Instrument Currency

[pgcfii2002]

Regarding the 6 approaches preceding 6 months rule, can these be accomplished in a FTD?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yes, if the FTD is certified for approaches and you have a CFI there. Except for realizing that sims and FTDs need to be certified for certain flight maneuvers, it's pretty much covered in 61.57(c) (the currency requirements) and, as usual 61.51 (the logging rule)

 

[CJCCapt]

Regarding the 6 approaches preceding 6 months rule, can these be accomplished in a FTD?

Yes. 14 CFR Part 61.57(c)(1). However, don't confuse a FTD with a personal computer. A Flight Training Device is define in 61.1(b)(7) as "a device that—

(i) Is a full-size replica of the instruments, equipment, panels, and controls of an aircraft, or set of aircraft, in an open flight deck area or in an enclosed cockpit, including the hardware and software for the systems installed, that is necessary to simulate the aircraft in ground and flight operations;

(ii) Need not have a force (motion) cueing or visual system; and

(iii) Has been evaluated, qualified, and approved by the Administrator."

This is a Frasca 141 or similar type unit.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Does a CFII have to be present?

I'd like to log the FTD time, even if for practice.

 

[avbug]

As Midlifeflyer stated, a CFI must be present, and must endorse your logbook.

Why log it if it's not a currency or training issue pertaining to a certificate or rating...trying to build hours on a computer??

 

[AC560]

As Midlifeflyer stated, a CFI must be present, and must endorse your logbook.

I know Avbug knows this but just to add you can have a ground instructor sign you off for sim time as well, doesn't have to be a CFI.

 

[avbug]

Thanks for adding that. You're right. One need not be a flight instructor to supervise and endorse for FTD time or sim time. One need not be a CFII OR IGI, either.

 

[pilotpat]

pg....why on Earth would you wanna log Frasca time?? For what? Dual received? 'Cuz its not like you can throw it in the old Flight Time catagory. I think you're just messing with us.

 

[AC560]

pg....why on Earth would you wanna log Frasca time?? For what? Dual received? 'Cuz its not like you can throw it in the old Flight Time catagory. I think you're just messing with us.

You can substitute it for flight time for many certificates and ratings. So while it cannot be logged as flight time it is just as good as it (up to a point).

 

[pgcfii2002]

pg....why on Earth would you wanna log Frasca time?? For what? Dual received? 'Cuz its not like you can throw it in the old Flight Time catagory. I think you're just messing with us.

No, I just want to practice approaches on occasion and wanted to know how to log it.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Nevermind....a CFII does have to be present per 61.51.

 

[AC560]

Nevermind....a CFII does have to be present per 61.51.

An authorized instructor needs to be present. This would be AGI, IGI, CFI, CFII, etc. it does not have to be a CFII specifically.

(h) Logging training time. (1) A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.
(2) The training time must be logged in a logbook and must:
(i) Be endorsed in a legible manner by the authorized instructor; and
(ii) Include a description of the training given, the length of the training lesson, and the authorized instructor's signature, certificate number, and certificate expiration date.

 

[nosehair]

An authorized instructor needs to be present. This would be AGI, IGI, CFI, CFII, etc. it does not have to be a CFII specifically.

(h) Logging training time. (1) A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.
(2) The training time must be logged in a logbook and must:
(i) Be endorsed in a legible manner by the authorized instructor; and
(ii) Include a description of the training given, the length of the training lesson, and the authorized instructor's signature, certificate number, and certificate expiration date.

How do you figure that? The term authorized instructor, when used in all other forms, implies that the instructor posseses the "rating" that he/she is teaching. If the instrument approaches are for the purpose of maintaining instrument currency, it would seem to require an authorized instructor to hold an instrument rating on his/her instructor certificate. Ground or flight.

 

[DrewBlows]

How do you figure that? The term authorized instructor, when used in all other forms, implies that the instructor posseses the "rating" that he/she is teaching. If the instrument approaches are for the purpose of maintaining instrument currency, it would seem to require an authorized instructor to hold an instrument rating on his/her instructor certificate. Ground or flight.

Not true. See 61.195 below. An Instrument rating is only required to provide flight training for the purpose of acquiring an instrument or type rating not limited to VFR. An instructor without an instrument rating can and should teach instrument instruction. An example of a non-instrument rated instructor giving instrument instruction is the three hours of instrument time required for a Private Pilot Certificate or instrument training on a flight review.



§ 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.

A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:
(a) Hours of training. In any 24-consecutive-hour period, a flight instructor may not conduct more than 8 hours of flight training.
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and
(2) If appropriate, a type rating.
(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.

 

[nosehair]

An example of a non-instrument rated instructor giving instrument instruction is the three hours of instrument time required for a Private Pilot Certificate or instrument training on a flight review.

That's not "instrument training", that's "flight training on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments". Those are the carefully chosen words of the Private Pilot requirements in FAR 61.109(a)(3).
Which is why a CFI-A only can do those 3 hours.

By your method of reasoning, a CFI-A only could give an IPC. Do you think that? A CFII only - no CFI-A, can not give a Flight Review. This holds true throughout the industry. The term authorized instructor came into being for exactly this purpose. If you're doing Multi training, it needs to be with a MEI, etc.

I am not 100% certain about this CFI required to be present in a simulator, because some simulators can simulate visual conditions, but logic and common sense says that if the sim training is for instrument currency, a CFI-A only cannot document instrument currency.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'm pretty sure nosehair is correct. Beyond training for "instrument training" requirements for a certifciate or rating (not just "flight training on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments" - the difference between the two goes back to at least a 1979 FAA Legal opinion), it would be hard to point to a specific regulation.

But after looking at a whole bunch of rules and official opinions, I came up with this (maybe incorrect) paradigm of instrument training:

If an instructor =is not= required by an FAR that talks about instrument training, instrument instruction or instrument currency, any CFI can give the instruction.

If an instructor =is= required by an FAR that talks about instrument training or instrument instruction or instrument currency, a CFII is required.

 

[lawfly]

The flight schools I have interacted with in the past have interpreted the "authorized instructor" requirement to mean a CFII or, if an approved FTD/sim, an IGI (for IFR currency).
On a related note, 61.57(d), Instrument Proficiency Check, also requires "an authorized instructor". 61.57(d)(2)(iv). Advisory Circular 61-98A, dated 1991 but still active on the FAA website, elaborates :
If the IPC is given in a single-engine airplane, the instructor should be a CFII. If the IPC is given in a multi-engine airplane, the instructor should be a CFII who is also an MEI. AC61-98A, Chap. 3, Par. 7a (page 9).
Just quoting this particular AC.