Capt Prater: Here is your sign!

[Huck]

Over age 60 flying is coming to America. Get used to it.

I will never get used to the fact that I'll be getting ~5 more years as an F/O.

I seriously doubt that you would, either.

 

[FO 4 Life]

I'm sure changing the rule to 65 will be predicated on ensuring one pilot flying is under 60. If it's for the love of flying instead of money as some argue, leave the captain rule at 60 and everyone who wants to fly to 65 can be a senior FO. This protects career advancement, makes the older pilot a senior bidder, and eases the scheduling problem.

 

[HalinTexas]

Cry me a river where was your savings plan when you were making 200K? you were a fool and spent like one. Now I am suppose to stay at 1800 a month so that you can make up for your foolish way. There are consequences for every thing that we do. You never saved for retirement now you are suppose to get a special privilege while the rest of the industry suffers for you stupidity?

My savings plan never depended on a pension. But, for those that did, they worked for ALPA carriers for 20+ years that negotiated those pensions for them. Now, ALPA negotiates them away. If you'll check around, you'll notice that most airlines don't offer an "A" fund or any other defined contribution fund (pension), so that leaves most to fend for themselves. You'll also find that ALPA doesn't represent everyone, therefore they don't speak for everyone.

Me personally, I never believed pensions were gonna stick around, so I never wanted one. However, ALPA negotiated away wages and part of my retirement plan. I took my 50+% pay cut and saw my retirement contributions dwindle quite a bit. I'm only 41, so I've got time, however, I fully expect another downturn in the industry. I also expect to work past 60 just to pay for insurance if nothing else.

Lowering SS and/or Medicare will never happen, so there's no point in discussing it. However, it's still lie to think you can live your life on SS/Medicare alone.

 

[HalinTexas]

I think you have ALPA confused with bankruptcy court. That is where the pensions were trashed.

Incorrect. All of them were negotiated away under threat of an 1113c action. ALPA was too chicken to fight. They didn't believe they could win, so they ran.

All the reason to raise the retirement age anyway.

 

[sandman2122]

I'm glad to read that the FAA will not grandfather the over 60 FE's - just hope this process gets dragged out as long as possible.

 

[HalinTexas]

I know of several individuals at ATA already that don't have to work. Most are no where near 60, but they chose to work for whatever reason. I know one guy that runs a small trucking company via his cell and the crew room computers. He's about my age.

 

[Cobra]

Sounds like part of a grander plan:

Uniformity of regulations = easier to impliment "open skies".

Amen, the truth is usually nothing like you expect if, and it's a big if, it comes out at all.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

FJ, I feel your pain but this horse is out of the barn. Hitch up your drawers and plan accordingly.

That sums up the "defeatist" attitude.

I firmly believe that it is not a done deal; and the repeal of the age 65 rule can be fought and won. I know how it can be fought and defeated, and once ALPA decides that they truly wish to represent the "will of the majority" of their members, I will be glad to tell them how to do it.

I believe that ALPA and the APA have the resources to fight this and win; however, without ALPA onboard, probably will be a 'done deal.' If Prater has any doubt where his membership stands, why doesn't he conduct an updated poll of the membership. This polling should include all 'active member' and then also poll all 'inactive/furloughed' members (as they also represent their interests as well), and then publish the results; all active members for/against, and then a total for/against (including inactive members).

And, if Prater does not act based on the will of the majority of 'his' membership, then he should be Immediately Recalled. Simple as that!

As I said, when/if ALPA decides to fight this, I can tell them how it can be fought, and probably defeated; no guarantees in anything, but probably the best way that it can be Defeated.

Just my $0.02, for what's it worth.

DA

 

[Hamburger]

What about the many that have lost their pensions? What are you going to do about it? Many are in their 50's with little time to make up the difference. ALPA gave them away, but has no plans to get them back. This is the biggest reason by far to raise the retirement age.

So management steals your pension and you think the union's position to get it back should be to work harder and longer for less money? Leadership that thinks like this make me want to vomit. You think that they shouldn't fight a rule that will facilitate the import of cheap foriegn labor to do your job for less?

As for the independently wealthy types that want to keep flying becuase they "love it" and those that didn't have their pensions stolen: This is the absolute height of selfishness and greed. All the guys that won't be able to have the house, education opportunities for their children, quality of life that you enjoyed when it was your turn becuase you want to use your job as a hobby?! Have some dignity and go fly something else.

 

[vtwo]

[quote=embryflyboy;1270884]Cry me a river where was your savings plan when you were making 200K? you were a fool and spent like one. Now I am suppose to stay at 1800 a month so that you can make up for your foolish way. There are consequences for every thing that we do. You never saved for retirement now you are suppose to get a special privilege while the rest of the industry suffers for you stupidity? [/quote]



when you think like this it shows just how selfish this industry is. It's all about me!!!!!!!!!! unless it doesn't affect me, then I will take the moral high road.

It is just age discrimination plain and simple. As far as your comment on savings,
would be so quick to judge if your negotiated mortgage on your house was just doubled because the mortgage company had some financial problems. Then went to a judge to say "hey. we need to make more money to stay in business so we need this to happen."

well that is what happened to all those who were promised a pension and had it stolen out from under them. It really is 2 separate issues.
1. age discrimination
2. corporate thievery assisted by political agents

I am to the point where I want nothing from my employer but cash. no promised sick days, no health benefits, no pension, no travel benefits. just pay me what they say my hourly package costs them. I will then take care of my family with it the way I see fit. That way there will be no let downs.