys wouldn't let you into the treehouse to play, so you got your magnifying glass out and have been attempting to burn down that tree ever since. The problem is that you claim to be doing it because the treehouse is a hazard to the community and you are purely concerned with looking out for the welfare of any who may get hurt by playing in said treehouse. What's really scary is that over the years you've managed to convince yourself of your own righteousness, while simultaneously doing wrong.
You do have a large new crop of people to spread your gossiple onto, but your recent performance in an elected position did your message a tremendous disservice. Many now simply disregard what you are saying (and I'll freely admit, sometimes I agree with you and believe you are correct) just because it's coming from you. Actions do, in fact, speak louder than words. And actions speak exponentially louder than repetitive postings on multiple webboards.

-Blucher

 

[FUZZO]

JM,


My opinion will be different than yours, of course. I understand where you sit you have a different "sight" picture than mine(you are at ASA, I am at Delta), but i was at ASA many moons ago.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

All things being even, I would just as soon fly the aircraft in my avatar to St. Somewhere..... the lure of the "major international widebody" pilot doesn't really interest me..... I actually enjoy my ATR...... 12+years now.....

Just to interject something totally irrelevant to the discussion...... I would much rather be flying the aircraft in your avatar to St. Somewhere.... I flew a little freight down in the islands before coming here and it was the most enjoyable flying I've done to date. Unfortunately, it barely paid the rent....

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Maybe, just maybe, Joey & JP are one and the same.

They're not. I'm 99% sure on that one.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Maybe, just maybe, Joey & JP are one and the same.

Trust me RJMan, we are not the same..... he is a pinko left winger...... I am more of a Neal Boortz/Rush Limbaugh type...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes, to a point that is correct. However, you refuse to admit that it all stems from one massive case of sour grapes. The big boys wouldn't let you into the treehouse to play, so you got your magnifying glass out and have been attempting to burn down that tree ever since. The problem is that you claim to be doing it because the treehouse is a hazard to the community and you are purely concerned with looking out for the welfare of any who may get hurt by playing in said treehouse. What's really scary is that over the years you've managed to convince yourself of your own righteousness, while simultaneously doing wrong.
You do have a large new crop of people to spread your gossiple onto, but your recent performance in an elected position did your message a tremendous disservice. Many now simply disregard what you are saying (and I'll freely admit, sometimes I agree with you and believe you are correct) just because it's coming from you. Actions do, in fact, speak louder than words. And actions speak exponentially louder than repetitive postings on multiple webboards.

-Blucher

That is partly because the ALPA establishment has lied about my beliefs to make my position look less credible. The fact is, if you disagree with ALPA in public (especially if you support a lawsuit against it), you are shunned and excluded from the process. The number one cardinal sin in ALPA is to publically speak ill of it... that is the kiss of death...

At one time, I was the ASA and CMR MECs number one advocate during the PID..... I believed it was the way to return ALPA to true collective bargaining.. sadly, even the ASA and CMR MECs succumbed to political pressure and disavowed their beliefs....

Politics doesn't usually solve problems, and I am not a politician.......

 

[JoeMerchant]

JM,


My opinion will be different than yours, of course. I understand where you sit you have a different "sight" picture than mine(you are at ASA, I am at Delta), but i was at ASA many moons ago.

FUZZO,

You are absolutely correct that "sight" pictures are different, and thus form ones opinions. The average Delta pilot doesn't really care what happens to me, and to be perfectly honest, I don't care what happens to them... We are looking out for number one, and that is ALPA's number one problem.....

For the record, I understand your "sight" picture as I once had it myself.... I made some of the same arguments that my opponents once made.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Just to interject something totally irrelevant to the discussion...... I would much rather be flying the aircraft in your avatar to St. Somewhere.... I flew a little freight down in the islands before coming here and it was the most enjoyable flying I've done to date. Unfortunately, it barely paid the rent....

I agree, but I just wanted to point out that I don't have "SJS"..... Schedule and time off are more important to me, and I actually prefer "low and slow".....

 

[JoeMerchant]

They're not. I'm 99% sure on that one.

See we agree on some things....:>)

 

[FmrFreightDog]

So... the big question....

Certainly Fuzzo isn't actually Fuzzo.... right???

 

[Medeco]

JB,

The problem is that you are no better than the problem you have with the ALPA folks.

You see, management just sits back and lets you put the scare into everyone for them. The only thing they have to do is sit back and say nothing, and by saying nothing, combined with your conspiracy/sky is falling mentality, they scare all the new kids on the block, plus the less informed into thinking ASA is going to shut down over night.

You have, as stated before, convinced yourself that everything you say is the gospel.

So far, all you have is predictions, nothing drastic has happened at ASA. And, all the changes that have happened can easliy be debated with facts.

Now, I have no doubt that Skywest had busting ALPA in mind when they closed SLC for ASA, and tried transferring the 12 700's.

Let me ask you and WF this.

Why shouldnt ASA ALPA push things till a cooling off period is achieved at which point our ASA MEC in the 11th hour offers a reasonable contract with in line hourly payrates on all planes, BUT demands scope with INC. in order to advert a strike? Scope or strike.

I know, I know, you dont think we will get the 30 day, I disagree and I dont want to hear your repeated argument again. It bores me.


Bottom line, you have done more harm to the efforts of this ASA pilot group then any one person could have hoped to do, by repeatedly posting your informed but misguided rants over and over.

Medeco

 

[JoeMerchant]

JB,

The problem is that you are no better than the problem you have with the ALPA folks.

You see, management just sits back and lets you put the scare into everyone for them. The only thing they have to do is sit back and say nothing, and by saying nothing, combined with your conspiracy/sky is falling mentality, they scare all the new kids on the block, plus the less informed into thinking ASA is going to shut down over night.

I never said ASA would "shut down over night". It is that kind of lie that does nothing to further any meaningful debate. I have stated numerous times that ASA will not go away entirely regardless of what happens... Skywest needs the certificate. I do see ASA being much smaller than it is today if we continue with our demands.... I honestly believe that, and there is plenty of previous examples of what can happen to high cost operators in the portfolio environment - ACA, Air Wisc., CMR, Mesaba, ALG, PDT, CCAir, etc...

It is the "less informed" that you mention that are screaming the loudest that we can "demand" what "we are worth"... that simply isn't true...

You have, as stated before, convinced yourself that everything you say is the gospel.

I have my opinions as do you.... we are both entitled to them. I have never once said that my opinions are "gospel". In contrast, there are many, yourself included, that seem to take ALPA's word as "gospel".... I would be cautious of that..

So far, all you have is predictions, nothing drastic has happened at ASA. And, all the changes that have happened can easliy be debated with facts.

Now, I have no doubt that Skywest had busting ALPA in mind when they closed SLC for ASA, and tried transferring the 12 700's.

Skywest diverted firm ASA 900 orders to Skywest, which are now being flown in ATL. Skywest diverted ASA 700s to Skywest. We have received 700s from Comair - the second time we have received CMR aircraft. I believe the 200s will be reduced... the question is whether we will get 700/900s to replace them with. I believe that Jerry's threat has merit.... obviously you think it is a bluff. I don't think it is a bluff...

Let me ask you and WF this.

Why shouldnt ASA ALPA push things till a cooling off period is achieved at which point our ASA MEC in the 11th hour offers a reasonable contract with in line hourly payrates on all planes, BUT demands scope with INC. in order to advert a strike? Scope or strike.

I know, I know, you dont think we will get the 30 day, I disagree and I dont want to hear your repeated argument again. It bores me.

Why did you ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer? We won't get a release based on our current demands. My opinion hasn't changed for 5 years now. That is based on my experience with a Democratic NMB - one that was even more favorable to labor than the current one. Sorry if you can't handle the truth, but it is what it is...

As far as scope, why isn't a single list part of it? I might be willing to jump on board if I thought the scope was worth the fight... as it is currently proposed, it is simply a waste of time...

Bottom line, you have done more harm to the efforts of this ASA pilot group then any one person could have hoped to do, by repeatedly posting your informed but misguided rants over and over.

Medeco

Sorry Medeco, but I honestly believe that ALPA is doing harm to the ASA pilot group.... What should I do.... simply watch the train wreck and keep my mouth shut? I believe that ALPA is doing harm to the ASA pilot group.... they are well intentioned, but they are picking a fight that we can't win....

 

[Speedtape]

At one time.....Yes for me. Times have changed, and I am adapting to the new reality.

Regardless of whether I or JP wanted to go to another carrier, the fact that half of the domestic legacy flying is done by "stepping stone" airlines is now part of the problem. You can't raise the bar if these jobs are just "stepping stone" jobs.

ASA is being flooded by 300 hour pilots who just want to fly a jet, and then go to the majors where they can fly a really big jet around the world.... we are creating our own problem....

I am now doing what is best for ME.... as are most people in this profession....

All things being even, I would just as soon fly the aircraft in my avatar to St. Somewhere..... the lure of the "major international widebody" pilot doesn't really interest me..... I actually enjoy my ATR...... 12+years now.....

Why do you ask?

JM,

Were you not a "Pay for Training" candidate?

 

[CaptWidgeon]

All things being even, I would just as soon fly the aircraft in my avatar to St. Somewhere.....

Amen to that brother. geez if i could fly a grumman around the islands, live on the beach in a doublewide, a nice doublewide now, i'd be there.

cheers to the boats.

 

[John Pennekamp]

JM and JP,

honest question just to know where both of you are coming from, but did either of you ever want or have aspirations to go to another airline in your career? Thanks just curious.

Yes.

JM,

Both you and JP have very strong opinions and views and for me I just wanted to know about the messengers in the course of evaluating some of the things you guys point out.

Thanks

Now let me ask you some questions.

Why are you asking JM questions for me? Why have you only targeted JM and me despite at least 20 people on here echoing our messages? You really didn't develop and articulate your thoughts well. Tell us why it matters if we EVER wanted to move on. How would the answer change your opinion of us if the answer was unexpected?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Just to interject something totally irrelevant to the discussion...... I would much rather be flying the aircraft in your avatar to St. Somewhere.... I flew a little freight down in the islands before coming here and it was the most enjoyable flying I've done to date. Unfortunately, it barely paid the rent....

Depends what the freight is. If you're doing it at night, 50 feet off the water with no transponder and several bales of hay in the back, it pays.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Trust me RJMan, we are not the same..... he is a pinko left winger...... I am more of a Neal Boortz/Rush Limbaugh type...

God help ya...

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Depends what the freight is. If you're doing it at night, 50 feet off the water with no transponder and several bales of hay in the back, it pays.

Unfortunately, no, it was more like the, "I get a W-2 at the end of the year" kind of freight.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Unfortunately, no, it was more like the, "I get a W-2 at the end of the year" kind of freight.

At least you had job stability... comparatively.

 

[acarpe3448]

The problem acarpe, is that this profession is full of people who do what is best for themselves, as you have done. The idea that ALPA is some kind of "brotherhood" is utterly ubsurd.... Airline pilots will do what is best for them, and they don't really think very long term... It isn't the best thing for the profession, but it is what it is....

If you can't beat'em, join'em.......

At Delta, it would be 8-10 years before I broke even..... I plan on being retired by then.....

Give me one example how I have done "what is best for me" that has tried to, or has hurt any other pilot group! I did the flight instruction thing, I worked at two regionals for a total of eight years, and then I applied to a got my job!