what to do?

[planejockey]

Ok here is the deal, I have about 1100 TT and 200 multi, I just quit my job at a regional. I am looking into the military more and more seriously, I have it narrowed down between the Army and the AF. If I choose the Army itas because I would know quickly if I am in or not, and the AF because they fly fixed wing. Here is my question if I go with the Army and in the chance I don't like the military is there a good job outlook for me? and how does it work with the airlines when it comes to helo time? and if you are a reservist or full time AF please let me know what you think.

 

[JungleJett]

Why did you leave the regionals? You must not have been there more than a month with only 200 multi. Curious.....

 

[planejockey]

I addressed a safety issue to a capt and was not taken seriously! plus there were alot of things that I didn't like

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Which regional and what was the safety issue?

 

[JungleJett]

I addressed a safety issue to a capt and was not taken seriously! plus there were alot of things that I didn't like

What will happen if you address a safety issue with the military or there are things you do not like about military life? (And there will be)

Will you just quit?

I am sorry to be a more than a little skeptical, but with your total time and low multi time, you could not have spent that much time working for anyone and make those judgements.

 

[N1VIBS]

I addressed a safety issue to a capt and was not taken seriously! plus there were alot of things that I didn't like

Obviously a SNAP.

 

[AdlerDriver]

Ok here is the deal, I have about 1100 TT and 200 multi, I just quit my job at a regional. I am looking into the military more and more seriously, I have it narrowed down between the Army and the AF. If I choose the Army itas because I would know quickly if I am in or not, and the AF because they fly fixed wing. Here is my question if I go with the Army and in the chance I don't like the military is there a good job outlook for me? and how does it work with the airlines when it comes to helo time? and if you are a reservist or full time AF please let me know what you think.

So, let me see if I have this right. You still want to be an airline pilot, just not at a regional, and you are looking at the Army or Air Force to build time and get your qualifications up to snuff so you can apply to the airline you DO want to fly for? Is that correct?

If so, I have several comments in no particular order:
- How old are you?
- The Navy also flies boocoo fixed wing aircraft (just a thought).
- The Army flies fixed wing also but in minimal numbers compared to the AF or Navy.
- Most airlines do not consider helo time when evaluating the quals of a potential new-hire.
- The Air Force requires a 10 year commitment after you get your wings (which takes about a year). I'm not sure what the Navy commitment is. Can I assume you already have a 4-year degree? If that's the case and all the planets aligned, you might be done with your Air Force commitment and be ready to apply to the airlines in 11-12 years (depending on how long it took you to get the pilot slot, get your commission at Officer Training School (OTS) and show up at pilot training).
- What does "if I don't like the military is there a good job outlook for me?" mean? - Do you mean if you quit during training or get your wings and do your time and then bail, or what? I'm just confused by the wording of your question.

If you want a shot at an airline job with military flight experience, I'd say go for the Navy or Air Force. No offense to the Army bros but if your goal is an airline career, I wouldn't waste your time with the Army.

All that said, you really need to look in the mirror and decide why you are considering the military. If you want to serve and pursue a 20 year career in the military, then go for it. After the military commitments jumped up to the 10 year range, I knew few if any pilots in the military that joined with the express goal of building airline quals and getting out. Also, consider combat, family separation, multiple moves, long cruises and deployments, possible non-flying assignments, not flying your "dream aircraft", etc. and you need to decide if you're willing to make those kind of sacrifices even if you NEVER get a shot at an airline job. (Who knows - you may not get hired or there might not be any jobs available if and when you do decide to get out).

If you're thinking military just to build time for the airlines, then you really made a big mistake in my opinion. You already had your foot in the door with the regional job. I don't know what the captain upgrade time was at your regional but I'm guessing it wasn't 11 years. You could have built a lot of time in the next 11 years, had the PIC mins and been applying to whatever airline you do want to work for WAYYYYY sooner than if you just start the ball rolling now with the military. Not that you could do much about it now but it’s just an observation.

Hope that helps some. Good Luck.

 

[planejockey]

just to clear matters, I was not supported by the company on the issue, they went along with the capt and his authority. That is why I quit and regardless I was going to leave if the AF called since I started the process with them. What I was referring to when I was talking about job outlook is what is it like out there for ex-helo pilots. What exactly do they do after they get out? I have no intention of going back to the airlines, not that I am a quitter and running away from a bad experience, the lifestyle just was not for me. I would like to make the military a career I was just curious what guys do after they serve in the army flying helos besides the regular police chopper work.

Thanks for the info

 

[planejockey]

BTW what the hell is a SNAP?

 

[AdlerDriver]

.......I would like to make the military a career I was just curious what guys do after they serve in the army flying helos besides the regular police chopper work.

Thanks for the info

Good luck in your career - I hope it works out. Which branch is kind of up to you and who needs pilots. Only you know where your real "nich" might be based on your skill set and desires.
I don't know much about follow on helo flying in the civilian world. My only guess would be the typical helo jobs: cops, traffic/news, medevac, corporate, fire-fighting and the list goes on.

BTW - SNAP: Sensitive New Age Pilot - a term that made its debut in the late 90s when the "Gen-X/Y" - whatever - crowd began to make their way into the military. Those that fell into this category seemed to have a hard time knowing when to just "shut up and color" and always seemed to have some kind of issue/complaint.
Just giving you the scoop - not necessarily thrown you into that category (not enough info on the issue at hand).

 

[planejockey]

the issue was that there was 2 fire detectors fail in flight..I was concerned to say the least. anyway thanks for the info sir!

 

[Pistlpetet]

Look at http://aptap.forumco.com/Default.asp. Army guys are Everywhere, and in all Services.

 

[whatitdoing?]

You quit for that? You'll run into situations like that all the time. But you don't quit. Sorry, I call BS on it. Something else happened......

 

[say again]

You quit for that? You'll run into situations like that all the time. But you don't quit. Sorry, I call BS on it. Something else happened......

Inexperience will do that! I dont see a company having a problem with someone bringing up a safety issue like that, something else must have happened.

 

[SIG600]

Sorry, but with 1100 TT and 200 multi I have to assume you'd been working at your regional for no more than about 3 months, which makes you the new guy that dosen't know ********************. If you had a problem being told to shut up and deal, the military is no place for you.

And the Navy will incure an 8 year commitment (fixed wing) from the day you get your wings, which can take up to 3 years.

 

[planejockey]

well if you guys don't believe me its cool but I was there and the way it was handled was not professional. I have no problem shutting up and learning but the way the capt conducted himself was unacceptable. He blew off on me when I questioned it "this is why I hate you new guys, I had over 3K hours of dual given yippidy yappp. We should all start out flying something our level like a Saab maybe" he seriously gave me a long talk about how ********************ty the new age pilots are and how we don't know our place. So the next day I called the CP to resign. It has nothing to do with anything else period. I just simply felt uncomfortable, and would not want my career to go in that direction. Yes it took 3 months for me to leave the regionals but I figured out that its not my type of work. I am too energetic and love what I do and I have no regrets about any of my decisions. BTW I think I owe it to the 50 ppl in the back to voice my concern! I would have been happy to learn why I was wrong but don't just tell me to shut up! I have just as much right to be there like the fellow in the left seat.

 

[planejockey]

ohh BTW 5 F/Os that I know quit this week! one was getting ready to upgrade.

 

[pkober]

It seems like you might have a problem dealing with BS. If that's the case, the military may not be for you. If you still want to push forward anyway, then stay away from the Army. I'm in the ANG and am currently activated in Afghanistan (I leave for home in the morning). I was here for 40 days, the Army guys are here for 12+ months. If you didn't like the airline life, than the military may even be worse. Long deployments to dangerous places dealing with a ton of BS.

If an inop fire detection system in flight causes you to throw the safety flag just imagine what an RPG fired at you will do?

Think long and hard about your next move Grasshopper.

Another good line I heard for the SNAP's is "Never pass up an opportunity to shut the F^&k up!".

 

[Birdstrike]

...what is it like out there for ex-helo pilots. What exactly do they do after they get out?...I was just curious what guys do after they serve in the army flying helos besides the regular police chopper work.

Many go the Gulf and fly offshore for PHI, Airlog, etc. Some go into EMS, some into corporate, some instruction, some charter. The outlook for opportunities is excellent once you have @1000 hrs of helo time. Check out justhelicopters.com forums for more information.

http://www.justhelicopters.com/topics/cat.asp?iCat=1017&iChannel=16&nChannel=Topics

 

[Birdstrike]

I have just as much right to be there like the fellow in the left seat.

You really don't. If you don't understand why, perhaps this career field really isn't for you. Maybe you should consider just buying your own plane and you can be master of your domain to your heart's content. You'll likely be happier in the long run.

 

[planejockey]

You really don't. If you don't understand why, perhaps this career field really isn't for you. Maybe you should consider just buying your own plane and you can be master of your domain to your heart's content. You'll likely be happier in the long run.

thanks for the info birdstrike, I know the guy is more experienced than me but I still think I am a valuable crew member and my opinions no matter how wrong they could be should be addressed. If they are wrong please correct me and tell me why, don't just tell me to shut up. Accidents happen when one guy becomes the all knowing. I could list many accidents when F/O said something and was told to shut up. There is a reason why the airlines have CRM. Yes the capt is the decision maker but keep in mind he can be wrong at times. Again the issue with me is not the mx problem we had, but rather how the capt handled himself. And I got 0 backing from the company when they tell us everyday to speak out and when you do they are not there to back you, by either explaining why you were wrong and what to do next time it happens. I have no problem with ppl giving me BS or taking orders.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Get used to eating sh!t in life. Unless you're one of the "haves."

Personally, I think quiting was very knee-jerk, especially since you barely got your feet wet in the business. You will run into those types frequently and don't expect to much support from management towards a green guy. It's a dirty secret, but you should know that maintenace snafus are fairly common and get swept under the rug often enough in this business.

Never went military, but from what I gather it is much more regimented and requires more discipline than some low-level regional where they play musical chairs with the right seat. Expect the treatment to be a lot harsher. And the kicker is, if you don't like it, you CAN'T just quit. I knew one guy who signed up and went therough boot camp only to beg abd beg to get discharged. He faked a mental illness (he actually is a little off kilter though) to get a general discharge. Let me tell you, he was VERY unhappy on the base and a thin-skinned individual as well which probably factored into his inability to stick out his commitment.

 

[Huggyu2]

SNAP = Sensitive New Age Pilot. The "me" generation of pilots. The ones that always say "it wasnt' MY fault"... "you didn't tell me"...."I'm not responsible"... you get the idea.
I met an ultralight dealer at Oshkosh, and said where he flies, they call them SNAG's (Sensitive New Age Guys/Gals).

 

[Col Reb]

I have no intention of going back to the airlines, not that I am a quitter and running away from a bad experience, the lifestyle just was not for me.

I can't speak for the airline lifestyle, but I can speak for the Navy. Following flight school, you can expect 3 year sea/deploying orders in which you will be gone the majority of the time. Following that tour, you will go to a 3 year shore tour. During the shore tour, you will probably be selected for a 1 year tour to augment an Army unit in Iraq or Afghanistan (I got to go to Iraq). You can expect to wear an Army uniform and carry an M-16 (and not fly). Following this, you can expect to get another set of deploying orders. Don't expect to get much quality time with your family. Most people are in the military for reasons other than the lifestyle.

 

[planejockey]

well I appreciate the help guys, I might have prematurely because of lack of experience but I felt like I did the right thing at the time. I have no problem serving my country and I was planning on doing it anyway, I just did the airline thing till I got the call. The lifestyle I was talking about has nothing to do with time away from home.

 

[Say Again Over]

Sorry things didn't work out for you, not going to nit pick you about the fire detector thing-but as a low time FO you should have asked some questions and followed SOP, having a blow out in flight with a crew member is not in anyones best interest. With an attitude that you know better than the PIC, you will not get anywhere in aviation whether it's military, corporate or anything else, good luck.

 

[AvroGuy]

Sorry, but with 1100 TT and 200 multi I have to assume you'd been working at your regional for no more than about 3 months, which makes you the new guy that dosen't know ********************.

Safety is safety. Fails in flight no big deal, but once on the ground if the capt was unwilling to write it up for mx that is another thing. It is all about CYA.

At my airline, I have come across a couple of capt that don't like to write things up because it will cause a delay and that is BS. If it is broke, get it fixed. Most of the time the capt can defer it as long as we are at an outstation.

Military flying is a whole different ball game. Training missions, take delays. War time mission, get the job done if you can get off the ground and still operate with effectiveness.

 

[CrewDawg]

well if you guys don't believe me its cool but I was there and the way it was handled was not professional. I have no problem shutting up and learning but the way the capt conducted himself was unacceptable. He blew off on me when I questioned it "this is why I hate you new guys, I had over 3K hours of dual given yippidy yappp. We should all start out flying something our level like a Saab maybe" he seriously gave me a long talk about how ********************ty the new age pilots are and how we don't know our place. So the next day I called the CP to resign. It has nothing to do with anything else period. I just simply felt uncomfortable, and would not want my career to go in that direction. Yes it took 3 months for me to leave the regionals but I figured out that its not my type of work. I am too energetic and love what I do and I have no regrets about any of my decisions. BTW I think I owe it to the 50 ppl in the back to voice my concern! I would have been happy to learn why I was wrong but don't just tell me to shut up! I have just as much right to be there like the fellow in the left seat.

Dude, from someone who is currently in A.F. pilot training, if that got your panties in a bunch then you don't want to come to UPT!

 

[JungleJett]

Did your airline NOT have pro standards?

 

[mudkow60]

SIG... where you at now

Lots of helo jobs out there... and you might decide to stay in.