How big are tips in the frac industry?

[av8orboy]

We have a guy that tips $50 a leg per pilot.

 

[fischman]

When I flew corporate, I once got 1000 Euros (approx $1300 US) from a Saudi. Being a gentleman, I split it up with the crew (2 pilots, incl self, and 2 F/As). Not even a thank you from the F/As... and when we flew back to Olbia, Italy for the layover (I refused to layover in Riyadh) the F/As swiped my room, which left me waiting 4 hours for the next available room. Later that night we got called up to do another charter. I refused to do it initially since I still hadn't really slept due to getting my room late. The F/As accused me of refusing the trip and I had to go eventually. Come to find out later they each got 200 euro.

Ever since then I kept my tips to myself. That said, the tips were few and far between but only came from the Arabs anyway. The Americans, Europeans, Asians and Indians never tipped. Arabs would do it around once a month.

Hope we don't fly together then.

I would hope that you would at least consider splitting it with your flight crew.

I don't know how the rest of you feel, but if I found out that my first officer got a tip from an owner and didn't split it with his captain, he will have a TERRIBLE tour.

I ALWAYS split a tip with my partner, even if it was only $5.

 

[Ultra Grump]

If it were only $5, or even $20, I'd give the whole thing to the FO.

 

[TGTVS]

Lets See. In 5 Years, $50. Hows That For A Tip. The Ramp Rats Get More Than Us.......................

 

[netjetwife]

I don't keep a running tab, but my husband is tipped at least $300-400 a year for his share. $20 tips are most common, then $50s with an occasional $100 tip as a real treat--mostly because of the recognition for superior service which it definitely conveys as the pax intended.

According to etiquette experts it is proper protocol to tip pilots that perform personal services above and beyond flying. Certainly, many frac pilots do that on every flight. There is no shame in accepting a monetary token of appreciation and refusal runs the very real risk of needlessly embarrassing and/or offending the pax who offered it with the best of intentions. Please accept tips gracefully lest you ruin the chances for your fellow pilots that would welcome the extra $ and the tangible sign of appreciation. NJW

 

[whymeworry?]

Hope we don't fly together then.

I would hope that you would at least consider splitting it with your flight crew.

I don't know how the rest of you feel, but if I found out that my first officer got a tip from an owner and didn't split it with his captain, he will have a TERRIBLE tour.

I ALWAYS split a tip with my partner, even if it was only $5.

Don't worry... I won't be flying with you.

The comments were meant towards the FAs due to the reasons stated. Of course my F/O gets the split. And many of my F/Os split equally with me, though if it was less than $100 I insisted they keep it for themselves.

At that operation, we were always battling the FAs; the offer to split my tips with them was, so I thought, a good idea at the time. It was their behavior the rest of the trip that prompted my decision to exclude the back from our tips in the future.

 

[fischman]

Understood...

Don't worry... I won't be flying with you.

The comments were meant towards the FAs due to the reasons stated. Of course my F/O gets the split. And many of my F/Os split equally with me, though if it was less than $100 I insisted they keep it for themselves.

At that operation, we were always battling the FAs; the offer to split my tips with them was, so I thought, a good idea at the time. It was their behavior the rest of the trip that prompted my decision to exclude the back from our tips in the future.

In that case, you can be my wingman anytime!:beer:

 

[Diesel]

Great receive a tip like a cab driver not like the profesional you are.

Sigh.

 

[ozpilot]

Ahhh never mind

 

[netjetwife]

The experts disagree with Diesel--

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1412034663/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-8812656-1767850#reader-link

"It is not necessary to tip pilots unless they provide extra services. Then it is whatever you deem appropriate for the service".

In this guide book to tipping, most frac pilots would deserve tips because of the numerous personal services they perform outside the cockpit.

http://tipping.org/tips/charteredflights.html

"$50-$100 or more per pilot. If chartering a flight for a couple of thousand dollars or more, consider a higher tip. Give the tip to the Captain to distribute amongst the crew. Also tip the ground crew handling your baggage".

Private aviation by its very nature is a personal service. I wouldn't be surprised if those pax tipping this amount had looked it up. We know that many frac pilots handle the baggage as much, if not more than, the line guys. Look at the services performed by pilots in fleets without FAs. Observant pax are well aware of how much the flightcrew is doing.

http://tipping.org/tips/visitorcomments3.html

From Bennett in CA

"charter pilots seem to be the underpaid, undertipped, forgotten members of the service industry. A few of our customers recognize this, but most do not. Those that do will usually tip each crewmember $100 for a short trip and $200 for a long one. We would appreciate if you could include this in your future advice".

Apparently, not all private/business aviation companies discourage clients from tipping--some even try to promote it. It's a recognized fact that most frac/charter pilots do way more than just fly the plane.

http://www.rivercruises.net/Tips/EuropeDeluxeTips.aspx

Gratuities
"Tipping is a personal way to show satisfaction for good service and is always appreciated. The suggested amount is approximately 5% of your cruise fare, per passenger, which is shared and distributed among all of the ship’s staff".

Here's an example of how one cruise line handles the tipping issue. Many travelers welcome advice in this confusing subject. Notice that the ship's captain/pilots get included when the tips are split. Cruises last longer, but the idea is the same. It makes the $50-100 tip perfectly logical.

Notice the focus on tipping being a personal transaction between the givers and receivers of service. That means that it's no one else's business. (hint, hint) Furthermore, it is extremely insulting to demote pilots who earn tips for providing additional help to appreciative pax. For many of our hard-working pilots it's positive reinforcement-- recognition for their efforts, while those not fairly paid are very interested in the additional income. In the frac industry we have both and thus should do everything possible to lend dignity to the practice.

In that spirit, one of the NJ pilots posted articles on the NJ message board on how to increase one's tips. He is routinely tipped well and is proud of the fact as it is a direct reflection on the high quality of his work product. The articles were well received and valued as a source of good ideas on providing first-class customer service. In this industry, red carpet treatment is a requirement for success so it logically follows that those who do well at that aspect of the business (and tips can reflect that) should be respected for their professionalism. Consider that a highly professional frac pilot puts the pax at ease from beginning to end--even when the farewell includes something extra by way of a special thanks for the personal attention. So next time socially savvy owners tip you, show them you also know the rules that govern the white collar world by graciously accepting with manners befitting the professional you are.

I hope this helps clear up the confusion.
Netjetwife

 

[Diesel]

Yeah I am confused. I'm driving cruise ship now?

I'm doing my job. Simple.

I'm not a cab driver, limo driver, or any of the sort. I'm not a waitress working for tips.

Let's see owners should tip me for doing my job from point a to point b even going above and beyond is what they pay for.

You want to be a profesional act like the highly paid one you are. You want to be a cab driver... Well I guess you didn't need to spend all that time training to be a pilot.

 

[Diesel]

I forgot. Tipping is the continuation of the general decline of this industry. Much like the captains authority has been slowly stripped by people from outside the cockpit somehow thinking they are on a same profesional level as the pilots at any company. Captains demands are questioned with a bean counter eye.

Ill look for that same reduction of authority next time I'm in an hospital. But you won't see it.

 

[netjetwife]

Ahhh never mind

Ozpilot, I often post with the readers in mind; some of them comment in PMs to me or to my husband on the road. (Thanks for the feedback guys.. )

I think the topic is worth the effort, considering that it is human nature to enjoy recognition for one's efforts, not to mention that, unfortunately, too many frac pilots can seriously use the tips they get. I dare say that Diesel would have less of a condescending attitude toward tipping if he were more in need of the money himself. Knowing personally how hard it is for an underpaid frac pilot to support a family on the sub-par wages gives me more sympathy, I suppose. I also trust the experts in the fields of transportation and etiquette to know what they're talking about.

In summary: 1) Both on this thread and the NJ message board Diesel is/was very clearly in the minority in his anti-tipping stance. 2) Expressions of appreciation freely given are between the parties directly involved. (Apparently he didn't get the hint... ) 3) Refusing a tip could be considered rude and thus unprofessional behavior.

I rest my case...
NJW

 

[Diesel]

Condescending? Nope just explaining my point. Next time I'm at the doctor ill make sure to throw him an extra 20 for only using one finger not 2.

Using tips to somehow even add in to the master plan of total salary is nuts. Much like thinking perdiem is part of your salary. Don't think it and don't add it into the equation.

I don't turn away tips. I let the owner know it is very much appreciated and I usually give the hole thing to my partner. Turning away tips would be rude but I also consider myself a profesional and above the need to get a handout.

The person who tips gets the same service from me as the person who doesn't tip. They allready are paying my wage.

 

[kilroy]

When I flew charter we would always get tips. The biggest we ever got was 1000$ a piece. Average was about 1-200$ a month totaled.

 

[SCT]

Give up Diesel!.... NJW knows more about your job and the aviation industry then the rest of us.

By the way NJW, how did your husband's election bid go?

 

[Ultra Grump]

Diesel's bitching about receiving tips sounds to me like sour grapes. It's not like we're soliciting them. The pax offer, I graciously accept. Sorry it pisses you off when others get tipped.

I don't have a problem taking a tip when it is offered. However, NJW, your points about tipping charter pilots is not the same situation we have here. You should be asking the corporate pilots who solely fly the plane's owners how often they get tipped. I'm guessing not often, because the people they fly are directly paying their salaries. For the most part, we fly the 'owners' of our aircraft, who while not as directly, in essence are paying our salaries. They should not feel obligated to tip us.

Marquis, however, is much like charter and those folks certainly should tip, because they are the highest-maintenance pax we have.

 

[CA1900]

We got a $50 to split the other night. Crappy weather, choppy ride the whole way, etc. Just one guy on the plane.

At the end of the flight, he hands the $50 to me and says, "This is for you and your partner to split to go get some good drinks after the day I'm sure you had!"

I used it for its intended purpose, and didn't feel demeaned by it.

 

[Diesel]

Ultra it doesn't piss me off at all. I get tipped quite a bit but I make sure the tip goes to the person who really worked hardest.

What I'm annoyed at is njw's exception that we are all so downtrodden that we need these tips to help those poor fractional pilots.

Someone has to say that we are profesionals and tips do come but to not count on them and not to add them into some sort of mysterious budget.

When was the last time you tipped your doctor or lawyer for a job well done?

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Ultra it doesn't piss me off at all. I get tipped quite a bit but I make sure the tip goes to the person who really worked hardest.

What I'm annoyed at is njw's exception that we are all so downtrodden that we need these tips to help those poor fractional pilots.

Someone has to say that we are profesionals and tips do come but to not count on them and not to add them into some sort of mysterious budget.

When was the last time you tipped your doctor or lawyer for a job well done?

I believe you have some good points but I would never put pilots in the same class professionally as lawyers and doctors. Many pilots like to think of themselves as "high-level" as those professions but let's not kid ourselves. I've met a few pilots who wouldn't know how to fill out a law school or medical school application. As much as I respect people who handle themselves professionally as pilots, it's still a blue-collar job even if most pilots have achieved higher levels of education.

Mr. I.

 

[skiandsurf]

As much as I respect people who handle themselves professionally as pilots, it's still a blue-collar job even if most pilots have achieved higher levels of education.

Mr. I.

Being a pilot used to be a highly repsected and highly paid "white collar" job. Then management figured out that pilots really liked wearing leather jackets, some with blue shirts.

Dont complain when you get that dream job, flying an Airbus making $65,000. As one poster said, he could live a great life on $65,000/yr. Not even close, but whatever.

 

[fischman]

I personally have no problem accepting free money.

 

[GVFlyer]

Diesel is right on the money.

In the two positions I've had since leaving the military, the company Ops Manuals have specifically prohibited the acceptance of gratuities.

On a personal level, I consider myself to be a professional just as an airline captain is or as is a doctor or a lawyer. I would never consider trying to push an envelope with a tip enclosed under the reinforced cockpit door for the 777 captain who had just given me a smooth flight to Paris. Nor would I attempt to slip a Benjamin into the hand of a cruise ship captain at the completion of a particularly nice Caribbean cruise. I have also never considered tipping my doctor for a good surgical procedure or my dentist for a nice cap or my lawyer for executing a legal document professionally. I think they would be insulted even though two of them are performing "touch" labor.


GV

 

[stupidpilot]

If you're the captain, you dammed well better let the FAs take the first room. What, you'd rather them wait in the lobby for 4 hours for the next room? A good captain puts his crew first. :angryfire

Normally I would say this is true. But if it impacts your rest and ability to operate safely then I say the F/A's take a back seat to the front end crew. But , if there's nothing planned & you're just sitting around for a while I would let them have the room first.

 

[clueless]

I'm not a ... limo driver

You're not...?

 

[skiandsurf]

I consider myself to be a professional just as an airline captain is or as is a doctor or a lawyer. GV

I wonder how many dentists or lawyers make < $40,000 ? Myself, with 20 years of flying, 16,000 hours, and starting over with kids on the school assisted lunch programs......I doubt there are too many doctors in my situation.

 

[DO-82 driver]

This is the only profession where you have to start out on the bottom when you change or loss a job.

 

[Abbey]

This is the only profession where you have to start out on the bottom when you change or loss a job.

Good, bad, or otherwise, I believe that is one of the tradeoffs of having a CBA and an organized shop.

 

[Muddauber]

This is the only profession where you have to start out on the bottom when you change or loss a job.

That sort of depends on what segment of the industry you pick to work in. I went from aircraft commander in the military to captain in an EJI Gulfstream to FO in a 737.

Even NJA hired street captains at one time.


Muddy

 

[skiandsurf]

That sort of depends on what segment of the industry you pick to work in. I went from aircraft commander in the military to captain in an EJI Gulfstream to FO in a 737.

Even NJA hired street captains at one time.


Muddy

So did Southwest.

Its all about timing.