After the "foreseeable future" at Colgan

[TNHillbilly]

I hate the interview thing....I already interviewed once and got the job. Thanks. Call my Captains, look at my crewtrac, ask the crew schedulers if I am mean to them. Quit wasting my d@$n time. you already waste enough of it waiting for plane swaps.

 

[dingo222]

This is the point of getting a union! so no games are played by management! Seniority is everything, You should upgrade when its your turn, not when someone up high decides he likes you and asks you to upgrade! Sign the cards!!!!!

Mgmt playing games??? Senority is not everything. Upgrade is not an entitlement, it's a privilege. If you are a sh*tbag, you did not earn your right. If you called in sick to go out and party and screwed someone else, you do not deserve to upgrade. If you don't want to upgrade, which has been the case, you wil not be forced to. Everybody gets the call when it's their turn. Mgmt doesn't leave out anyone for the sole purpose of screwing them. They look at those avail that meet the mins, talk to them, and post the list. Case in point. I'm 18 numbers behind and 22 hrs short of those called to interview in June. They didn't pass anyone up to come to me next. I didn't make the cut off just as if we were in a union. If some joker interviewing next month has a failed pc, some missed trips, and some other probs, should others have to wait? Hell no. He should be passed up as per company policy. He or she F-ed up and is not entitled to a damn thing. That person knew what was on the line months if not years ago, and chose to be a f*ckoff. Nobody has to be a kissass to upgrade at colgan. You just have to do your job like it was explained to you when you volunteered to work here. Period

 

[TNHillbilly]

ok who am I kidding..I am broke as Sh!&...please let me upgrade so i can pay my bills...I'll do anything!!!! I'll come to ten interviews...and i'll bring my logbook to every one of them!!! I will wait patiently for plane swaps without complaining!!! I will not use the high pressure bleed to cool on the ground when it is 19 degrees celsius!!! only when it is 20!!! I WILL wait until the amps are down below 200 to start number one!!!! I will set cruise power according to the charted torque every single day!!!

 

[BirdCatcher]

Mgmt playing games??? Senority is not everything. Upgrade is not an entitlement, it's a privilege. If you are a sh*tbag, you did not earn your right. If you called in sick to go out and party and screwed someone else, you do not deserve to upgrade. If you don't want to upgrade, which has been the case, you wil not be forced to. Everybody gets the call when it's their turn. Mgmt doesn't leave out anyone for the sole purpose of screwing them. They look at those avail that meet the mins, talk to them, and post the list. Case in point. I'm 18 numbers behind and 22 hrs short of those called to interview in June. They didn't pass anyone up to come to me next. I didn't make the cut off just as if we were in a union. If some joker interviewing next month has a failed pc, some missed trips, and some other probs, should others have to wait? Hell no. He should be passed up as per company policy. He or she F-ed up and is not entitled to a damn thing. That person knew what was on the line months if not years ago, and chose to be a f*ckoff. Nobody has to be a kissass to upgrade at colgan. You just have to do your job like it was explained to you when you volunteered to work here. Period

People have been called out of turn, what qualifies someone to be a sh$tbag? You are 22 hrs short, what are the minimums again? Oh wait, they change monthly, in fact they change depending on who you ask. When I upgraded, 3 people in the class had less hours then the requirement they stipulated at the "upgrade interview".

 

[dingo222]

ok who am I kidding..I am broke as Sh!&...please let me upgrade so i can pay my bills...I'll do anything!!!! I'll come to ten interviews...and i'll bring my logbook to every one of them!!! I will wait patiently for plane swaps without complaining!!! I will not use the high pressure bleed to cool on the ground when it is 19 degrees celsius!!! only when it is 20!!! I WILL wait until the amps are down below 200 to start number one!!!! I will set cruise power according to the charted torque every single day!!!

don't do that, it's makes you a lifer!

K, for what it's worth. I hate the damn interview process also. Hell, I've never even met TB or JEB or Mikey, and I'm in HEF at least once a week. It worked for this company because it was small enough to pick and choose. Now it's all grown and they don't know what to do. Hell, I had one of those days today. A 200 dollar cab ride to get to the plane, 2 empty repos to find some revenue pax, and a ton of confusion along the way. Some days feel like calling HEF and saying:
1) Bend over
2) Stick your head between your legs
3) Listen for the "POP" sound

congrats, that was you pulling you head out of your ass....

 

[340SAM]

Is it true that after 3 months Alpa cant get enough current Colgan pilots to send in cards so they are camping out at the newhire hotel in IAH. Trying to scare the new hires into signing up.

 

[BirdCatcher]

Is it true that after 3 months Alpa cant get enough current Colgan pilots to send in cards so they are camping out at the newhire hotel in IAH. Trying to scare the new hires into signing up.

No it's not

 

[340SAM]

how long does it usually take?

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

ok who am I kidding..I am broke as Sh!&...please let me upgrade so i can pay my bills...I'll do anything!!!! I'll come to ten interviews...and i'll bring my logbook to every one of them!!! I will wait patiently for plane swaps without complaining!!! I will not use the high pressure bleed to cool on the ground when it is 19 degrees celsius!!! only when it is 20!!! I WILL wait until the amps are down below 200 to start number one!!!! I will set cruise power according to the charted torque every single day!!!

Actually it is 3 percent of charted torque. That is why you are still an FO.

 

[TNHillbilly]

Actually it is 3 percent of charted torque. That is why you are still an FO.

So if the charted torque is 80 percent then I set the power levers to 2.4 percent? how do you go anywhere with that power setting?? No wonder i'm still an FO...this stuff is confusing...

don't you just subtract 3 of the charted torque from the charted torque?? yes thats what you do..

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

No you don't do that you take 3 percent of say 80 percent. 2.4 minus that from 80. So the torque you would set is 77.6%. If you just minus 3 like most people do( incorrect) you would arrive at 77 and that would be crazy. That .6% could mean the difference between being late and being ontime. All you have to do is read the book everything you ever wanted to know is in there.

 

[70-SS]

Is it true that after 3 months Alpa cant get enough current Colgan pilots to send in cards so they are camping out at the newhire hotel in IAH. Trying to scare the new hires into signing up.

It's been a month and a half. ALPA is really impressed with the progress. Usually takes alot longer

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

. We would not be able to negotiate anything with management and everything would now have to go through a union.

Who is WE?

Since when did any pilot at Colgan or any non union carrrier negotiate with the company? Does each pilot have their own pay scale, work rules, and 401K? Is his better than yours?


The only way to make the place better is collectively.

some of us like the fact that we have never sat reserve. have logged a huge amount of turbine 121 time. get home almost every night.

my goals are to get to a major. to do that i must have 121 time. i have been able to log a lot of it much faster than ALL of my friends that went to other carriers.

So you are using Colgan just as they are using you..... but yet you want to go to a major. Does that major have a union? Possibly not, but probably will... what then, when you make it to a major? All of a sudden you are a union man? Or at least cool with it...

What are you doing about making the profession better now? Or is being a user ok until you "get yours"?

The rest of us are doing something now... at a minimal we are paying dues... some of us are volunteering our free time...

 

[ifly34]

So you are using Colgan just as they are using you..... but yet you want to go to a major. Does that major have a union? Possibly not, but probably will... what then, when you make it to a major? All of a sudden you are a union man? Or at least cool with it...

Rez,
Doesn't that lame argument work both ways. Everyone at Colgan came to this company when it was non-union. If they want to be a union pilot shouldn't they apply to a union carrier?

 

[TNHillbilly]

No you don't do that you take 3 percent of say 80 percent. 2.4 minus that from 80. So the torque you would set is 77.6%. If you just minus 3 like most people do( incorrect) you would arrive at 77 and that would be crazy. That .6% could mean the difference between being late and being ontime. All you have to do is read the book everything you ever wanted to know is in there.

what book?

 

[Prop2Jet]

under block for the month = 850/250
over block for the month = charted torque minus what ever will get me there right on time. I just give myself a raise every day!

 

[TNHillbilly]

activate the tamdar!

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

All of our planes should be outfitted with TAMDAR.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Mgmt playing games??? Senority is not everything. Upgrade is not an entitlement, it's a privilege. Nobody has to be a kissass to upgrade at colgan. You just have to do your job like it was explained to you when you volunteered to work here. Period

If you look anything like your avatar, its no wonder you work there! is this Bubba? Again, this interview BS does'nt happen anywhere else!
You should just change your name to dingleberry222, you lifer!
<-----------Look at your boy on Mt. Scab more!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,
Doesn't that lame argument work both ways. Everyone at Colgan came to this company when it was non-union. If they want to be a union pilot shouldn't they apply to a union carrier?

No it doesn't work both ways.

You were born (I assume) a US Citizen. Do you just accept how life is in this country or do you work to effect positive change? Or do you renounce your citizenship and become stateless or join another state?

The fact is, as workers and pilots we have rights. But those rights will only be respected if you step up and recognize those rights and thru the legal process obilgate your employer to recognize those rights as well.

I always thought representation was an American characteristic. That we all have the right to have our rights represented.

 

[70-SS]

So if the charted torque is 80 percent then I set the power levers to 2.4 percent? how do you go anywhere with that power setting?? No wonder i'm still an FO...this stuff is confusing...

don't you just subtract 3 of the charted torque from the charted torque?? yes thats what you do..

Just remember PCP=55%-65%. That will be a question on your next checkride. Forget the charts. PCP Rules.

 

[ifly34]

Duplicate post. My apologies.

 

[ifly34]

No it doesn't work both ways.

You were born (I assume) a US Citizen. Do you just accept how life is in this country or do you work to effect positive change? Or do you renounce your citizenship and become stateless or join another state?

The fact is, as workers and pilots we have rights. But those rights will only be respected if you step up and recognize those rights and thru the legal process obilgate your employer to recognize those rights as well.

I always thought representation was an American characteristic. That we all have the right to have our rights represented.

Rez,
You are correct. I was born a US Citizen and I do want to make life in this country better. But, I don't feel I need to ask another country to come here and help represent me in my effort. And yes, if I thought it was that bad here and I couldn't find a way to effect positive change, I would consider leaving for somewhere else (just as the pilgrims did, isn't that what made this country).

Workers do have the right to be represented. They have the right to chose who represents them. They also have the right not to be represented. That is also guaranteed by the RLA. It is all part of the "American way".

There are many "American characteristics" and I'm sure you will agree that not all of them are good. We need to chose what will make us better and not what someone else tells us what they believe will make us better. We all have the right to be represented, but that will be OUR choice. That is one of the good characteristics.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You are correct. I was born a US Citizen and I do want to make life in this country better. But, I don't feel I need to ask another country to come here and help represent me in my effort. And yes, if I thought it was that bad here and I couldn't find a way to effect positive change, I would consider leaving for somewhere else (just as the pilgrims did, isn't that what made this country).

Another country? What are you talking about? Legal representation is not foreign. Joining ALPA is like getting a lawyer when you have to go to court. Like getting a doctor when you have surgery.

Workers do have the right to be represented. They have the right to chose who represents them. They also have the right not to be represented. That is also guaranteed by the RLA. It is all part of the "American way".

It is pretty obvious what happens to individuals when they try and represent themselves in a court of law. Also at a disiplinary hearing and at the pilot negotiating table.

There are many "American characteristics" and I'm sure you will agree that not all of them are good. We need to chose what will make us better and not what someone else tells us what they believe will make us better. We all have the right to be represented, but that will be OUR choice. That is one of the good characteristics.

I didn't realize that negating your rights was American..but this is a free country...



And with freedom comes repsonsiblity.... and in this case to be a part of a professional organization that we all benefit from.....

 

[ifly34]

Another country? What are you talking about? Legal representation is not foreign. Joining ALPA is like getting a lawyer when you have to go to court. Like getting a doctor when you have surgery.



It is pretty obvious what happens to individuals when they try and represent themselves in a court of law. Also at a disiplinary hearing and at the pilot negotiating table.



I didn't realize that negating your rights was American..but this is a free country...



And with freedom comes repsonsiblity.... and in this case to be a part of a professional organization that we all benefit from.....

Rez,
Overall that was a very disappointing rebuttal from you. I think you missed the point entirely or you are getting desperate to defend your position.

Since you obviously missed the analogy, what I'm talking about is having a third party (ALPA) that is unrelated to either group involved (Colgan pilots or Colgan Air) represent us. I don't feel they have our interest at heart. As far as legal representation, if you need to go to court, hire a lawyer. If you don't need to go to court, do you really need to hire a lawyer? If you don't need surgery, would you still hire a doctor?

If the Colgan pilot group decided to represent themselves do you really think they would do everything themselves? Don't you think they would hire an attorney or negotiator? Or has ALPA cornered the market on them?

And to chose not to be represented is not negating your rights. It is actually another right you have (please read the RLA again). It is part of our freedom to chose representation or not. Are you suggesting that we give up our right to not chose representation?

This last one is the best. Are you actually trying to tell me it is my responsibility to join ALPA? lol!!! What if I join AOPA instead? Would that cover my responsibility as a pilot? Do ALPA pilots benefit if we join Teamsters? What about pilots at American, Southwest and UPS? Are they being responsible? Wouldn't Colgan pilots be responsible if we started our own organization?

 

[BirdCatcher]

Rez,
Overall that was a very disappointing rebuttal from you. I think you missed the point entirely or you are getting desperate to defend your position.

Since you obviously missed the analogy, what I'm talking about is having a third party (ALPA) that is unrelated to either group involved (Colgan pilots or Colgan Air) represent us. I don't feel they have our interest at heart.

Ifly34,

We the Colgan pilots would be Colgan ALPA, how would that be a third party? We vote and make decisions for our pilot group. I had a discussion a few weeks ago with a Colgan and one thing that was said that really caught my attention was, "That's what Pinnacle approved." when speaking of the Q400 pay scale. The fact is the Colgan's aren't running the show, they are pretty much middle management now. There is now 3 groups, the Colgan pilots, Colgan Air, and Pinnacle Holdings.

 

[ifly34]

Ifly34,

We the Colgan pilots would be Colgan ALPA, how would that be a third party? We vote and make decisions for our pilot group. I had a discussion a few weeks ago with a Colgan and one thing that was said that really caught my attention was, "That's what Pinnacle approved." when speaking of the Q400 pay scale. The fact is the Colgan's aren't running the show, they are pretty much middle management now. There is now 3 groups, the Colgan pilots, Colgan Air, and Pinnacle Holdings.

Because everything that Colgan ALPA would do would have to be approved by ALPA National. How is being directed by a large organization that is not part of the pilot group or the company not a third party?

And by the way, I love this justification. ALPA tells you that it would be your pilot group. Your pilots would elect your committee members. Your pilot group negotiates what it wants. ALPA supplies all of the help you need (attorneys, negotiators, organizers, etc). What happens when your pilot group negotiates an agreement that the pilot group ratifies, the company agrees to, but it doesn't meet ALPA standards? It doesn't get signed, thats what. So basically you can negotiate what you want as long as it is what ALPA national wants. Also, who gets the blame when things don't go right? Not ALPA. Not the always the MEC. It is the usually the pilot group themselves. Everyone blames them for electing the wrong people to the MEC (what happened to that training and education ALPA gives you by the way? Aren't they supposed to help the pilot group do the right thing?).

Ok, if the Colgans aren't running the show then wouldn't it be two groups? Colgan pilots and Pinnacle Corp? The truth is, the Colgans do still run the show. But, they do have someone to answer to now. Is it that everyone is afraid of Pinnacle Corp.? Pinnacle Corp has done nothing except what they said they were going to do from the start. True, I don't know them very well, but I'm not going to believe a small but vocal group of complainers amongst the Pinnacle Inc. pilot group before I label them untrustworthy. I will cautiously give them a chance.

 

[BirdCatcher]

Because everything that Colgan ALPA would do would have to be approved by ALPA National. How is being directed by a large organization that is not part of the pilot group or the company not a third party?

And by the way, I love this justification. ALPA tells you that it would be your pilot group. Your pilots would elect your committee members. Your pilot group negotiates what it wants. ALPA supplies all of the help you need (attorneys, negotiators, organizers, etc). What happens when your pilot group negotiates an agreement that the pilot group ratifies, the company agrees to, but it doesn't meet ALPA standards? It doesn't get signed, thats what. So basically you can negotiate what you want as long as it is what ALPA national wants. Also, who gets the blame when things don't go right? Not ALPA. Not the always the MEC. It is the usually the pilot group themselves. Everyone blames them for electing the wrong people to the MEC (what happened to that training and education ALPA gives you by the way? Aren't they supposed to help the pilot group do the right thing?).

Ok, if the Colgans aren't running the show then wouldn't it be two groups? Colgan pilots and Pinnacle Corp? The truth is, the Colgans do still run the show. But, they do have someone to answer to now. Is it that everyone is afraid of Pinnacle Corp.? Pinnacle Corp has done nothing except what they said they were going to do from the start. True, I don't know them very well, but I'm not going to believe a small but vocal group of complainers amongst the Pinnacle Inc. pilot group before I label them untrustworthy. I will cautiously give them a chance.

So your willing to trust Pinnacle management before you would trust Pinnacle pilots? Are you satisfied with the Q400 payscale too?

 

[ifly34]

So your willing to trust Pinnacle management before you would trust Pinnacle pilots? Are you satisfied with the Q400 payscale too?

I'm not saying I would trust one over the other. I'm saying I am willing to wait and watch. That way I can make MY OWN decision. I think we could all benefit from making our own decisions.

As for the Q400 payscale, personally I would have like to seen it a couple of bucks higher but I am not disgusted by it. Also, I believe it will go up soon on its own, just to keep pilots here. With other airlines starting to pay sign on bonuses, all regional airline payscales will go up just so they can retain pilots at a level to support their operation (not to mention any growth). But I'm sure ALPA will take credit for it.

 

[BirdCatcher]

I'm not saying I would trust one over the other. I'm saying I am willing to wait and watch. That way I can make MY OWN decision. I think we could all benefit from making our own decisions.

As for the Q400 payscale, personally I would have like to seen it a couple of bucks higher but I am not disgusted by it. Also, I believe it will go up soon on its own, just to keep pilots here. With other airlines starting to pay sign on bonuses, all regional airline payscales will go up just so they can retain pilots at a level to support their operation (not to mention any growth). But I'm sure ALPA will take credit for it.

I agree with you we need to make our own decisions.