Opinions on owning a Citabria

[AKMac]

Hey guys, I was just wondering what the general opinion is on these planes. They seem fit my budget (30k-40k) and mission. Are the Bellanca versions worse/better than the American versions? Is there anything bad I should know about them? One thing I'm stressing about is how do you know when a fabric covered airplanes needs to be recovered? Just looking for general info, thanks.

 

[RightPedal]

Pre-purchase inspection by someone that knows fabric covered airplanes and wood spar wings if so equiped. Don't be afraid, or cheap but work smart and do your homework carefully.
Good luck and enjoy. I love them airbatic's spelled backasswards.

 

[A Squared]

Hey guys, I was just wondering what the general opinion is on these planes. They seem fit my budget (30k-40k) and mission. Are the Bellanca versions worse/better than the American versions?

Not really, the ACA built ones are newer, and some of hte later ACA plnes (or maybe all of them) have aluminum spars vs. the original Wood Spars. That is an issue that you need to think about. There is an AD which requires a repetetive inspection of champs and citabrias with wood spars and more then 90 hp (all citabrias have more then 90 hp) There is nothing inherently wrong with the wood spars, although there have been a couple of failures resulting fom damaged spars not being detected and fixed. The AD has a suggested inspection method that calls for cutting inspection holes in the top of the wing, over the spar. This is problematic, as inspection holes are very difficult to seal, and unless the airplane is always hanagared and never flown except on sunny days, moisture will get into the wing, and likely cause the spar to rot. that *is* a problem. One approach would be to cut hte holes and then patch the fabric, but this is a hassle and the inspectin must be done every annual. However, the AD does not specify that the holes must be cut, only that the specified areas must be inspected, and one suggested method of accomplishing this is to cut the. The maintenece advisors at the Bellanca-Champion club hod the opinion that hte required inspection can be accomplished ahd the AD complied with by using a fiber-optic "borescope" thye thing, they have even picked out one that hey sell for about 300 bucks which will do hte job. I think that the key to owning a wood spar citabria is to have an IA who concurs with this interpretation of the AD, and is willing to inspect the spar in this manner. Find someone who has specific experince with this inspection and knows what to look for and how to look. Either way this inspection should not be pencil whipped.

The other approach is to replace the wood spars with an aluminum spar. Millman engineering sells a kit to do this, using the original ribs, or you can buy a set of wings from ACA and replace them. The ACA wings use completely different parts than the wood spar wings, so you replace the entire wing.

At any rate, if you have an aluminum spar wing the AD is a non-issue.


As far as how to know when fabric needs to be replaced, that's a complicated question. Modern polyester fabric will last forever if it is protected from ultraviolet. The Bellanca Citabrias came from the factory with a very thick layer of dope. They laid it on very heavily to make an nice smooth finish. the trouble with that is that it's less flexible and it cracks. A crack lets in sunlight, and the fabric degrades in the area of the crack. ACA is using a different approac to finishing, as I understand it, paint over the dope. This also is less than perfect and I have heard of cracking (and subsequent fabric damage) problems with ACA airplanes. Have a pre-buy inspection done by an inspector who knows fabric covered airplanes. A guy who knows dope and fabric should be able to give you a pretty good idea of the life of the fabric.

I have a citabria that spent it's entire life outside in Alaska and the fabric lasted about 30 years, even with the dope cracking problems.

 

[deadstick]

yea..what A^2 said...

pre-purchase inspection is a must!
find somebody VERY familar with the type and ragwings -- pay a little now, or you may pay a lot more later.
Get one with spades. With a wood spar, the ribs are nailed in. I beleive, without the spades, there is a twist along the spar as control inputs are applied. This causes the nails to back out -- this is BAD. The spades are an assist that push the aileron in the right direction...I think.

They are fun! 7GCBC -- yea!!

 

[A Squared]

Get one with spades. With a wood spar, the ribs are nailed in. I beleive, without the spades, there is a twist along the spar as control inputs are applied. This causes the nails to back out -- this is BAD. The spades are an assist that push the aileron in the right direction...I think.

Hmm, I hadn't heard that the spades prevented nails from coming out. I knew the rib nails backing out was a "feature" just hadn't heard the bit about the spades. Not saying you're wrong. Yeah the spades are an aerodynamic counterbalance for the aileron, lightens stick forces.

 

[Immelman]

Stuff from my experiencing renting them.. haven't been an owner:

Not so much a purchase issue, but be careful with the wing trailing edges; they are surprisingly fragile. I was flying a rental 7gcaa for a while (a new one, just a few years old). Someone (not me!!) walked into the back of the wing (approaching the door) and dinged it. I don't think the ding was too noticable, you'd have to stare at it from the side and would see a little bend in the trailing edge just a few inches long. The airpalne later flew -- with the ding - and as a result a couple wing ribs cracked near the trailing edge of the wing. I don't rent from that outfit anymore!

Fabric thing in general: It doesn't take much to punch a hole in something. Just a general thing to be paranoid about.

If left out in the rain I've seen the ailerons hold water; there were no weep holes in the fabric to allow it to seep out. Hello corrosion?

Get the rigging checked by someone who knows what they're doing. From my lay eyes, there seems to be more to rigging a citabria than your average spam can. Again, from a pilot and non-A&P perspective here are some things I've noticed that you might watch for:
- Does the airplane fly straight hands off (be mindful there is a manually-bendable rudder tab to mess with)
- Are the ailerons even for level flight? Ive seen them a bit crooked, by comparing where they're trailing WRT the wing tip
- Is there any strut vibration indicaing a tension imbalance? Fly the airplane for a minute or two at airspeeds in 5mph increments or so from slow flight all the way up as fast as you're comfortable... said airplane above had a resonance that came in in a small airspeed range in one of the struts
- I believe that in addition to the strut rigging there are braces/turnbuckles inside the fuel tanks (!) I was told this, haven't seen for myself.

The tailwheels can sometimes have a tendence to chatter, sometimes bad enough that you'll have to lift the tail off and set it back down very gently to get rid of this. As I recall, it was fixed by re-bending the leaf springs

 

[VNugget]

Not so much a purchase issue, but be careful with the wing trailing edges; they are surprisingly fragile. I was flying a rental 7gcaa for a while (a new one, just a few years old). Someone (not me!!) walked into the back of the wing (approaching the door) and dinged it. I don't think the ding was too noticable, you'd have to stare at it from the side and would see a little bend in the trailing edge just a few inches long. The airpalne later flew -- with the ding - and as a result a couple wing ribs cracked near the trailing edge of the wing. I don't rent from that outfit anymore!

Was that by any chance a yellow and blue Citabria in Watsonville?

 

[Immelman]

Sending you a PM Vnugget...

 

[Mike Eggen]

Get one with spades. With a wood spar, the ribs are nailed in. I beleive, without the spades, there is a twist along the spar as control inputs are applied. This causes the nails to back out -- this is BAD. The spades are an assist that push the aileron in the right direction...I think.

Hmm, I hadn't heard that the spades prevented nails from coming out. I knew the rib nails backing out was a "feature" just hadn't heard the bit about the spades. Not saying you're wrong. Yeah the spades are an aerodynamic counterbalance for the aileron, lightens stick forces.

I'm in the process of recovering the wings on my 79 super d and even though
I'd replaced a lot of rib nails already, with the fabric off it was very apparent
that most of the nails backed out in the airelon bays, with spades. thats where the the wings twist the most. Like every one else said find someone who knows the planes for a pre buy and have fun. Great airplanes
Who ever dented the trailing edge with their head must either be a hard headed sob or needed an ambulance because I have a "friend" who's ran his head into them and they're not that fragile!