Neat analysis tool for prospective pilots

[John Pennekamp]

Yep - those standards guys are earning their money, as are the junior Captains. Rote memorization of procedures does not make a line pilot.

Tell me about it. I'm just glad I have a flight instructor certificate and know how to use it... and I'm a line pilot, not in the training department.

 

[huncowboy]

How is this depressing? Desperation on part of regional airlines could mean leverage for pilots.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

JP and Fins,

If you guys/gals are not IPs it is not your job to instruct. If the FOs are being released to the line and are not competent, for your own safety/certificate preservation you should have them removed at the next stop. Obviously this will be hard to pull the trigger on someone who seems like a good guy/gal but it has to be done. It is not a personal but professional issue and in the long run you will probably be helping this pilots longterm career. These airlines have to learn that you cannot continue to skimp on pay/work conditions and get qualified applicants. I include my own currently ********************ty airline NWA. We will not be attracting or keeping the better qualified regional/military pilot in the near future when we start hiring due to the current contract. And before anyone assumes that I am advocating being a hard ass to the fngs I am not.

 

[ohplease!]

I'm in my late 30's
I'm have more time with my kids than any of my friends and neighbors, by comparison.
I have a great wife who doesn't work.
We live in a very nice neighborhood.

there were lean years, but I'm very happy now. when I talk to friends and neighbors about my work and theirs, I rarely leave feeling jealous of their work. I've been told by many that their feelings are quite the opposite.

guess it just depends on the person

I'm a bit older but DITTO! In a huge way.

I've had a "real, 9-5 (what a joke)" job. I don't EVER want another one.

 

[lowery21]

No ********************. This certainly beats working for a living.

9-5 jobs are for suckers who don't know how to fly.


...also Roll Tide....Im tired of losing to you bastards....heheh

 

[Goose Egg]

I've had a "real, 9-5 (what a joke)" job. I don't EVER want another one.

Same here. No thanks! And I'm not 22.

-Goose

 

[TNHillbilly]

I just got done with work and I have five days off...Yeah i had to work four in a row..but I still love it.

 

[ohplease!]

No ********************. This certainly beats working for a living.

9-5 jobs are for suckers who don't know how to fly.


...also Roll Tide....Im tired of losing to you bastards....heheh

something tells me the streak will end at 5....nice choice in new coaches....War Eagle!

 

[flyboydk]

How is this depressing? Desperation on part of regional airlines could mean leverage for pilots.

So you get leverage, maybe get a 10% raise, pay still sucks, and now they get all the new pilots they want. Am I wrong?

 

[11thHour]

There's no way in hell I'd ever regularly get 15 days off per month in my past business/cubicle life. So while I'm gone more hours per month, the hours I am home are more useful as they aren't as broken up as the 9-5'r. When I did the daily rat race, by the time I got home through the traffic, cooked dinner, and did whatever else needed doing, ie clothes, pay bills, shop for food, whatever, it was time for bed to do all over again. By the time the weekend came I was completely worn out.

That said, I have had to learn to make the time home count more. There is a lot to be said for being home everynight, especially when it comes to family. It's easy to come home and get wrapped up in projects, so I have to remember to focus more on them then I did in the daily rat race.

And another that said, we are grossly underpaid for the amount of time we are gone. No doubt about it. Grossly. But then again, I depend on another person for my paycheck. They are the smart ones - the ones who work for and therefore pay themselves.

 

[SKYW Pilot]

Another thing to think about is that a 9-5'r averages about 8-9 full days off a month, while most of us average about 14-15 days off a month. Even if you're on reserve, you're still guaranteed 10 days off a month and you get to sit at home waiting for a call while you're "working." Also, on a 9-5, you get home after sitting in traffic for an hour, make dinner, and go to bed. When I'm home on my days off, we spend quality family time and have fun. Maybe use the flight bennies to go visit friends or go on vacation. Yes, the career ain't what it used to be, but it still beats 9-5 (in my humble opinion)!

 

[FishandFly]

Another thing to think about is that a 9-5'r averages about 8-9 full days off a month, while most of us average about 14-15 days off a month. Even if you're on reserve, you're still guaranteed 10 days off a month and you get to sit at home waiting for a call while you're "working." Also, on a 9-5, you get home after sitting in traffic for an hour, make dinner, and go to bed. When I'm home on my days off, we spend quality family time and have fun. Maybe use the flight bennies to go visit friends or go on vacation. Yes, the career ain't what it used to be, but it still beats 9-5 (in my humble opinion)!

That's a real good point.

Also, usually in the "real world" the harder you work, the bigger the office, the responsibility, and the pay.

If you're a skyw pilot you can have the bigger airplane, bigger responsibility, and everything else you dream of less the bigger paycheck.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

I was just joking with my first post on this thread. I have done the 9-5 thing for about 2 yrs. I did it after 9/11 when there was a small aviation depression. I worked a sales/management (car dealership) job in a partially family owned business. I couldn't stand it. If it was only 9-5 it might have been ok. It was more like 8-6 if you were lucky. Did I make a helluva a payckeck? Yes without a doubt. Had one month where I made 14K plus. I made in the 8-9K on a routine basis. It was a very stressful job, no matter how good you did one month they always wanted a better month the next month. It really wore me down.I got back into flying at the regional about 3 yrs ago and couldn't be more happy. Yes I'm a home body and like to be at home just as much as the next guy. This job provides me quality time at home.

With my other job yes I was at home every night but I was always so stressed out it really wasn't all that enjoyable, also was one of the numerous factors that lead to me getting divorced. I worked out at my other job but only 2 or 3 times per week. Three yrs back into this industry I'm back to working out 5 times per week, eating healthy and leading an active lifstyle. Im back to doing B-J-J at least twice per week besides going to the gym. Currently looking for a school to start boxing at a few times per week besides the regular gym and BJJ.

In all honesty I'm in love with the lifestyle as corny as that sounds. I get to spend more quality time with my 5 yr old son than just about any of my 9-5'r buddies. I have more time to workout and stay in shape than just about anyone I know outside of aviation. I have a new hot young girlfriend that's a personal trainer. I don't know what else I could ask for except for maybe a little better paycheck. (thats why I still dabble a little on the side with cars).
I will take less money ANYDAY to do what I enjoy for a living and to have the time off to do what I enjoy(hobby wise) which is training and spending time with my son.

 

[SKYW Pilot]

Hmmm.... funny.... I went from the Brasilia to the RJ and I'm making almost 20 dollars more an hour. What's your point?

Oh... that's right... the whole 50/70/90 thing. We have a 5% override on the 70/74 seat jets. That puts me at about 70 an hour which is a the same as a 700 Captain at your airline (which I'm thinking is ASA since you hate us so much). I also made almost 6000 in profit sharing last year.

Now, did I vote yes for our pay agreement? Heck no! I thought it was crap, but even our crap agreement is better than the contract you have, plus you pay 2 percent to ALPA every year. I know you guys have been in contract negotiations since '04, and I wish you the best. The SKYW bashing is getting old.

 

[CFI2766]

JP and Fins,

If you guys/gals are not IPs it is not your job to instruct. If the FOs are being released to the line and are not competent, for your own safety/certificate preservation you should have them removed at the next stop. Obviously this will be hard to pull the trigger on someone who seems like a good guy/gal but it has to be done. It is not a personal but professional issue and in the long run you will probably be helping this pilots longterm career. These airlines have to learn that you cannot continue to cand get qualified applicants. I include my own currently ********************ty airline NWA. We will not be attracting or keeping the better qualified regional/military pilot in the near future when we start hiring due to the current contract. And before anyone assumes that I am advocating being a hard ass to the fngs I am not.

Speaking on behalf of new FO's everywhere, you sir, are a scumbag. I don't want to even try to imagine what an incredible joy it must be to have the privilege to share a flight deck with you. (NOTE: EXTREME Sarcasm)

WTF, did you pop out of the training department knowing how to do everything the way that every different line-flying captain wants it to be done? Did you never have a good captain help you, or answer any questions that you might have? I see two possibilities here. First, obviously, you weren't good enough to be selected for the training department at your airline. Second, you don't care enough to even apply to the training department. In either case, what makes you good enough to judge the competency of the coworkers that you fly with? What, because you stuck around long enough to upgrade you are now granted super-duper senior check airman status? The essence of modern CRM training is creating an atmosphere in which ideas, thoughts, and concerns can be aired in an open, mutually supportive environment. You must have missed this in your upgrade training.

Yes, I know it's popular amongst a small segment of senior captains at every airline to berate the new first officers. But to seriously suggest the right way to get back at management for poor 'pay/work conditions' is to 'pull the trigger on someone who seems like a good guy/gal' and 'have them removed at the next stop' is a level of arrogant lunacy that is indicative of a reduced cognitive capacity.

Wake up, put the crack pipe down, pull up your depends, and get out of the 70's.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Lighten up Francis,

Read what I said and what the others in this thread are talking about. First off I am a FO also, don't smoke crack, and was born in the 70s. If a IP were to release me off of IOE before I am ready, I fully expect the capts. I fly with to do the same as I recommended above. Don't know where you work but at nwa the training footprints are getting smaller and smaller. 5-6 days of systems basically teaching you to pass a computerized written instead of a oral. The difference in systems knowledge required from when I was hired 12 years ago and now is staggering. A line capt. should not have to teach, that is not his/her job and should expect nothing less than a fully qualified competent fo. Do you think the regionals would have to lower the requirements if they would pay a respectable wage? No. They are lowering the requirments so they can keep the pay at poverty level and hope that the line capts shoulder the extra burden. I have reread my post and I can't find anywhere that I am advocating berating the new fos. But I fully expect myself and any other fo or capt for that matter to come out of ioe and be able to fly to atp standards. Do you??? This is not a hobby. Btw if we ever flew together I assure you we would have a good time and I'll buy the drinks.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Working 9-5 sucks.....just watch Office Space........

 

[huncowboy]

So you get leverage, maybe get a 10% raise, pay still sucks, and now they get all the new pilots they want. Am I wrong?

Usually when supply/demand changes things change accordingly. Everything else is just bitching and moaning... It is a big true rule of life. 10% pay increase will not make a few thousand of semi qualified pilots overnight. Neither will 100% pay increase. What may drive the pay up is the choice that a qualified pilot might have in a labor driven market. You can already see the incentives that some regionals offer. Not enuffff pilots sound just fine to me. Am I wrong? ... IdunnoIamjustanRJfo..... whatever

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

No kidding, 200 & 1/4 for TSA? While that is a little depressing on the surface, there would be those that if they only had to fly commutable three day trips that paid 22 hrs and had only 48 hrs TAFB, would complain that: 1) it's still 192 hrs away from base; 2) the overnights are too short. My guess is people have been complaining about this since the Wright Brothers had to walk back their original 120 feet after their one-way ticket expired...this is just a new way to present it, and we all knew the reality checking in. That noted, I'd like to see my pay jacked up a little more (yet another interminable complaint)...