Mesa Upgrade Time

[Heybill]

I understand that upgrade time is a fluid thing, depending on the needs of the company and the current state of the industry. I'm wondering if the average upgrade time will be reducing soon. Is this a safe bet?

 

[gmbpilot757]

As of right now you can expect 2-2.5 yrs in the CRJ. ERJ is around 1.5-2.5, 1900 around 6 months and the D8 anywhere from street captains to 6 months depending on the certificate you're under and the domicile you're going for. This is with the current growth. As far as a projection, well I can't give you one. Who knows what is in the works...

 

[Soverytired]

I understand that upgrade time is a fluid thing, depending on the needs of the company and the current state of the industry. I'm wondering if the average upgrade time will be reducing soon. Is this a safe bet?

For gods sake, do some "search" on Mesa here and stop thinking about the quickie upgrade!

I know 3 year first officers who are 6 months - 1 year from upgrade who are leaving for other regionals because they are sick to death of toughing it out and not having any QOL just to get the increasingly phantom "quick upgrade".

They have no desire to get b-slapped for another couple of years as captains just on the off chance that they MIGHT someday get hired at a better company . . . . they finally figured out that if that DOSEN"T work, they'll be stuck here .

 

[tyler24]

true that! i worked there for almost two years and was very close to upgrade but there is no way in hell i would have wanted even a single second of PIC time from mesa.. Everything is changing one day you will have your pic of major airlines to work for so for now go somewhere worth working at.

 

[Spinplate]

I have to agree with both! Even on www.airlinepilotcentral.com it says that the most junior captains in all of the domiciles are anywhere from 3 to 7 years depending upon what domicile you want as captain. Look at the others and you will see different. MEsa is no longer the regional with fast upgrades.... total BS. I left after 8 months because my Gma was dying..... they tried once to come after me for my contract and that was it. They are tools and its a clusterf**k every day there. DO NOT work there when you have so many other opportunities these days. I was stupid, didnt listen to anyone on here, but I live in PHX and wanted to be based here..... very senior base. I got IAD and BNA .....$hitty commutes man! TRY and go somewhere with a better QOL and employee respect. The biatch crew tracker called me at 2am on my day off to let me know about a trip that was added on to my line for 2 frickin days later!! They dont care about you! JO is a JackOff He sleeps in a bed of money and wipes his @ss with it too, but you will be screwed out of every paycheck somehow. If you are delayed or have to hold for 30 minutes or wait on the tarmac, you are not getting paid for it. Its a joke. And the per diem is only good if you live in Mexico in a shack! Ok, Ive vented! Peace

 

[CFIse]

I understand that upgrade time is a fluid thing, depending on the needs of the company and the current state of the industry. I'm wondering if the average upgrade time will be reducing soon. Is this a safe bet?

There is no safe bet, especially on upgrade times. All things being equal the upgrade time at Mesa will reduce dramatically very shortly - because there was a hiring gap at about the 2.5 year mark - but that doesn't make any difference to you, because after we get past that gap upgrades will go back to their usual schedule and lengthen again.

Mesa is adding a few aircraft, so presumably that will move upgrades along, and captains are leaving, like everywhere, but whether they are leaving quickly enough, and whether they will stay leaving long enough to have any effect on your upgrade if you go there who can predict. Plus it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Mesa takes a crash dive due to it's performance with one of it's customers - and then you might be measuring your upgrade in decades not years.

Who knows? Don't take a job because of the quick upgrade - unless it's really quick - because the chances are it will change before it makes a difference to you.

Get educated, make a decision, don't be like the dumbo who posted above who went to Mesa because he wanted to live in PHX - anybody with half a working brain cell could have figured out PHX is the senior base at Mesa before they went to the interview, let alone got hired.

 

[Spinplate]

[
Get educated, make a decision, don't be like the dumbo who posted above who went to Mesa because he wanted to live in PHX - anybody with half a working brain cell could have figured out PHX is the senior base at Mesa before they went to the interview, let alone got hired.[/quote]

Ok, before you open your cocky pilot mouth and let JO stick it in there, I went to Mesa because I was told that they needed Dash pilots (PHX isnt senior for Dash8). They sent all of my class to the CRJ because of the increase in UAL Express. Remember, this is a small community so please do not talk $hit unless you know me personally. I would be happy to discuss your perfect decisions you have made throughout your pilot career so far....ok? If your ever in PHX, let me know..... we'll grab a beer, I want to make JO jealous

 

[RP170]

Here is a quote from Spinplate back when he was trying to decide where to go for his first regional job and I had offered him advice:


"Well... they must still be in business for a reason! And thats all it is..... ITS A BUSINESS!! They make money! Well they try anyway. I know I wont be at a regional forever so if I can get PHX as my base and not commute that would be great! If I could make all the regional carriers call me for an interview and an offer I probably wouldnt pick Mesa or Pinnacle, but thats what I have right now and Im not waiting around for the hiring to stop. Being patient!!?? You think about that when your sitting in the right seat of that 170 after 5 years."

Here's more:

"Well.... lets see... flight instruction pays so well these days. Please! Anything is better than doing that and I have survived on that pay before. I know what the regionals mean to me, its just another stepping stone. Most of you, not all, complain and bitch all the time about how bad you have it. Most of you are flying a jet and some are even Captains!! Sure beats that old 172 that you were dying to get out of years ago. Go sit at desk and make more $$ if thats what you want. Every regional out there has their ups and downs and if Mesa has a few more downs, oh well, I ll deal with it. I know deveral guys who fly for them now and its not as bad as some of you say it is. (most of you that say it sucks have never even worked there) My point is, STOP BEING SO F**KING NEGATIVE YOU LITTLE SPOON FED BITCHES!!" <-----my negative comment

My advice to Spin:

"If you are looking for good QOL I wouldn't recommend Mesa or Pinnacle. You could commute for regionals that have better work rules and still be home more often than you will be with Mesa even though you may live in base. Are you familiar with their work rules and contract? If you are as "responsible" as you say you are, I don't think you'd choose Mesa. But to each their own. Good luck and enjoy working for JO."




Spin continued to fight tooth and nail that Mesa was the place to be. What do you have to say now spin? I hate to say I told you so but, "I told you so."

Oh and P.S. : I'm less than 100 #'s away from upgrade here at RAH and haven't even been here 2 years yet.

 

[T-prop]

Here is a quote from Spinplate back when he was trying to decide where to go for his first regional job and I had offered him advice:


"Well... they must still be in business for a reason! And thats all it is..... ITS A BUSINESS!! They make money! Well they try anyway. I know I wont be at a regional forever so if I can get PHX as my base and not commute that would be great! If I could make all the regional carriers call me for an interview and an offer I probably wouldnt pick Mesa or Pinnacle, but thats what I have right now and Im not waiting around for the hiring to stop. Being patient!!?? You think about that when your sitting in the right seat of that 170 after 5 years."

Here's more:

"Well.... lets see... flight instruction pays so well these days. Please! Anything is better than doing that and I have survived on that pay before. I know what the regionals mean to me, its just another stepping stone. Most of you, not all, complain and bitch all the time about how bad you have it. Most of you are flying a jet and some are even Captains!! Sure beats that old 172 that you were dying to get out of years ago. Go sit at desk and make more $$ if thats what you want. Every regional out there has their ups and downs and if Mesa has a few more downs, oh well, I ll deal with it. I know deveral guys who fly for them now and its not as bad as some of you say it is. (most of you that say it sucks have never even worked there) My point is, STOP BEING SO F**KING NEGATIVE YOU LITTLE SPOON FED BITCHES!!" <-----my negative comment

My advice to Spin:

"If you are looking for good QOL I wouldn't recommend Mesa or Pinnacle. You could commute for regionals that have better work rules and still be home more often than you will be with Mesa even though you may live in base. Are you familiar with their work rules and contract? If you are as "responsible" as you say you are, I don't think you'd choose Mesa. But to each their own. Good luck and enjoy working for JO."




Spin continued to fight tooth and nail that Mesa was the place to be. What do you have to say now spin? I hate to say I told you so but, "I told you so."

Ouch!!

 

[labbats]

Small community indeed.

 

[Spinplate]

That was me before Mesa, not going to lie at all. Which is why I said that I was stupid for not listening to anyone on here before on my previous post. What more do you want, what are you trying to prove? I can admit when I am wrong. It sucked the life out me and I want other potential Mesa people to know it. Some people actually are happy there, but they are crazy!

 

[Soverytired]

That was me before Mesa, not going to lie at all. Which is why I said that I was stupid for not listening to anyone on here before on my previous post. What more do you want, what are you trying to prove? I can admit when I am wrong. It sucked the life out me and I want other potential Mesa people to know it. Some people actually are happy there, but they are crazy!

Heck, I was happy at Mesa, until about 2 years ago. This place has really gone downhill, and it was never really that great to begin with! Every month I think it can't possibly get worse . . then it gets worse!

253 pilots have left Mesa since Jan 1, 2007. These are first officers saying "I can't take this anymore", and they've only been here a couple of years.

You might think you can handle 5 (or 6, or 8, or 10) years of abuse for the off chance of getting hired by a major. . . but trust me, you have no freaking idea what this company is capable of.

 

[Spinplate]

RP, all you have ever done yourself is start $hit for no reason on this community. I respect what you have been through with all the changing of jobs and all, but I think about 99% of all CFI's have the same attitude that I did when you creep that 1000-1500TT mark. You have worked your a$$ off to get just THAT time and Im sorry, you kind of have a feeling desperation, but it doesnt bite you in the $ss until its too late and your sitting ready reserve 6 days a week for JO in a crappy little room at BNA for 10 hours a day. We do learn from our mistakes and which is why some of us have to jump ship or take care of family members that are dying. I now understand where you were coming from when you spoke about Mesa, even though you never worked for them. I did think I knew what i was getting into back then, but it was definitely a slap in the face by reality. Late! -Spin

 

[BOHICAgain]

mesa guys is it true air midwest side has been sold??

 

[spitfire1500]

[
Get educated, make a decision, don't be like the dumbo who posted above who went to Mesa because he wanted to live in PHX - anybody with half a working brain cell could have figured out PHX is the senior base at Mesa before they went to the interview, let alone got hired.

Ok, before you open your cocky pilot mouth and let JO stick it in there, I went to Mesa because I was told that they needed Dash pilots (PHX isnt senior for Dash8). They sent all of my class to the CRJ because of the increase in UAL Express. Remember, this is a small community so please do not talk $hit unless you know me personally. I would be happy to discuss your perfect decisions you have made throughout your pilot career so far....ok? If your ever in PHX, let me know..... we'll grab a beer, I want to make JO jealous[/quote]

I wouldn't be worried about CFIse making perfect decisions he's an FO on the CRJ at Mesa!

 

[RP170]

RP, all you have ever done yourself is start $hit for no reason on this community.

I was never trying to start $hit with you. Was just trying to help out and give advice since I had been in the industry for a few years already but you blew it off.

 

[pgcfii2002]

I am sure there are plenty of 1000 hour CFI's who are more than willing to spend a year at Mesa for the 121 time.

 

[Brazilgun]

I am sure there are plenty of 1000 hour CFI's who are more than willing to spend a year at Mesa for the 121 time.

You mean 500 TT, right? :beer:

 

[Spinplate]

I was never trying to start $hit with you. Was just trying to help out and give advice since I had been in the industry for a few years already but you blew it off.

Ok, done. How is it where you are? hiring?

 

[pgcfii2002]

You mean 500 TT, right? :beer:

Yes......I'm probably one of them. But then again, I'd like to CFI it until 1000 and not chase the shiney jet.

 

[CFIse]

Ok, before you open your cocky pilot mouth and let JO stick it in there, I went to Mesa because I was told that they needed Dash pilots (PHX isnt senior for Dash8). They sent all of my class to the CRJ because of the increase in UAL Express. Remember, this is a small community so please do not talk $hit unless you know me personally. I would be happy to discuss your perfect decisions you have made throughout your pilot career so far....ok? If your ever in PHX, let me know..... we'll grab a beer, I want to make JO jealous

You bet on a long shot and lost - again, if you'd done any research you'd have known how Mesa assigns planes and known what your odds of getting the Dash were. It's no good being all bitter because you didn't get the equipment and domicile you wanted.

You made a an arguably poor decision to come to Mesa, and once you knew your equipment you made a poor decision to stay - but that's hardly Mesa's fault. If you didn't know what Mesa was like before you went there, you shouldn't have been surprised to find out what it was like when you got there.

 

[CFIse]

I wouldn't be worried about CFIse making perfect decisions he's an FO on the CRJ at Mesa!

I'm senior in domicile and seat. I don't commute. I understand the contract and the pilot groups relationship with the company so I don't do anything for the company and I can pretty much avoid the company doing anything to me.

I've got a better QOL than most regional pilots anywhere else - because most pilots commute.

Now - if I commuted, if I wanted a more senior base and was still on reserve or bottom of the seniority list, if I didn't take the time to understand the contract and understand what I have to do, and more specifically what I don't have to do under it, well I'd be just as unhappy as all the other Mesa whiners you hear.

People make poor career decisions - blaming Mesa for their poor decisions seems somewhat childish to me.

That's why I say get educated, make the right decision for you, but don't believe everything you hear the Mesa whiners and detractors post on these boards - if you want a mother Mesa ain't it, if you're mature enought to work in an adversarial environment, and even get a perverse pleasure from it, come on down, you'll love it.

 

[labbats]

I've got a better QOL than most regional pilots anywhere else - because most pilots commute.

That's why I say get educated, make the right decision for you, but don't believe everything you hear the Mesa whiners and detractors post on these boards - if you want a mother Mesa ain't it, if you're mature enought to work in an adversarial environment, and even get a perverse pleasure from it, come on down, you'll love it.

How can you say that with any honesty whatsoever?

Someone hired now at Skywest/Republic/Eagle/Xjet/etc holds a line with 15 days off after a couple months and a Mesa guy who doesn't commute is sitting with 8 days off and another 6-10 months of the same on CRJ reserve? I won't even get into work rules and pay.

 

[Spinplate]

You bet on a long shot and lost - again, if you'd done any research you'd have known how Mesa assigns planes and known what your odds of getting the Dash were. It's no good being all bitter because you didn't get the equipment and domicile you wanted.

You made a an arguably poor decision to come to Mesa, and once you knew your equipment you made a poor decision to stay - but that's hardly Mesa's fault. If you didn't know what Mesa was like before you went there, you shouldn't have been surprised to find out what it was like when you got there.

Ok, I passed my sim ride in November 05 and left in April 06..... I stayed long enough to see what kind of circus it is. 5 months is way too long to sit ready reserve and have only 8 days off in a month. Even holding a line in IAH it was only 10 days off minimum. 75% of IAH lines were only 10-11 days off per month. I dont know where you are based, but I would much rather commute to work as long as I am working for a respectable company such as ExpressJet or Skywest..... plus I would probably still have more time off than if I were at Mesa. There will always be a pilot willing to take the crappiest jobs out there and they may be happy with it........not me. I did make a mistake going to Mesa, but wow did it sure open my eyes fast. If you are happy there, than stay. Mesa stock is the only stable thing!

 

[CFIse]

How can you say that with any honesty whatsoever?

Someone hired now at Skywest/Republic/Eagle/Xjet/etc holds a line with 15 days off after a couple months and a Mesa guy who doesn't commute is sitting with 8 days off and another 6-10 months of the same on CRJ reserve? I won't even get into work rules and pay.

How can you post such a complete pack of lies? This is an example of the kind of garbage that gets posted abot Mesa that just isn't true. It's by no means the greatest place to work, but it's nowhere near as bad as people like you, who have no idea, like to think.

 

[labbats]

How can you post such a complete pack of lies? This is an example of the kind of garbage that gets posted abot Mesa that just isn't true. It's by no means the greatest place to work, but it's nowhere near as bad as people like you, who have no idea, like to think.

A good friend of mine sits reserve at Mesa. He's on the CRJ, was hired last fall, and will still be on reserve in May. 8 days off and I hear all the details of everything in between on a regular basis.

Next question.

 

[A-V-8]

Facts

Deleted

 

[A-V-8]

Facts

You want the scoop?

This was posted here by me on 3/22/07

The first post that I ever made on a board like this was in here in regards to the Mesa Airlines Pilot Development program. There are a lot of Mesa haters in here and you are likely to need to take what is in here with a grain of salt. I will say that I am approaching the 3 year mark myself. Head for www.mesahub.com for more specific information.
As of today the most junior F.O. in PHX was hired in June of 06. Some times the wait for a domicile is long and sometimes it short. A friend of mine who lives in PHX had to wait for over a year. The most junior captain in PHX was hired in Oct of 2002.

The upgrade is fast on the props. Like almost right now. Here is the problem. If you are on a jet the prop is never an option for you. Your equipment lock is permanent on the jet as an FO. As a CRJ or ERJ FO you can only bid CRJ/ERJ captain. Meanwhile guys who were hired before you who are on the props will be upgrading and you will just be stagnant. It appalls me when guys at Mesa refute me on this one but they are idiots for arguing because this is not my opinion it is a fact that is in black and white that any Mesa pilot can access and see for themselves. I usually get puzzled looks for saying it and then they tell me that they don’t really believe it. Well here goes. In Nov. of 05 we had a displacement in PHL when we lost that flying to CHQ and Air Wis. We had some Jet for Jobs captains (Folks from U.S. Airways that we had to hire in order to get that flying) who had artificial captain slots. They were for the most part not senior enough to hold captain on that equipment but Mesa had to promote them out of seniority order because our contract to fly the CRJs for Airways dictated that we had to hire their furloughed guys and do that. When the flying went away so did their artificial captain seniority and their regressed to their original date of hire. Some of them were senior enough to hold captain and some went to F.O. Some of the ones that went to F.O. just resigned and some stayed on. Anyway a Jets for Jobs (J4J) captain who was just barely senior enough to hold captain became the most junior captain in the whole company after the displacement on the CRJ. She was on the bottom of the roster in IAD for a long time. Today it has been 19 months since the PHL displacement. Only 15 captains in IAD separate her name from the bottom of the page and that represents only 77 seniority numbers globally and she is still not senior enough to hold captain in any other domicile. Sure Mesa has upgraded more that 15 captains in the last 19 months but they were for the most part very senior. Not junior. At that rate CRJ captain will soon soar to 5+ years. No expansion and loosing planes complicated by the threat of our planes moving to China is a recipe for not applying. O yea they treat us like crap too. O yea do some research on what a trip rig and duty rig means. We have neither at Mesa. You will make about 40% more at CHQ or SkyWest for less work.
Well here is the real deal. If you are looking for a fast upgrade and you come to Mesa you will be delighted if you are one of the few that gets the props but if you get the Jet expect a long wait. We are loosing planes in PHX at 5 per year and that contract is up in 2013.
Like I said earlier almost 3 and no upgrade in sight. Meanwhile back at the training center folks more that 2 years to my junior are upgrading on equipment that I can’t bid cause of this f---ed up contract.
Just my 2 cents worth.

This was posted here by me in regards to a 2 year upgrade on the ERJ at Mesa 4/3/2007

Well just to let you know I am senior to that guy by over 9 months. It says Holdback by my name. All they have to do is start paying me 50 seat Captain pay on June 16th (despite the fact that I will be flying an 86 seater) which is 45 days after the first person junior to me starts class. They can hold me on the CRJ as an F.O. forever. One of our union reps was held for 18 months. If they start moving our jets to China I will miss out on a free ATP and PIC turbine again. Just to let you know folks with more than 3 years are being held back. That 5/25 new hire you speak of. He will be the bottom guy for a very long time because we are not getting anymore ERJs. Up grade at Mesa is still 3 years on the jets and if you are a Jet F.O. you still cant bid the props. Mesa once again ignored seniority and did what was cheapest for them. The 5/25/05 guy was awarded that out of seniority order. 2 year upgrade for about 5 or 6 not everyone.
So in conclusion I would like to say "Stay away from Mesa. We don not have fast upgrades. They treat us like crap and that is what they think we are”.
Thank you for your time.

So here we are at the same topic. Welcome Back! 4/25/07
That 2 year upgrade that is mentioned. Well that was done out of seniority order. As a result folks senior to him who had ATL ERJ CA on their bid have to be paid 50 seat CA pay for everything they do. Well if you are interested in 50 seat CA pay you are in luck but if you are interested in PIC turbine time you are SOL. 11/28/2000 is nearly six years ago. What does that have to do with anything? Well let me tell you; and again if anyone at Mesa refutes this they are idiots because I just opened the pilots lounge and looked it up in black and white. 11/28/2000 is the hire date of the most senior hold back on the ATL ERJ. So it is just as accurate to say that the upgrade is running nearly 7 years on the ERJ because that is the seniority level of the most senior person that Mesa wont send to class in seniority order.
I am one of the over 40 held back on that equipment. Don’t come here for a fast upgrade. I am at nearly 3 years and it is nowhere in sight for me.
O yea just an update on that J4J captain who was the most junior captain in the whole company in Nov of 05. Today she is 15 names from the bottom in IAD. Still not senior enough to hold Captain in any other domicile and 75 seniority #s separate her # from the # on the bottom of the page.
Need more proof?

 

[RP170]

How can you post such a complete pack of lies? This is an example of the kind of garbage that gets posted abot Mesa that just isn't true. It's by no means the greatest place to work, but it's nowhere near as bad as people like you, who have no idea, like to think.

What companies are worse than Mesa then?

 

[A-V-8]

How can you post such a complete pack of lies?

How can you be so blind as to think that this is a lie? One needs look no further than our current bid packets and awards. We have been stagnant for a long time. Then look at the same seniority at CHQ and SkyWest. Faster upgrade and more pay. Throw in better work rules and their companies make mesa look like prison. However you can't reason with an unreasonable person and you are an unreasonable person. So just ignore my post. It is for everyone else.

It's by no means the greatest place to work,

This shall officially be recorded as the under statement of the century.

but it's nowhere near as bad as people like you, who have no idea, like to think.

I work there. I do understand. It is you who needs a reality check. Of course if you like it so much then stay there. I am looking for my ticket out as we speak.