AAI Proposed Scope

[CitationLover]

When the actual language is out can someone post it on here?

If the merger with MEH goes through and JL hasn't lied and kept everything the same in MEH he will inherit 380million ASM's (2% of AAI's ASM's) flown by Skyway. Will these be counted against the X% scope limit if Midwest is kept separate (ie whipsawee)?

 

[Wesb737fo]

When the actual language is out can someone post it on here?

If the merger with MEH goes through and JL hasn't lied and kept everything the same in MEH he will inherit 380million ASM's (2% of AAI's ASM's) flown by Skyway. Will these be counted against the X% scope limit if Midwest is kept separate (ie whipsawee)?

Good question,

IS scope tied to the Holding company? If not, and the companies are operated seperately, one would think that the 2% would count against the allowable % of ASM's ( 15% to 20% depending on the size of the company). This is essentially the same from old contract to new, but the old contract limited the size of sub-contract jets to 70 seats. The new TA would allow 86 seaters for 1/2 of the allowed ASM.s.

Provided the deal happens, you wouldn't think it would be in AAI's interest to operate the companies seperately since it's the " synergy" between the two companies that will generate the extra revenue and make the stockholders happy.

To attempt a whipsaw would be very ugly, I don't think they want that (I suppose I could be wrong, but as I stated before the fear of such actions will not convince me to vote for this thing)

I haven't read the entire contract, only the summary published on the NPA website. If somebody has the scope language from the actual contract maybe they could post it.


UPDATE: Just read that there will be a letter binding scope to the holding company. So ....there you go.

 

[CitationLover]

UPDATE: Just read that there will be a letter binding scope to the holding company. So ....there you go.

that's the first piece of good news i've heard regarding this TA.

please note the 2% figure above does not include Midwest ASM's.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The Camel is sniffing at the door to the tent.

Why can't AirTran pilots fly these airplanes?

There is no reason why AirTran can't crew these jets - even if they are operated under a separate certificate. One Seniority list is crucial. Negotiate something and put your new hires & junior Captain upgrades on it.

The only reason why management wants other pilots doing this flying is so they can whipsaw you later. Don't do it.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Just talk to a P2P and he said they can fly up to 40 EMB190 or CRJ900, and this suppose to be great deal for us. I dont care how many there are, even if was two we fly them!

 

[CitationLover]

Just talk to a P2P and he said they can fly up to 40 EMB190 or CRJ900, and this suppose to be great deal for us. I dont care how many there are, even if was two we fly them!

1 FA scope limit or 50 seats max please.

 

[Murphy]

40????? What were those guys smoking on the negotiating committee? 1 is too many.

 

[newnan]

Just talk to a P2P and he said they can fly up to 40 EMB190 or CRJ900, and this suppose to be great deal for us. I dont care how many there are, even if was two we fly them!

Approximately 40 total regional jets based on the merger going through. Only 20 of those could have more than 70 seats. It's based on ASM's and my math is not that good, that's why I said approximately. There will be more info concerning this specific topic in the near future. I'm looking forward to seeing it as I'd like all this flying done by our guys (and gals) also.

 

[DougCorp-9]

We need to focus on the payscale that was negotiated for these 100 seat aircraft. what would stop the company from replacing all te 717 with these slightly smaller aircraft. Scary chit man!!!

 

[CitationLover]

We need to focus on the payscale that was negotiated for these 100 seat aircraft. what would stop the company from replacing all te 717 with these slightly smaller aircraft. Scary chit man!!!

as a minimum the jetblue blended 190 rates, the usairways ones are downright embarrassing.

 

[jonjuan]

"Trust me, I promise not to stick it in the whole way." Just don't see this coming to a happy ending.

 

[Ty Webb]

It's not going to pass . . . . . Odds in Vegas right now are 95-5 for it tanking.

As for the NC, welcome back to the line . . . . Skipper especially. . . Things have changed quite a bit in the last few years . . . . enjoy those hotel changes, re-assignments, and SAP 2 process, Chief!

.

.

 

[Lear70]

As I posted earlier, the proposed SJ pay rates are insulting, and are barely more than I was making as a regional pilot flying a 50-seater for an aircraft that's twice the size.

No, thanks.

And, in talking one-on-one with the NPA reps in ops yesterday, that number is closer to 30 of each, not 20, once the merger is complete and we finish delivery of our scheduled 737's in a few years (before the contract amendable date).

Their response: "the new pay rates and Scope aren't even an issue, because the company won't be getting any of those jets for the duration of this contract, all the growth is scheduled for the 737".

Yeah, right. Are you clairvoyant? No? Hmmm... Is that in writing? No? Then, respectfully, you're an idiot. The NPA can't possibly act as if they know what the company will do when given this turd to play with, and their past actions show they will go where they believe the money is. Period. If the company pushed so hard for that scope and pay rates, then they did so for a reason... To ignore that is downright lunacy (and pretty scary crap coming from your union).

They had a lot of scare tactics that I presented facts against and they couldn't answer. MS seems to be a nice guy that has been sold a bill of goods that he may or may not have believed in and doesn't really have the knowledge to debate past what he's been told by the NC.

Likewise, when I asked the "resident scheduling expert" there about restrictions on building pairings to meet the same constraints they used in their analysis and if the contract had some type of line veto authority for us, they said no (of course).

Which means they could totally screw us based on the new limitations and we have no recourse.

Sorry, I just don't trust a company like this to do "what's right" for the pilot group at the cost (even slight) of their profit margin.

 

[Thunderchief]

The scope is tied to ASM?

Isn't the scope tied to ASM's? If so the 'number' of Airplanes doing the 'subservice' isn't a hard number. Right?
If management wants more regional aircraft they get a smaller aircraft (170) and fly it more.. OR get the 190 and configure it under the seat cap and fly it less or to shorter destinations.
I don't like the fact the scope is tied to ASM and not a percentage of AIRCRAFT....
Think about it this way:
If mainline flys 5 billion ASM's per year, then JL and gang have 1 billion ASM's they can use for regional flying. Half of that over the 70 seats. They could have Mesa (whoever) fly say 20 E190's and 30 E170's 12 hours a day to hit 1 billion ASM's a year. Or they could spread the flying more and have 100 E170's flying only 7 hours a day to stay under the ASM cap.....
Am I incorrect in my thinking?

-TC

 

[Dizel8]

Like someone else said, I think y'all should go for a scope that says, if it is an airtran flight then it should be flown by airtran pilots, add a caveat that says, that management may test out a market for six months with a partner, after which airtran pilots will be flying it.

Pilots a long tme ago should have said, that whether it is a Cessna 402 or a 747, it will be flown by pilots on that carriers seniority list.

 

[tubelcane]

Where's the full TA?

 

[Ace McCoy]

Wow

Their response: "the new pay rates and Scope aren't even an issue, because the company won't be getting any of those jets for the duration of this contract, all the growth is scheduled for the 737".

These guys really have no clue what they are doing. Even if all the growth was going to be in the 737 what about the next contract? Because once we give something up it is NEVER coming back.