Citation down in Milwaukee,

[chuckthepilot]

Organ team, 6 feared dead. Be careful out there.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070605/NEWS01/706050406/-1/NEWS

 

[Wingman10]

Citation in Milwaukee

GOD bless those that lost their lives and their families.

 

[airplane wizard]

I just heard they had a pitch trim runaway.

 

[Crobar]

They talk about that in training all the time, if it's up you just bank 90 degrees til she falls level again, doing it over and over til you pull the breaker. Anyone ever had a elec trim nose down runaway, guess inverted might be the only way to control that.

 

[SEVEN]

I just heard they had a pitch trim runaway.

Heard the same thing. Sad.

 

[CMI]

They talk about that in training all the time, if it's up you just bank 90 degrees til she falls level again, doing it over and over til you pull the breaker. Anyone ever had a elec trim nose down runaway, guess inverted might be the only way to control that.

Does that work at 2000 MSL? Sounds like they were low when it happened.

 

[goodgig]

So I take it there is no trim wheel?
There is not some other means of stopping that? Most a/c have a few ways to stop it??
Just curious about the setup, not speculating.......

 

[Morgan5s]

Pitch Trim

There is a manual pitch trim wheel.....left of the throttle quadrant.....

 

[sligo1]

Very Sad

We should all pray for the crew and passegers first of all. Its easy being a monday morning quaterback in any aviation accident. Yes it would have alleviated the problem in theory by pulling the circut breaker ( On the CA side bottom row towards the front of the panel. Yes the trim wheel can be manually positioned, but when its happening by the time it is realized who knows what anyone's reaction might be. Unfortunatley its how we all learn and hopefully if it happens to anyone else they might be able to react in a manner that will be able to get the aircraft under controll.

God Bless the families of the victims

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Sad to hear. I hope the patient can find another donor really soon.

Circuit breakers can be very hard to find in an emergency especially if your company has a bunch of old airplanes with the breakers located in different places like my company. The 90 degree bank technique sounds like a very good idea.
Also, consider switching off the batteries, generators, and inverters if needed; all electrical. It might be easier than searching for a circuit breaker. Hopefully you're VMC; you'll be without instruments for a while, get ready to fly the standby gyro, but it might be the lesser of two problems.

 

[airplane wizard]

Do the Citations have break away controls like the commercial planes do so If the elevator jammed you could "disconnect" the Capt. yoke and fly with the FO/s yoke?

 

[ultrarunner]

Do the Citations have break away controls like the commercial planes do so If the elevator jammed you could "disconnect" the Capt. yoke and fly with the FO/s yoke?

Nope, just a basic cable and pulley system.

 

[Tug Driver]

the patient got a new set of lungs today.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

They talk about that in training all the time, if it's up you just bank 90 degrees til she falls level again, doing it over and over til you pull the breaker. Anyone ever had a elec trim nose down runaway, guess inverted might be the only way to control that.

Had the same thing happen to me last month in the Citation VII (no manual backup trim in that, only a secondary pitch trim system) but what happens (as it did with me) if it is a forward runaway pitch trip and not an aft runaway pitch trim? What then? You cannot "unload" the aircraft by banking 90 degrees with a forward runaway pitch trim Crobar. Lucky for me the secondary pitch trim system worked fine.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Don't know about the citation, but this has been a big issue for the CRJ. There is no manual backup on the CRJ and you are out of luck after you disconnect it but it should be controllable assuming you don't let it run to the stop. Extending flaps or opening the flight spoilers are remedies to relieve control pressure, but if the trim goes too far, and depending on your speed, etc., you're probably out of luck. I'm really surprised some of these airplanes don't have manual trim wheels for the pitch axis. Surely a money-saving design by the manufacturers.

 

[inthewind]

I had a similar thing fappen to me in the Lear35, stuck my knee behind the yoke to keep the nose down till I could find the trim switch in the dark. Lucky that I'm 6'3" in a Lear

 

[Say Again Over]

How was it discovered to be a trim runaway?

 

[airplane wizard]

I guess the pilots reported it to the tower when they declared an emergency. I don't know how much you can rely on what the news says though.

 

[BushwickBill]

Don't know about the citation, but this has been a big issue for the CRJ. There is no manual backup on the CRJ and you are out of luck after you disconnect it but it should be controllable assuming you don't let it run to the stop. Extending flaps or opening the flight spoilers are remedies to relieve control pressure, but if the trim goes too far, and depending on your speed, etc., you're probably out of luck. I'm really surprised some of these airplanes don't have manual trim wheels for the pitch axis. Surely a money-saving design by the manufacturers.

Pilatus doesn't have a manual trim either. This made me feel uncomfortable. No doubt a cost saving measure.

RIP

 

[Galaxy]

Ahh it was a C550. They all have a manual trim wheel next to the pilots right knee. It also has a BIG RED trim/AP Disconnect button on the yoke.