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Prater's Blue Ribbon Panel (5 Captains/1 First Officer)

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SlipItIn

Yo, Check it!
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Posts
19
Prater's Blue Ribbon Panel (6 Captains/1 First Officer)

Pro-Age 60 pilots: I can't imagine you not being disgusted by this. Six Captain's, One First Officer? This thing is so obviously rigged toward a change it is comical! I urge you to report your dismay to [email protected].



Regarding Age 60, Prater announced his selections for the ALPA Blue Ribbon Panel on Pilot Retirement:

Atlas Capt. Scott Schleiffer,
United Capt. Mary McMillan,
ExpressJet Capt. Jim Foster,
Delta Capt. Don Wykoff,
FedEx Capt. Scott Stratton, and
Continental First Officer Neil Schwartz.
Capt. Chris Beebe, ALPA’s Vice-President-Finance/Treasurer, will chair the Panel.
“I will direct this Panel to develop a strategy to ensure that the FAA considers line pilot interests in any final rule,” Prater said.
 
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Any idea of the ages of the Captains? Seems to me it could make a lot of difference depending on their ages. ( a 40 year old Cpt. might be anti change whereas a 58 year old could be pro change)
 
Bottom line on the pilot's ages is that a pilot contemplating 5 more years of captain's pay is not going to look at this the same as an FO looking at five more years of FO pay.

Where is a furloughed pilot representative on his rigged panel? They have the most to lose with this change.
 
Only one FO (who until recently was a captain at Expressjet) and only one regional airline representative.

:0
 
How about this blue ribbon panel....The ALPA membership. There is a novel idea Prater!!! This guy needs to resign before he even gets started.
 
SlipItIn said:
Bottom line on the pilot's ages is that a pilot contemplating 5 more years of captain's pay is not going to look at this the same as an FO looking at five more years of FO pay.

Where is a furloughed pilot representative on his rigged panel? They have the most to lose with this change.
Click to expand...

Okay, so you don't know the ages of these pilots. Check. Sweet flamethrower.
 
PastV1 said:
Which one you guys complaining tried to get involved with the process?

Past.....
Click to expand...

I am quite involved.

John Prater has a duty of representation that he is clearly not living up to. It is an interesting strategy by our union President when you try to unite the ALPA pilots to "Take It Back" while simultaneously alienating the majority of your constituency by going against their will and supporting a self-serving rule change that will negatively affect more ALPA pilots than it will help.

WTF is the blue ribbon panel anyway? It is no more than an end-around to the published poll results that clearly showed the ALPA majority opposing a change. I appears if you are the President and you do not agree with your union's poll results you then form a blue-ribbon panel and stack it with people who agree with your point of view so you can go against the majority opinion.

Do you think the pro-65 crowd would be screaming bloody murder if there were 6 First Officer's and 1 Captain on the panel? Get real. They already are calling anyone pro-age 60 a scab. It is very telling that APAAD is not upset about the blue ribbon panel. While they will never admit it publicly they now know ALPA's efforts are rigged in their favor.
 
FO Schwartz has done some good things and is a smart dude. But, he will not neccessarily be able to read the will of the ALPA majority as a mandate. He'll get caught up in the hubris of the captains on the panel and be doing exactly as they tell him to all too soon.
 
...and thus the corruption in ALPA continues. Gee even I didn't think they'd get to Prater that fast. Way to stand strong buddy. You talk the talk but you tripped and fell on your face doing the walk.

ALPA's new motto: "We got more backstabbing and backroom deals than a Sopranos eppisode"

FU Prater!!!
 
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Regarding Age 60, Prater announced his selections for the ALPA Blue Ribbon Panel on Pilot Retirement:

Atlas Capt. Scott Schleiffer,
United Capt. Mary McMillan,
ExpressJet Capt. Jim Foster,
Delta Capt. Don Wykoff,
FedEx Capt. Scott Stratton, and
Continental First Officer Neil Schwartz.
Capt. Chris Beebe, ALPA’s Vice-President-Finance/Treasurer, will chair the Panel.
“I will direct this Panel to develop a strategy to ensure that the FAA considers line pilot interests in any final rule,” Prater said.[/QUOTE]

Panel Chairman is a USAir pilot, old geezer and Pro Age-65.
UAL Capt. old geezer and 100% Pro Age-65.
ATLAS and Fedex Capts. 100% Pro Age-65.

DAL Capt. young(No old geezer capts left) and Pro Age-60

CAL FO and ExpJet CA hopefully 100% Pro Age-60. These two are there for smoke and mirrors though. They will be railroaded.

This Blue Ribbon Panel does not represent the will of ALL ALPA pilots. I call it a B.S. Panel. ALPA National should put the issue to a vote again to see where the group is at.
 
FWIW,
Prater took his road show up to my neck of the woods - ANC - and explained very thoroughly everything that happened with the 65 thing. In it's simplest terms:
-ALPA lobbied for the status quo
-The rule was upheld several times
-Blakey asked for a panel of experts to go over the pros/cons of a rule change
-ALPA was agains it, SWAPA was for it, both on the panel
-In Jan the FAA told ALPA short notice they would be changing the rule.
-It is a FAA rule that is changing so Prater says it would cost a lot to fight and ALPA would most likely not be successful.
-Blue ribbon panel job is NOT to fight the change, it is strictly to educate the FAA as to the financial/regulatory/safety impacts of a rule change.

That is what I heard from the horses mouth. I want to trust him. I hope I can. Time will tell.
 
.


It is a FAA rule that is changing so Prater says it would cost a lot to fight and ALPA would most likely not be successful.


Why don't they get rid of the stupid magazine and put those funds to work defending the age-60 rule ??


No money lost there and a benefit to all !!



.
 
av8instyle said:
-Blue ribbon panel job is NOT to fight the change, it is strictly to educate the FAA as to the financial/regulatory/safety impacts of a rule change.
Click to expand...

That's how I read it. At this point, it's not about lobbying. Age 65 is a done-deal. It's simply the implementation strategy at this point that everyone will work on.
 
Flopgut said:
FO Schwartz has done some good things and is a smart dude. But, he will not neccessarily be able to read the will of the ALPA majority as a mandate. He'll get caught up in the hubris of the captains on the panel and be doing exactly as they tell him to all too soon.
Click to expand...

Flop...we've gone round and round in the past on some issues so the first sentence is appreciated but I'm not so sure I agree with the second and third sentences.
 
Double Shot said:
Continental First Officer Neil Schwartz

Is he even off probation yet?
Click to expand...

Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China but the BRP presents to the EC/EB in May and I get off probation in April. Had I still been at XJT and on this panel I would be an 8th year Captain (not on probation).
 
BluDevAv8r said:
Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China but the BRP presents to the EC/EB in May and I get off probation in April. Had I still been at XJT and on this panel I would be an 8th year Captain (not on probation).
Click to expand...

Neal,

I am thrilled you are on the BRP. You being on the panel is the ONLY thing I like about the BRP. If Prater was even trying to appear impartial he would of included 3 CA's, 3 FO's on the panel and all of varying ages. Can you imagine the crying of foul there would be if there were 6 FO's, 1 CA on the panel?

I feel John Prater is throwing the ALPA majority (who oppose a change) under the bus and is conveniently putting ALPA's resources towards influencing the implementation of a change instead of opposing a change, and then, if a change occurs, influence the implementation of that change--as his constituency has clearly mandated he should do. Prater has made it very clear he is for a change to the rule, and while giving lip service to the opposition of a change every action he has taken is supportive of a change.

I have worked with Prater in the past at CALALPA when I was at CalX/Xjet. I have always respected him and thought he saw the big picture. I do not deny he is in now in a very tough spot. However, unless something changes dramatically with the direction he is taking on the age 60 issue he is setting himself up for one tough presidency. He is clearly alienating the majority of his membership with his weak stance on Age 60 and I am not sure how he will recover politically from the fallout that will follow him after it becomes more obvious he is selling us out.
 
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SlipItIn said:
Neal,

He is clearly alienating the majority of his membership with his weak stance on Age 60 and I am not sure how he will recover politically from the fallout that will follow him after it becomes more obvious he is selling us out.
Click to expand...

He doesn't care. He gets to work 5 more years which is why he ran in the first place. The MEC members that voted for this jerk should be held accountable for their actions.
 
BluDevAv8r said:
Flop...we've gone round and round in the past on some issues so the first sentence is appreciated but I'm not so sure I agree with the second and third sentences.
Click to expand...

Neal: You did great work at XJET, and you're intellectual for a pilot. That's why they want you. Please proceed with caution; you can be too smart for collective bargaining. There are only three rules: Get the money, get the money, and get the money. You might think I'm wrong, but watch carefully where these captains take this: directly to thier pockets. This isn't new opportunity for all (like new equipment) like they will try to assert. This needs to be balanced as best it can and preserve, among other things, age 60 normal retirements and seniority progression. Please resist the lucrative, koosh job they offer you at ALPA national and the "instant check airman" deal you'll be surprised by from the company. You're better than that.

Additionally, please don't think that because I reffered to you on here that I was trying to call you out. You didn't have to reveal yourself, and if you don't post anymore, that's OK.

Good luck. I hope you and Captain Prater can prove me wrong.
 
It's simply the implementation strategy at this point that everyone will work on.
Click to expand...

RSO - Right Seat Only


Keeping the over-60 guys in the right seat only will minimize impact to career progression, while providing income to those who just can't afford to retire at 60. Plus, it avoids the scheduling furballs created by the "only one front-seater over 60" deal.

Maybe if I say it enough it will catch on.....
 
Huck said:
RSO - Right Seat Only


Keeping the over-60 guys in the right seat only will minimize impact to career progression, while providing income to those who just can't afford to retire at 60. Plus, it avoids the scheduling furballs created by the "only one front-seater over 60" deal.

Maybe if I say it enough it will catch on.....
Click to expand...

Hmm? You believe only Mexicans, Canadians, Brits, Germans, or an other non American pilot should be allowed to fly as Captain. Sorry, that will never fly. I guess another solution would be NO AGE 60+ F/Os. :beer:
 
There may be hope

Never underestimate the power of the Schwartz.
 
FoxHunter said:
Hmm? You believe only Mexicans, Canadians, Brits, Germans, or an other non American pilot should be allowed to fly as Captain. Sorry, that will never fly. I guess another solution would be NO AGE 60+ F/Os. :beer:
Click to expand...

That is not acceptable. If I am a 59 year old FO, who enjoys the schedule and don't want to upgrade, why is the goverment going to force me out???????

Congratulations Prater, you just opened up the biggest can of warms. Way to go to make a name for yourself. This age 60 "possible change" would result in discrimination lawsuits not matter what. The age 60 rule works, ALPA members by almost 70% want it in place, and it won't solve any issues. NO TO THE CHANGE.

Also, Prater if you read this board: Honor, respect, and represent the will of the membership, or RESIGN, before you are forced out.
 

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