Rumor Check - SkyWest service by Comair?

[WateryGrave]

Corporate scheme= Delta fuselage colors with Skywest swoosh on the tail. Anniversary planes, BR planes, etc.

Aren't you on the B scale with those other EMB guys? I didn't think they let you near the jets?

 

[fastback]

The question of whether SkyWest could fly "struck work" while Comair back filled for SkyWest is an interesting one.

There are 2 interesting questions here: 1. COULD Skywest fly struck Comair/ASA work? 2. WOULD we?

I think the answer is "No!" to both questions.

FIN: Except for your occasional conspiratorial notions, you seem to be a pretty level-headed guy. What would you say to ASA dumping ALPA, integrating the 2 pilot groups under our present "arrangement", and then creating an in-house union 4,000 strong? I am against ALPA on property here myself, but am on the fence about in-house representation. Just throwing it out there.

 

[Tarzan]

FIN: Except for your occasional conspiratorial notions, you seem to be a pretty level-headed guy. What would you say to ASA dumping ALPA, integrating the 2 pilot groups under our present "arrangement", and then creating an in-house union 4,000 strong? I am against ALPA on property here myself, but am on the fence about in-house representation. Just throwing it out there.

There has been talk of decertifing ALPA to get one list.

 

[Crash Pad]

HA HA Fins you said fly struck work. I think we all know that struck work is not an issue.

 

[~~~^~~~]

There are 2 interesting questions here: 1. COULD Skywest fly struck Comair/ASA work? 2. WOULD we?

I think the answer is "No!" to both questions.

FIN: Except for your occasional conspiratorial notions, you seem to be a pretty level-headed guy. What would you say to ASA dumping ALPA, integrating the 2 pilot groups under our present "arrangement", and then creating an in-house union 4,000 strong? I am against ALPA on property here myself, but am on the fence about in-house representation. Just throwing it out there.

A good idea in concept. The problem is that management apparently sees more value in whipsawing one pilot group against the other than working together to make our operation more efficient.

If SkyWest management had merged ASA and SkyWest and made the same pay offer to both sides ALPA likely would have lost the representational vote of the combined pilot group.

Instead SkyWest demanded concessions (while turning in record profits) and threatened the pilots with the loss of their flying (a threat that was kept).

Pilots are people who will invest in their future. If SkyWest offered opportunity, the ASA pilots would have eagerly accepted.

In contrast, if pilots are threatened, they will organize to defend themselves. SkyWest's actions to transfer aircraft was making the situation worse.

Under the current circumstance, ALPA is not going anywhere. The ASA pilots feel that they need the union because they feel threatened by SkyWest management. Further, many of us (me included) hope that eventually ALPA will facilitate a stabilizing merger since management has not merged the Companies.

 

[~~~^~~~]

HA HA Fins you said fly struck work. I think we all know that struck work is not an issue.

That is kinda dumb. No, that is really stupid. Where are you (and others) coming up with this "struck work" stuff?

Nobody flew any Comair "struck work." I've never even heard such an allegation until recently from SkyWest guys. Where is this coming from? Source?

 

[JoeMerchant]

That is kinda dumb. No, that is really stupid. Where are you (and others) coming up with this "struck work" stuff?

Nobody flew any Comair "struck work." I've never even heard such an allegation until recently from SkyWest guys. Where is this coming from? Source?

Fins,

I believe he is referring to the fact their won't be a strike because we aren't going to be released... thus no stuck work to cross..... I tend to agree with him...

With regards to the CMR strike, it is technically correct that nobody flew CMR struck work. HOWEVER their passengers were reaccomodated on DAL, ASA, Skywest, and ACA thru different hubs and some of their aircraft were transferred to ASA and Skywest. I have no doubt we flew CMR passengers in CMR aircraft during the strike..... That was the beginning of the end of the battle......

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins,

I have no doubt we flew CMR passengers in CMR aircraft during the strike.....

Joe, that is not an accurate characterization. This is how lies like the "ASA pilots demanded DOH" get started. Please refrain.

We agree on the release. Management will move just enough to indicate that the parties are not deadlocked. 1% in six months is less than inflation, Very safe move and it effectively keeps us parked.

 

[Peter Sashell]

I think Skywest is taking a few Comair 50's and putting them in the Midwest system. This was reported by the head of Maint.

 

[~~~^~~~]

In other news, allegedly AirTran's new scope section allows 70 seat RJ's. If that is the case, it changes the dynamics of the MidWest deal.

 

[MELIT]

There are 2 interesting questions here: 1. COULD Skywest fly struck Comair/ASA work? 2. WOULD we?

I think the answer is "No!" to both questions.

FIN: Except for your occasional conspiratorial notions, you seem to be a pretty level-headed guy. What would you say to ASA dumping ALPA, integrating the 2 pilot groups under our present "arrangement", and then creating an in-house union 4,000 strong? I am against ALPA on property here myself, but am on the fence about in-house representation. Just throwing it out there.

ASA did it to Comair

 

[Nightrain_080]

There are a number of Old Comair 50 seaters in the desert. SkyWest has been pulling them out of the desert to replace the 50 seaters they transferrred in a hurry from the Delta side to the Midwest MKE operation.
Yes Skywest INc. is buying old shiVVy Rjs' from the desert and adding them back into Delta side service for now. I flew one from TUS to GTF on a time and a half junior man trip about 1 month ago. It was a dawg with no seats and green needles all the way. Poor records and it should have stayed in the desert with their old CA tailnumbers.

 

[mosyslack]

We didn't fly struck Comair work, and we wont fly struck ASA work.

How can SKW guys refuse to fly "struck work"? Most airlines have agreements with the associated unions that will not allow for those pilots to fly "struck work". SKW has no contract/no union representation, and as an employee you can more-or-less be fired just because (in theory), correct? I'm not saying this happens. If you refuse to fly "struck work", what kind of ground do you have to stand on?

 

[mosyslack]

What would you say to ASA dumping ALPA, integrating the 2 pilot groups under our present "arrangement", and then creating an in-house union 4,000 strong? I am against ALPA on property here myself, but am on the fence about in-house representation. Just throwing it out there.

It's my understanding (I'm not going to go read through the RLA), that once an air carrier is unionized and under contract, that carrier can never go non-union. This is part of the reason/explaination as to why our contracts are amendable and do not expire. The unionized groups can change representation, but will never be non-union.

 

[Morning Wood]

How can SKW guys refuse to fly "struck work"? Most airlines have agreements with the associated unions that will not allow for those pilots to fly "struck work". SKW has no contract/no union representation, and as an employee you can more-or-less be fired just because (in theory), correct? I'm not saying this happens. If you refuse to fly "struck work", what kind of ground do you have to stand on?

During Comair's strike, their MEC decided that any flying from SLC to DSM and the other cities was not struck work. Prior to that ruling, any pilots that did not want to fly to any of the Comair cities did not have to. It was really that simple. Some would lead you to believe otherwise.

 

[mosyslack]

No one has lead me to believe anything. From the outside looking in on a non-union carrier though, I was just curious as to if the company would honor any requests to not fly struck work. If the compony didn't back the pilot group and insisted that those routes be flown, then what? I did not know that there was an "internal agreement". If ASA should get to that point, would SKW mgmnt honor the struck work? For that matter, what would be struck work as the flying is handed down from big D and I'm sure there's some give and take on routes between ASA and SKW.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe, that is not an accurate characterization. This is how lies like the "ASA pilots demanded DOH" get started. Please refrain.

My good friend Fins, this is very much an accurate description of the events that transpired. ASA and Skywest did not fly official ALPA defined struck work, however we did fly CMR passengers in CMR aircraft. That was the last straw for me with ALPA.... that should have been struck work, and we shouldn't have done it! Why does it matter if you fly the CMR passengers thru another hub on their aircraft?

Fins, would that strike have lasted 89 days, with minimal contract improvements, if those passengers hadn't been reaccomodated?

Sorry, we agree on many things, but this was the beginning of the end for ALPA and collective bargaining within a brand.....

 

[Morning Wood]

No one has lead me to believe anything. From the outside looking in on a non-union carrier though, I was just curious as to if the company would honor any requests to not fly struck work. If the compony didn't back the pilot group and insisted that those routes be flown, then what? I did not know that there was an "internal agreement". If ASA should get to that point, would SKW mgmnt honor the struck work? For that matter, what would be struck work as the flying is handed down from big D and I'm sure there's some give and take on routes between ASA and SKW.

No what I meant was there are some that would lead you and everyone else to believe otherwise. Each union drive, an urban legend about people being fired for refusing to fly to any of the Comair cities resurfaces. This did not happen.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

My good friend Fins, this is very much an accurate description of the events that transpired. ASA and Skywest did not fly official ALPA defined struck work, however we did fly CMR passengers in CMR aircraft. That was the last straw for me with ALPA.... that should have been struck work, and we shouldn't have done it! Why does it matter if you fly the CMR passengers thru another hub on their aircraft?

Fins, would that strike have lasted 89 days, with minimal contract improvements, if those passengers hadn't been reaccomodated?

Sorry, we agree on many things, but this was the beginning of the end for ALPA and collective bargaining within a brand.....

We never flew those 3 aircraft through CVG. I've heard that said numerous times, and it is simply not true.

As I recall, those aircraft were undelivered at the time of the strike and were temporarily diverted to ATL. Also, as I recall, the CMR MEC was consulted by the ASA MEC as to their feelings about ASA operating those three aircraft, and the CMR MEC gave their ok. Hard for me to see how that qualifies as struck work.

 

[JoeMerchant]

We never flew those 3 aircraft through CVG. I've heard that said numerous times, and it is simply not true.

As I recall, those aircraft were undelivered at the time of the strike and were temporarily diverted to ATL. Also, as I recall, the CMR MEC was consulted by the ASA MEC as to their feelings about ASA operating those three aircraft, and the CMR MEC gave their ok. Hard for me to see how that qualifies as struck work.

Hard for you to see how that qualifies as struck work? YGTBSM!

Example:

John Q. Public buys a Delta ticket from CAK to LAX. Originally, it was supposed to be a CMR flight from CAK to CVG, then DAL from CVG to LAX. Strike comes, and Delta reroutes John Q. Public through ATL on ASA. The ASA plane that John Q. Public gets on in CAK is a former CMR bird. Still don't see it?