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Another ASA thread

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MELIT

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Posts
317
Hey ladies, how are the former Comair planes doin? You know, the ones that you said you would forbid to fly. It looks like you all are getting pretty giddy to take even more of them. I guess everybody looks out for #1 in the end.
 
We are all so excited it about it that we are jumping ship as fast as we can. 30+ this month.
I do not want you jets or your jobs.
We are next, just watch.
It is a sick game that we as pilots must stand together on. Not divided. Being self preservationists helps no one.
IMHO
 
No problem tool box.
 
ACL65PILOT said:
I do not want you jets or your jobs.
We are next, just watch.
It is a sick game that we as pilots must stand together on. Not divided. Being self preservationists helps no one.
IMHO
Click to expand...

In THEORY, you are correct, but in reality world peace is more likely. Absent a strong NATIONAL union that takes the ability of whipsaw away from managment, your wish is just that.... a wish.....

The fact is, WE ARE DIVIDED, and we will continue to look out for our own best interests. No amount of wishing will change that.....
 
MELIT said:
Hey ladies, how are the former Comair planes doin? You know, the ones that you said you would forbid to fly. It looks like you all are getting pretty giddy to take even more of them. I guess everybody looks out for #1 in the end.
Click to expand...

We're not getting any more CMR airframes, and I haven't run into anybody here who is happy about the ones we do have. Incidentally, those airplanes are on ASA property due to a clause negotiated by your company in the purchase agreement. They were coming here no matter what. They were never part of the RFP. Personally, I wish they had been. That way, when CMR signs off on their TA (which I think they likely will, who could blame them), the planes would most likely go back. We don't want them, and we didn't lowball anybody to get them.

Man, I hope you get hit by the crew bus sometime soon.
 
FmrFreightDog said:
We're not getting any more CMR airframes, and I haven't run into anybody here who is happy about the ones we do have. Incidentally, those airplanes are on ASA property due to a clause negotiated by your company in the purchase agreement. They were coming here no matter what. They were never part of the RFP. Personally, I wish they had been. That way, when CMR signs off on their TA (which I think they likely will, who could blame them), the planes would most likely go back. We don't want them, and we didn't lowball anybody to get them.

Man, I hope you get hit by the crew bus sometime soon.
Click to expand...

Sorry to burst your bubble FmrFreightDog, but I heard many FOs cheer the fact that we would be getting more aircraft so they "could upgrade, get PIC time, and get out of here". The majority of pilots at regionals just want to upgrade so they can get PIC time and move on.... they will take airplanes from anyone. Sad but true... that is the system we have built.......
 
COOPERVANE said:
I haven't heard anyone excited about it either
Click to expand...

They aren't excited about "taking airplanes", but they are excited that we are growing again so that they can upgrade. We had FOs who were excited about taking CMRs airplanes during the strike because it meant growth, and upgrades, and PIC, and moving on to the majors. I know many of you don't want to admit it, but there is very little solidarity at the regional level. Sorry if the truth hurts, but it doesn't alter the fact....... Some of you might not be "hearing" it because you DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT. Reality can be a b!tch.....
 
JoeMerchant said:
Sorry to burst your bubble FmrFreightDog, but I heard many FOs cheer the fact that we would be getting more aircraft so they "could upgrade, get PIC time, and get out of here". The majority of pilots at regionals just want to upgrade so they can get PIC time and move on.... they will take airplanes from anyone. Sad but true... that is the system we have built.......
Click to expand...

I haven't flown with a single FO who has said anything of the sort. Guess we're not hanging out with the same people.
 
So XXXX,

Your conclusion is that a few pilots in the baddabing lounge equals "lots" ?

You are well informed yourself, but misguided and certainly determined to undermine your own pilot group.

I have a new name for you and your small group.


The XX INSURGENCY.

And you will not win!

Medeco

Mod Edit: Initials Removed
 
Last edited by a moderator:
FmrFreightDog said:
I haven't flown with a single FO who has said anything of the sort. Guess we're not hanging out with the same people.
Click to expand...

Your a hard core ALPA rules, management sucks, type. Of course you don't hear that from your FOs. They aren't stupid, they know you don't want to hear it. The typical regional FO is all about cooperate to graduate - don't rock the boat - on EITHER SIDE. They want growth so they can get PIC time and leave, but they aren't going to tell a hard core ALPA guy that they are happy we are getting more airplanes even if they come from CMR. We are hanging out with the same people, but you aren't listening to the "silent majority".
 
Medeco said:
So XX,

Your conclusion is that a few pilots in the baddabing lounge equals "lots" ?

You are well informed yourself, but misguided and certainly determined to undermine your own pilot group.

I have a new name for you and your small group.


The XX INSURGENCY.

And you will not win!

Medeco
Click to expand...


Your right Medeco - WE will not win. ALPA is a fractured group of independent groups all looking out for themselves. Why would I want to "undermine" our own group? What exactly is our group fighting for? Is ALPA behind it? Are the mainline pilots behind it?

No the baddabing is not "lots", but the fact of the matter is that most regional pilots don't care what you or I say. They are just passing thru - in fact I suspect you fall into that group. As long as the majority of regional pilots are just passing through, and as long as we all compete with each other for growth, nothing will change - AND NOBODY WILL WIN!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
JoeMerchant said:
Your right Medeco - WE will not win. ALPA is a fractured group of independent groups all looking out for themselves. Why would I want to "undermine" our own group? What exactly is our group fighting for? Is ALPA behind it? Are the mainline pilots behind it?

You had your chance to do something about it. Oh, yeah, you filed the lawsuit that is nearing dismissal.

No the baddabing is not "lots", but the fact of the matter is that most regional pilots don't care what you or I say.

Then, why do you waste your time here?
Click to expand...
 
JoeMerchant said:
Your a hard core ALPA rules, management sucks, type. Of course you don't hear that from your FOs. They aren't stupid, they know you don't want to hear it. The typical regional FO is all about cooperate to graduate - don't rock the boat - on EITHER SIDE. They want growth so they can get PIC time and leave, but they aren't going to tell a hard core ALPA guy that they are happy we are getting more airplanes even if they come from CMR. We are hanging out with the same people, but you aren't listening to the "silent majority".
Click to expand...

Using that logic, the same argument can be made that you're a hard core anti-ALPA type. Of course you don't hear resentment at being put in the position of flying CMRs airplanes by your FOs. They aren't stupid, they know they'll get a "state of ALPA" lesson from you, and they likely don't want to hear it. It's kind of an academic debate anyhow, although kind of an interesting discussion on how people tailor their conversations based on what they think the other person wants to hear.

Anyhow, I don't push my personal anti-management views on anyone while I'm at work. I don't even bring it up unless I'm specifically asked... just like politics and religion. So, unless everybody here knows who I really am already, then I doubt they're holding back on their feelings about the CMR jets for my benefit. I'm a relatively anonymous guy at ASA, while you are known by most. I think I've got a better chance of hearing what a guy really thinks just because for the most part they don't already know my views on the CMR airplanes, ASA management, ALPA, etc.
 
JoeMerchant said:
Your a hard core ALPA rules, management sucks, type. Of course you don't hear that from your FOs. They aren't stupid, they know you don't want to hear it. The typical regional FO is all about cooperate to graduate - don't rock the boat - on EITHER SIDE. They want growth so they can get PIC time and leave, but they aren't going to tell a hard core ALPA guy that they are happy we are getting more airplanes even if they come from CMR. We are hanging out with the same people, but you aren't listening to the "silent majority".
Click to expand...

I have yet to hear ANYONE at ASA "giddy" about taking CMR airplanes, captain or FO. I haven't even heard anyone mildly excited.

Let's be real here, Joey. You sit there and needle your FOs about ALPA's shortfalls until they agree with you while they're locked in the cockpit with you. We all know you do it, and we all know that your FOs will say whatever you want to hear to shut you up after listening to three days of your ranting about how ALPA sucks and they need to call DN/WF/DU/NT and tell them so. We know this because they all make fun of you behind your back.

I don't think your sampling of ASA pilots is very valid. But it serves your self-serving agenda, so go for it. We all know your opinion is about as valid as a passenger telling us how to fly an airplane.
 
I have been a FO for almost 5 years at ASA. I hate flying an aircraft that has CA on it. I have never said anything bad against Joe Merchant, but I have to disagree with you on this one. We are leaving 15-30 a month and if you do hear a brand new FO saying that, maybe you should let them have it. I know that I would.
I was so pissed when Skyworst would be flying our planes. Now were are in the same boat and I hate it. We need to be united not divided. It sucks and so does the regionals. With attrition the way it is, I will upgrade in 4 months, get my 1000 pic and get the hell out of this place. With all the fighting and being divided, they can have it.
 
Wait, I am missing something. When was the vote put out to pilots about taking on planes or letting planes go? I thought it was mgmt decision. I thought big dog D decides and then comair and ASA follows. So where did pilots come into equation on this one? Man If it were up to pilots everysingle airline would have 747, 777, and any other airframe the pilots want on the property, right? This is my unbias comment. I don't care what anyone's opinion is, but it is not up to pilots to decided which airline losses planes and which one picks them up..........have fun bashing back!
 
JoeMerchant said:
They aren't excited about "taking airplanes", but they are excited that we are growing again so that they can upgrade. We had FOs who were excited about taking CMRs airplanes during the strike because it meant growth, and upgrades, and PIC, and moving on to the majors. I know many of you don't want to admit it, but there is very little solidarity at the regional level. Sorry if the truth hurts, but it doesn't alter the fact....... Some of you might not be "hearing" it because you DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT. Reality can be a b!tch.....
Click to expand...

And what is funny is that most of the FOs can't even qualify for a quick upgrade. They lack the 3000TT and I doubt that the Company will waive it for the jet.
 
I haven't had any FOs whine about not being able to upgrade. Dissatisfied with ASA management, particularly the way management has conducted theirselves during negotiations, yes. And of course, the crappy schedules that have trips where you sit in ABY, VLD, and others for 18 hours after a two leg day. And we're short of pilots but GG and his gang can't come up with productive schedules? Righttttt!

Hoser
 
There's another reason I'm seriously considering moving to ExpressJet, I'll fall into that group that may very well be up for upgrade but lacking the 3,000 total time. I can't even tell you how pissed I'd be if I were senior enough to upgrade only to be bypassed because they didn't waive the 3,000 hour requirement. From what I understand, ExpressJet's upgrade minimums are ATP mins...
 
ASACRJFlyer said:
There's another reason I'm seriously considering moving to ExpressJet, I'll fall into that group that may very well be up for upgrade but lacking the 3,000 total time. I can't even tell you how pissed I'd be if I were senior enough to upgrade only to be bypassed because they didn't waive the 3,000 hour requirement. From what I understand, ExpressJet's upgrade minimums are ATP mins...
Click to expand...

They waived it in the past on the RJ, circa 2000. I'm sure they will again if the need arises. Having said that, consider how qualified you will actually be to command an aircraft with 50 people in the back with ATP mins, and I'm not talking about the day to day routine of pushing buttons on the FCP.
 

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