Why the lateral move - JBLU-AAI and vice versa?

[Lear70]

OK, I'm really confused. We here at AAI have a handful of people every interview who are wanting to come here from JBLU.

Then we lose a guy or two each month FROM AirTran TO JetBlue.

So... what gives?

The pay scales are so close now for F/O's that they're nearly identical. The attrition seems to be about the same on both sides of the fence as far as senior people leaving going to SWA, FDX, or back to their legacy carrier.

AAI has 10.5% B-fund, JBLU now has an almost equivalent 401k match and guaranteed profit sharing.

Both pilots fly about the same types of trips with similar days off. JBLU has more bases than AAI which makes for nice diversity but AAI's profits have been nicely consistent where JBLU seems to be a little more come and go, especially lately.

Soooo... why do you think guys are bailing each direction?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

 

[motch]

Very simple..
Bases.

I have a few friends at AirTran, and they like it there. Thye have asked me if I want to come over.

I live in NYC, and therefor do not want to comute anymore after I leave my current employer. To say that I'll never commute is unrealistic. But while I have choice in the matter, would rather be with an airline that is doing well and has a base within 20 miles of where I live oppose to a base over 500 miles away.

I also don't want to come to an airline and go to training just to jump ship later on. Everyone is different, everyone has a different agenda and plan. Just mine...

Always
Motch

 

[jetjock6]

I know a guy from Atlanta that left AAI for JB because he felt that they treat their employs better (his words not mine).

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

 

[johnsonrod]

Some people prefer side-sticks to traditional yokes... Seriously, I don't know why one person would jump from one to the other unless domicile was the determining factor. Commuting blows.

I think both airlines are very comparable and it comes down to domiciles and A320/E190 vs. B737NG/B717. The pay seems similar as well.

 

[Lear70]

I just did a long comparison of pay rates and retirement, and the F/O's at JB are compensated on average $7-10 per hour MORE than AAI pilots.

However, AAI CA's are compensated $10-15 per hour MORE than JB pilots.

Over a 25 year career, an AAI pilot with a 5 year upgrade will make approximately $500,000 more than a JB pilot, including retirement.

Those include the JB blended rates at the new payscales.

Go figure.

 

[B727Driver]

AAI has 10.5% B-fund, JBLU now has an almost equivalent 401k match and guaranteed profit sharing.


There is never a guaranteed profit to share. It may be a benefit, but no profit, no profitsharing.

 

[O-Weone Ubabe]

I understand where you are coming from but it is guaranteed profit sharing...whether or not there is a profit to share! You are guaranteed 5% every year with anything over 5% paid as cash.

 

[mnboyev]

The coffee is better at AirTran.... nano nano new new.....

 

[Kharma Police]

The coffee is better at AirTran.... nano nano new new.....

No way, they have Dunkin' Donuts coffee!

 

[SkiFishFly]

The coffee is better at AirTran.... nano nano new new.....

Anybody's coffee is better than AirTran coffee...

 

[Guam360]

No way, they have Dunkin' Donuts coffee!

The dunkin donuts coffee sucks! It sucks anywaym, wherever you get, but especially on our planes. I bring my own jar of Cafe Bustelo instant.

I just happen to see a 6 year captain's w-2 for 2006, it was $239,000.

 

[Lear70]

I just happen to see a 6 year captain's w-2 for 2006, it was $239,000.

Where? FedEx?

Not JetBlue... or AirTran for that matter.

Even if a JetBlue guy credited 100 hours every single month of the year, plus per diem, it wouldn't work out over $200,000.

6th Year CA Base pay: 126.72 * 70 hours = $8,870.40
6th Year CA Premium pay: 190.08 * 30 hours = $5,702.40

Total per month: $14,572.80

12 months: $174,873.60

Per Diem 24/7 for 20 days a month (10 days off): $2.00 / hr = $48 per day * 20 days = $960 per month.

12 months per diem: $11,520.

Total Yearly W-2: $186,393.60

I call bullsh*t.

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

Maybe the chics are hotter at AAI? No captain makes less than $100/hr at AAIwhich is better then JB. Once pay scale for both fleet. Bases is a big determining factor. Commuting to work sucks the big one.

 

[Guam360]

Where? FedEx?

Not JetBlue... or AirTran for that matter.

Even if a JetBlue guy credited 100 hours every single month of the year, plus per diem, it wouldn't work out over $200,000.

6th Year CA Base pay: 126.72 * 70 hours = $8,870.40
6th Year CA Premium pay: 190.08 * 30 hours = $5,702.40

Total per month: $14,572.80

12 months: $174,873.60

Per Diem 24/7 for 20 days a month (10 days off): $2.00 / hr = $48 per day * 20 days = $960 per month.

12 months per diem: $11,520.

Total Yearly W-2: $186,393.60

I call bullsh*t.

It is true, I have a copy of it. $239,000.

 

[Lear70]

I still don't believe it.

Not without some type of ONE-TIME stock payout or other compensation that had nothing to do with line flying.

You can't POSSIBLY explain to me how that level of income at JetBlue is sustainable.

PLEASE tell me you're not drinking the Kool-aid THAT deeply...

 

[Guam360]

you just answered it, there is about $80,000 worth of stock options, etc. in there.
I am jumpseating from MCO to DTW on the May 3rd, if you are on the Aitran flight I will show you.

non the less $239,000 was just that, his Line 1(wages, tips,etc.). there was actually more on a different section, he made alot, more that $300,000.

But the next point to this, no one hired from now gets stock options when hired, there is only employee stock purchase plan, even that is reduced from a 15% discount to 5% discount at purchase.

So the first two year guys made all the money, and do now, It trickles off greatly. I couldn't believe it at first.

 

[Lear70]

OK... so how does that correspond to the present topic?

"Why would people make a lateral move from AAI to JetBlue?"

Telling me what someone made as a one-time, unrepeatable event that is no longer available to new-hires doesn't exactly help make a good argument for that kind of lateral jump...?

 

[XBOEINGDRVR]

Well, I have worked for both and JB culture, training, and atmosphere beats AT hands down. I do like the fact AT has a B fund. I guess it comes down to what bases work for each and the growth/ relative senority. Either way, I believe both are here to stay providing no major crashes....

 

[Guam360]

OK... so how does that correspond to the present topic?

"Why would people make a lateral move from AAI to JetBlue?"

Telling me what someone made as a one-time, unrepeatable event that is no longer available to new-hires doesn't exactly help make a good argument for that kind of lateral jump...?

Ok As$, You questioned the pay, I made a small comment about the pay potential, which was ontrack, then I gave details.

Since you hate your life and Airtran so much leave or kill yourself.

The comment I made about new hires currently do Not receive stock options is part of this thread, and could influence a new hire or someone deciding between Airtran and JB.

 

[Lear70]

Ok As$, You questioned the pay, I made a small comment about the pay potential, which was ontrack, then I gave details.

No, you didn't.

You gave a one-time example of how someone can cash out their stock... IF it wasn't under water.

That kind of income can't be sustained year after year, which makes it a bad example of a reason to make a lateral move.

Since you hate your life and Airtran so much leave or kill yourself.

OK, genius. Where did I say that?

Here's a hint:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=97405&page=3

Post # 36.

The comment I made about new hires currently do Not receive stock options is part of this thread, and could influence a new hire or someone deciding between Airtran and JB.

That's a very pertinent comment. All the other stuff about a quarter million dollars a year income at JB is not... especially given the fact that the stock is no longer available.

Well, I have worked for both and JB culture, training, and atmosphere beats AT hands down. I do like the fact AT has a B fund. I guess it comes down to what bases work for each and the growth/ relative senority. Either way, I believe both are here to stay providing no major crashes....

Well-said.