NWA Parking 30-50 narrowbodies

[nwaredtail]

NWA is going to announce that they are parking 30-50 DC-9's and Airbus' over the next 2 years. This should net about 400-500 less pilot positons. No furloughs anticipated due to limited growth of 757, A330 and retirements, just 4-5 years of stagnation. Hope you Mesaba and Compass folks enjoy those POS RJ's. Hope you senior folks enjoy your MF pension.

Former Negotiating Chairman, MEC Chairman had this information when the TA was signed but wouldn't let the information be given to the membership.

 

[MD80DRVR]

Ouch!

 

[BigMeat]

Hey didnt you guys vote to relieve scope? Its not really the guys at the regionals that decide to fly these aircraft its us at the majors that allow it. The only thing the regionals can do is fight to increase compensation on these jets as we hand it down to them. After the cat is out of the bag then good luck. All when can do is help our regional brothers fight for what they are worth. Pointing your finger at a Mesaba guy is no good. Your MEC chair may have had this info and didnt give it up, but what did you think they were going to do with the 70-90+ seat aircraft? Sounds like the senior guys at NWA were looking to save their own butts. Either way good luck I hope that you can integrate the Compass to make up for it.

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

Hey didnt you guys vote to relieve scope? Its not really the guys at the regionals that decide to fly these aircraft its us at the majors that allow it. The only thing the regionals can do is fight to increase compensation on these jets as we hand it down to them. After the cat is out of the bag then good luck. All when can do is help our regional brothers fight for what they are worth. Pointing your finger at a Mesaba guy is no good. Your MEC chair may have had this info and didnt give it up, but what did you think they were going to do with the 70-90+ seat aircraft? Sounds like the senior guys at NWA were looking to save their own butts. Either way good luck I hope that you can integrate the Compass to make up for it.

That is the best overall opinion on this board I think I have ever read. Jet pilots at mainline would be the best for every airline pilot in the U.S and A. Don't hate the regional guys, support them. We don't want to undercut mainline just the same as you don't want us to. Help us to get better rates and/or bring it all to mainline...better for everybody.

 

[dbrownie]

NWA is going to announce that they are parking 30-50 DC-9's and Airbus' over the next 2 years. This should net about 400-500 less pilot positons. No furloughs anticipated due to limited growth of 757, A330 and retirements, just 4-5 years of stagnation. Hope you Mesaba and Compass folks enjoy those POS RJ's. Hope you senior folks enjoy your MF pension.

Former Negotiating Chairman, MEC Chairman had this information when the TA was signed but wouldn't let the information be given to the membership.

Source?

DB

 

[LaidOffAgain]

NWA is going to announce that they are parking 30-50 DC-9's and Airbus' over the next 2 years. This should net about 400-500 less pilot positons. No furloughs anticipated due to limited growth of 757, A330 and retirements, just 4-5 years of stagnation. Hope you Mesaba and Compass folks enjoy those POS RJ's. Hope you senior folks enjoy your MF pension.

Former Negotiating Chairman, MEC Chairman had this information when the TA was signed but wouldn't let the information be given to the membership.

What an edumacated guy! He/She is probably the same D/S that called Mesaba guys scabs when NWA gave them the Avro! Oh and who signed off on Compass? The guys that aren't at Compass yet?? I think we voted to allow that!(Not me, I was collecting unemployment again). You probably voted to keep McClain in office right? You make your own bed! Now deal with it!

 

[Fly4hire]

NWA is going to announce that they are parking 30-50 DC-9's and Airbus' over the next 2 years. This should net about 400-500 less pilot positons. No furloughs anticipated due to limited growth of 757, A330 and retirements, just 4-5 years of stagnation.

Without quoting a source or hearing it offcially from the company or MEC it's just rumor.

Source please?

 

[Occam's Razor]

NWA is going to announce that they are parking 30-50 DC-9's and Airbus' over the next 2 years. This should net about 400-500 less pilot positons. No furloughs anticipated due to limited growth of 757, A330 and retirements, just 4-5 years of stagnation.

Check your dope. NWA has planned to park DC-9's as they hit 104,000 cycles. That means 20 of them parked over the next two years. That was calculated as the pay rates and staffing numbers were settle during contract negotiations. It was presented at the Roadshows. The Airbus parking is a rumor, based on some lease language that was negotiated by NWA in January, 2006. The early series hulls (Ships 3201, 03, 04, 05, 09, and 10) are under "step leases"...meaning they can be renegotiated when NWA exits Chapter 11. Ships 3202, 06, 07, and 08 were permanently parked early last year.

Former Negotiating Chairman, MEC Chairman had this information when the TA was signed but wouldn't let the information be given to the membership.

Huh? The entire pilot group had the parking schedule for the DC-9 fleet in 1999! It was posted on the Council 1 bulletin board. Other than keeping the DC-9-10's longer than they predicted, and losing a few hulls due to boo boo's (rammed by fuel truck, used as a ram on Ship 3246, and wrecked by a SuperTug)...they've stuck to the schedule we all read in '99.

So I guess your allegation is correct. The former MEC Chairman, and the former Negotiating Chairman did have that information...along with the rest of us!

The delivery of 6 of the 8 remaining A330's will take place this year. Based on the pilots-per-hull ratio at 2006 utilization rates, that's more pilots needed than the loss from the pre-planned attrition aircraft.

Starting next year, we start the launch of the B787, with 6 of the 18 firm deliveries in 2008.

 

[nwaredtail]

Let's see ,source........Well, I could tell everyone, but then my source would stop being my source, so.....Niet. Let's just say he/she has never been incorrect. Ever.

I don't dislike RJ guys. The senior, cool-aid, save my own ass, pilots at NWA gave away scope. I certainly didnt vote to give my captain job away. But, I guess 38% of us were idiots.

As far as getting the RJ pay up, never going to happen. Too many newbies that like the shiny new jet. This (2000-2006) was the ERA of some really senior, long time RJ Captains and the only thing that has happened is pay has gone down. What do you think will happen with newer, less "anchored" pilots. IMO, the only way to get pay up is sympathy strikes for all ALPA carriers. When one strikes, we all strike. PEB, Screw you, who cares. Get some stones and things will change. Act civilized and you get..........what we have gotten.

 

[Fly4hire]

Let's see ,source........Well, I could tell everyone, but then my source would stop being my source, so.....Niet. Let's just say he/she has never been incorrect. Ever.and things will change..

I don't mean name, but aprx. position, as in MEC Rep, or VP something or another (as opposed to intern or ATI) that would have the access to accurate information.

 

[redflyer65]

Hey the TA was a piece of crap when it came out of the MEC, and it's still a piece of crap now. Nothing has changed. I hated the "NewCo" concept from the beginning, but the stupid thing was when you talked to any Northwest guys about the MidAtlantic fiasco at USAir, they would just look at you with a blank stare. The next question out of their mouth was "what is MidAtlantic". It was exactly what management was feeding you, directly out of the USAir play book.

What happened to the MidAtlantic/USAir furloughs? The company was sold to Republic Holdings and the they decided just to take the aircraft only. Pilots were welcome to re-interview.

The bankruptcy mostly was a scam to begin with as the Flight Attendants are finding out now. They get much better lease rates, slash the labor pay scales and tell the original shareholders so long. Just wait until you guys see the profits start rolling in. It will be sick!

Oh, and don't forget about the MEP (Management Equity Program) yet to be announced. They decided to leave it out of the recent bankruptcy release. They'll put it out on a Friday afternoon and take a long weekend. Talk about a bonus? Look out.

 

[nwaredtail]

Occam's, after "checking my dope"

From the NWA flight Ops webpage:

DC-9 Fleet status as of January 06

'03 '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '09 10
165 158 142 141 136 128 124 119
Net change from 2003 to 2005 is a minus 23 aircraft.


REALITY

Feb 07 - 110 in service = NWA and ALPA wrong by 26 airplanes

End of 08 - 70-80 in service = NWA and ALPA wrong by 48-58 planes

but what is 500-600 pilots between friends...

 

[xjhawk]

can someone please tell me how they can park aircraft before they planned, when they seem to be cancelling more and more flights? Does this make sense? Not that I beleive management ever makes sense!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Occam's, after "checking my dope"

From the NWA flight Ops webpage:

DC-9 Fleet status as of January 06

'03 '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '09 10
165 158 142 141 136 128 124 119
Net change from 2003 to 2005 is a minus 23 aircraft.


REALITY

Feb 07 - 110 in service = NWA and ALPA wrong by 26 airplanes

End of 08 - 70-80 in service = NWA and ALPA wrong by 48-58 planes

but what is 500-600 pilots between friends...

I see where you're disconnecting...

The difference is the 24 aircraft "in storage" that are under the cycle limit. They are cycled into the system when one of the other hulls reaches a phase inspection point. The 24 hulls, less the 3 wrecked aircraft equals the total from the flight ops page for '07. [You cited 23 as the difference. The web site doesn't reflect the loss of the SuperTug mishap aircraft, which hasn't been officially struck]

Not to be pedantic, but the Ship numbers for the remaining DC-9's are: 9914, 9915, 9919, 9923, 9930, 9931, 9935, 9938, 9940, 9945, 9951, 9957, 9958, 9959, 9960, 9962, 9966, 9969, 9976, 9977, 9980, 9981, 9982, 9990. [Note: There are two other aircraft out-of-service, 9937, and 9942, but they are not RVSM at this time]

ALPA tracks which aircraft are "in-service" by insurance. Aircraft not active aren't insured. The Scope Scorecards ALPA publishes reflect the active aircraft and number of pilots in each category.

Here's the key detail: The current staffing level is based on the active hulls (duh!). That's all we care about.

When the fleet plan was posted in '99, there was a detailed explanation of the "master plan" for preserving the DC-9 fleet by rotating aircraft. At the time, ALPA expressed a lot of skepticism about NWA's commitment to keeping the fleet up-to-snuff, and finding a replacement aircraft before the fleet timed-out.

Those are still legitimate concerns.

Your source might be making the same assumptions you did about the active DC-9 fleet. Did his numbers come from the Scope Scorecard, or the Flight Ops site? As you might have guessed, I'm pretty interested in staffing and aircraft status. Let me know what you find out.

 

[Beetle007]

"End of 08 - 70-80 in service = NWA and ALPA wrong by 48-58 planes"


Why do you say NWA was wrong? In late 2005, mgmt was planning on being down to approximately 60 DC-9s by 2008.

So the latest news is actually a step in the positive direction. NWA was off by about 10-20 airplanes I guess.

 

[michael707767]

can someone please tell me how they can park aircraft before they planned, when they seem to be cancelling more and more flights? Does this make sense? Not that I beleive management ever makes sense!

sure it makes sense. Getting ready for the inevitable merger with Delta. Do it now while you are in BK.

 

[xjhawk]

well, who knows what is on their mind, but i do know that if they remain independent, I think the upper level managers would stand to make more in stocks and bonus's. So i think that and the pilot groups opposing it would be the biggest hurdle

 

[whymeworry?]

No sympathy for the NW yes-voters... you whimps know who you are.

I feel really bad for the NO voters. You guys ought to have bag tags and lapel pins made up showing your stance on the vote for your pathetic contract.

Fkng yes-voters... all that chest beating over the mechanics strike. No support for the other unions and the pilots, in one fell swoop, vote to race the entire industry to the bottom.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

deleted

 

[YourPilotFriend]

This information should be read, "they are removing the flying of these aircraft from the schedule." They have to keep a certain number of airplanes, their frequencies will be decreased.

 

[accinelli]

Occam's, after "checking my dope"

From the NWA flight Ops webpage:

DC-9 Fleet status as of January 06

'03 '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '09 10
165 158 142 141 136 128 124 119
Net change from 2003 to 2005 is a minus 23 aircraft.


REALITY

Feb 07 - 110 in service = NWA and ALPA wrong by 26 airplanes

End of 08 - 70-80 in service = NWA and ALPA wrong by 48-58 planes

but what is 500-600 pilots between friends...

Yeah NWA should continue to fly those DC9s just as a social responsibility to pilots.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Yeah NWA should continue to fly those DC9s just as a social responsibility to pilots.

Acci - (I-hate-pilots-and-am-bitter-because-I-busted-too-many-checkrides/got-a-violation-didn't-want-to-pay-my-dues) -nelli is back.