CFI Military Competency

[Huggyu2]

The comment period for the NPRM to make it easier for military instructor pilots to get their CFI certificate has passed. Now what? If they decide to go though with this, how long will it take?
If you know these answers, please chime in.

 

[midlifeflyer]

There's no required schedule. If the FAA has one in mind, I haven't seen it.

Once the comment period is over, an agency can head right to the final rule, extend the comment period, or drop the whole thing. At times, the comments themselves raise questions and the agency writes a new proposed with a new comment period. Even if the agency goes straight to final rule, the wading through the comments and making changes and corrections, writing the final rule and the "Supplemental Information" (explanation and commentary) that goes along with it takes time and may give way to other priorities.

 

[Huggyu2]

Thank you.
I went through the changes being proposed: it's a pretty long list. And I suppose that means lots of time weigh it.

 

[AC560]

Thank you.
I went through the changes being proposed: it's a pretty long list. And I suppose that means lots of time weigh it.

Well when you get yours if you don't have it already you can give me my high altitude endorsement.

 

[Razor_B]

This is from another message board:

John Lynch is the POC.

I wrote to Mr. Lynch this mornining, his response below:

The comment period closed on the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking on May 8.
The rulemaking team is reviewing the comments and have begun drafting the
final rule. To date, we have not established a time schedule for issuing
the final rule, but the plans are for a November 2007 issuance timeframe
for the final rule. Normally, the rule becomes effective within 30 days
after the issuance date. The majority of the comments have been positive
for the military flight instructor proposal.


John D. Lynch
AFS-810
(202) 267-3844

 

[nosehair]

What is that proposal? I haven't heard / read anything in CFI military comp.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Here is a thread from another forum about it:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/showthread.php?t=9606

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The problem with this rule change will be that while the military instructor pilots can teach (no doubt) this is only about half of what a civilian CFI must have knowledge of. For example: Mastery of part 61 is the most important thing as far as keeping your students legal as well as qualifying them for solo and solo X-C, as well as qualifying them and endorsing their students for their flight tests. Military pilots unfortunately have no knowledge of these areas of pilot certification or of the PTS, the Airplane Flying Handbook, or the many AC's that pilots are held responsible for.

 

[Huggyu2]

The problem with this rule change will be that while the military instructor pilots can teach (no doubt) this is only about half of what a civilian CFI must have knowledge of. For example: Mastery of part 61 is the most important thing as far as keeping your students legal as well as qualifying them for solo and solo X-C, as well as qualifying them and endorsing their students for their flight tests. Military pilots unfortunately have no knowledge of these areas of pilot certification or of the PTS, the Airplane Flying Handbook, or the many AC's that pilots are held responsible for.

This is true with many pilots. However, those that plan to pursue instructing new pilots for their PPL will spend the time to learn those intricacies before they sign their name to a legal document. Just like a 22 year old civilian pilot that runs through Sheble's quick-and-dirty CFI checkout.
All of my friends that want their CFI have no intent to do this, with the exception of teaching their kids to fly.
For me, I would like it because it is a credential that I need to open some other aviation avenues I'm pursuing.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

This is true with many pilots. However, those that plan to pursue instructing new pilots for their PPL will spend the time to learn those intricacies before they sign their name to a legal document. Just like a 22 year old civilian pilot that runs through Sheble's quick-and-dirty CFI checkout.
All of my friends that want their CFI have no intent to do this, with the exception of teaching their kids to fly.
For me, I would like it because it is a credential that I need to open some other aviation avenues I'm pursuing.

I am sure you have heard the expression, "A little knowledge is dangerous." That is the case here except it is most dangerous to the military IP/civilian CFI converts. I am not concerned about the safely of the new CFI's students, mostly my concern is for the FAA certificates of the newly converted CFI. As far as the FAA is concerned one "Oh $hit" is not off-set by any number of "at-a-boys," including any number of air medals. One mistake and the FAA will come after a CFI with full force including certificate action (suspension or revocation). Trust me, there is much complexity to civilian certification and while I fully support some type of an easy conversion for military flight instructors to civilian, I do believe that at least an in depth oral test is necessary for the instructors sake. And as you look at the motivation of your statements, "All of my friends that want their CFI have no intent to do this (teach flying), with the exception of teaching their kids to fly. For me, I would like it because it is a credential that I need to open some other aviation avenues I'm pursuing. The question must then be: Why even get the CFI if you feel you would really not be qualified to use it. And if you're really not qualified to use it, I would think that the last students you would want is your own children. The FAA certified CFI is not for just teaching people to fly, his or her job is getting them properly certified. If you want to just let your kids fly a little and move the controls, you don't need a CFI certificate for that. FYI: I know of a well established CFI who was generally speaking in good stead with the FAA office, he made one mistake on an endorsement and the FAA came after him. The CFI thought it was just a misunderstanding. The result: A one year revocation of all pilot and instructor certificates.

 

[Huggyu2]

Let me clarify that I didn't write, nor will I be, "...really not qualified to use it." I've already been working toward it, and will be ready/prepared when I do use my CFI certificate. My plan for using it is not for teaching basic flight instruction. But I will be using the certificate.
But you did made some good comments. Thank you for your insight and viewpoints.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Thank you for your insight and viewpoints.

You are welcome. I hope I am not discouraging you and I'm pleased to see that you are now taking training to be certified under the current procedures. As I am sure you are learning, there is much to become acquainted with. As a CFI you are expected to be an expert on Part 61. I think you must now be aware of how a military IP could easily get himself into trouble by something as simple as signing off a flight review and maybe forgetting to show 1-Hour of ground school given, or signing off a student for X-C when the 90 day solo endorsement had lapsed or the 24-months of the student certificate/Class III medical had expired. While these points may seem minor, they are all MAJOR to the FAA.

 

[Huggyu2]

You are absolutely correct. I'm brushing up on this stuff slowly, but constantly, and my civilian CFI buddies are routinely asked "what about this" questions from me. And when the time comes when/if I start using it, you can bet I'll get some prep done, and buy my buddy who's a Designated Examiner many beers to get me up to snuff.
None of us can afford to get our licence suspended.

 

[Razor_B]

military instructor pilots can teach (no doubt)

This is what is key. Let's not loose sight of this fact. There is a huge talent pool out there that hasn't been tapped yet. Now it will.

I've been teaching for about 15 years in the Air Force and I really enjoy it. I've instructed in aircraft from primary (this is an airplane) training to U-2, T-38 and B-707 advanced training. I know how to teach. As a military pilot I am well versed in how to follow regulations so now I'll follow Part 61, great. It isn't going to be a big deal for me to learn 61 and the other regs that are required. I'm sure the written exams that I will be required to pass will ensure I have the requisite knowledge to dot the I's and cross the T's.

Like Huggy said, when I have a question about something, I'll ask my buds that are CFI's (or AOPA or NAFI or EAA) and get the answer. Just like I do today.

 

[nosehair]

I'm sure the written exams that I will be required to pass will ensure I have the requisite knowledge to dot the I's and cross the T's.

I'll follow up UndauntedFlyer's comments with some emphasis on this point.

You would think that the written tests would cover this more since a large percentage of instructor and student violations are on endorsements and insufficient knowledge of requisite paperwork regarding civilian pilot and maintenance records,...but, it ain't so. Unless they devise a special test exclusively focused on Part 61 certification knowledge.

The average civilian trained flight instructor is sadly uninformed as to the depth of knowledge required to properly navigate the cesspool of certification regulations. Unfortunately, a lot of civilian trained pilots think that passing the written tests demonstrates sufficient knowledge. It is not. It is only a small "snapshot" of the required depth of knowledge in each area. The oral portion of the flight test actually is supposed to determine the proficiency of the knowledge.

And methinks the military IP will not be required to "demonstrate" practical knowledge of Part 61 and 91. He/She will probably only do a written test.
So we are only concerned that you guys not get caught with your pants down when first dealing with "the FAA".