Type Rating Question....

[BcPilot99]

Was asked this today by one of my fellow instructors and didn't have a very good explanation......

If you have a commercial pilot rating ( no multi) and say you go to flight safety and get typed in a lear for example, will that count as a multi rating???

I said if might allow you to fly that specific a/c and others that fall under that type, but I doubt it would count as a multi engine rating.....

Any Comments?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

You'll need to pass the MEL ride as per the PTS. A type ride isn't gonna give you ME privies.....

 

[Amish RakeFight]

BTW, how would one be able to commence training for a type rating in a multiengine plane (turbine or otherwise) if they don't have MEL privileges?

 

[minitour]

BTW, how would one be able to commence training for a type rating in a multiengine plane (turbine or otherwise) if they don't have MEL privileges?

Probably the same way one commences training for a multiengine plane without privileges in a multiengine plane? Study, sim, fly - repeat.

-mini

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Probably the same way one commences training for a multiengine plane without privileges in a multiengine plane? Study, sim, fly - repeat.

-mini

Obviously.

I hope you're kidding.

What I was insinuating was that a type ride is just that. Training for PIC privileges on the specific plane you're getting typed in. A type rating program assumes you have the requisite instrument and multiengine privileges and knowledge. The instructor is NOT teaching you how to fly by reference to instruments nor is he giving instruction on the basics of multiengine operations. Those tasks are covered during the respective ME or IFR training and are assumed during the type training.

The type rating is usually a set course and curriculm. This involves the specific handling characteristics, limitations, procedures, etc. of the particular plane. It doesn't include learning to fly with more than one engine. Also, I believethat you must take an MEL ride in an actual plane, not in a simulator which is where the majority of the type may take place.

Perhaps the original poster was confused with obtaining an ATP certificate during the type ride, which can be done if agreed upon prior.

 

[Skyboy722]

BTW, how would one be able to commence training for a type rating in a multiengine plane (turbine or otherwise) if they don't have MEL privileges?

This is correct. One would need the multi prior to the type ride, or perform the ME maneuvers per the PTS during the ride.

 

[flyboyike]

A type rating program assumes you have the requisite instrument and multiengine privileges and knowledge. The instructor is NOT teaching you how to fly by reference to instruments nor is he giving instruction on the basics of multiengine operations.

This is most likely true at FlightSafety etc, but it doesn't have to be that way. There is nothing in the FARs that says one can't do all of his ME training in a Lear or even a 744. However, the checkride would then have to include all of the normal multi stuff plus Lear-specific stuff. I'm not aware of any outfit that does this type of thing, but there is nothing that prohibits it.

I'm aware of at least two guys who did all their training in a twin. Their Private Pilot checkride was also their multi checkride. Unusual, yes, but totally legal.

 

[CFIse]

Was asked this today by one of my fellow instructors and didn't have a very good explanation......

If you have a commercial pilot rating ( no multi) and say you go to flight safety and get typed in a lear for example, will that count as a multi rating???

I said if might allow you to fly that specific a/c and others that fall under that type, but I doubt it would count as a multi engine rating.....

Any Comments?

You can't put a type rating on a certificate for a category and class of aircraft you are not certified to fly. So you can't put a type rating for a multi-engine airplane on a single engine restricted certificate.

You could do the multi-engine checkride and type ride at the same time, but you'd have to cover all the required items.

For example - if I take all the training for an instrument rating and pass the checkride even though I don't have an existing certificate should that automatically give me a private single engine? If it worked that way nobody would bother with the private pilot syllabus, what would be the point.

 

[Hung Start]

Well, in the old days (jeez, I'm starting to ache), you NEEDED 200 hours of total time before you could even apply for an instrument rating. I think that was pic time also. I forget what it is now,,,, Alzheimers, you know,,,,,,,,


Hung

 

[landlover]

Well, in the old days (jeez, I'm starting to ache), you NEEDED 200 hours of total time before you could even apply for an instrument rating. I think that was pic time also. I forget what it is now,,,, Alzheimers, you know,,,,,,,,


Hung

all you need now is a private pilot certificate and 20 hours dual recieved on ifr procedures.

 

[Lead Sled]

This is correct. One would need the multi prior to the type ride, or perform the ME maneuvers per the PTS during the ride.

Bingo, you win the prize. A few years back, we hired a guy who had just gotten out of the Air Force. He had a commercial multi-engine (limited to centerline thrust) and instrument ratings. We sent him to FSI for an Astra type. He went down there with his ATP written passed; he had to do everything - AMEL, ATP, Astra type, but he was able to do it one one ride in the sim.

Years ago, there was a Hollywood actor - Danny Kay, who did all of his flight training for his PPL in a Beech Queen Air. The military has essentially been doing this for years; just a few hours in a single the comes the T-37 and T-38.

Back in the 90's when I was flying Lears, there were a few guys that came to Tucson to get Lear types on private certificates. They also were limited to VFR. Imagine that, flying a 20 series Lear on a PPL and not being able to climb above 17,500 feet!

LS

 

[JAFI]

Back in the 90's when I was flying Lears, there were a few guys that came to Tucson to get Lear types on private certificates. They also were limited to VFR. Imagine that, flying a 20 series Lear on a PPL and not being able to climb above 17,500 feet!

LS

You do not see many VFR only type ratings any more. FlightSafety (some centers) use to hand those out like candy. Not any more. Now the ATP PTS is specific when a VFR only type can be issued.

 

[v1valarob]

You could do the multi-engine checkride and type ride at the same time, but you'd have to cover all the required items.

So when the person goes to do all of their XC's and pattern work solo, the CFI can sign off on the back of their student certificate that they can fly a ME aircraft as a student?

-Rob

 

[nosehair]

So when the person goes to do all of their XC's and pattern work solo, the CFI can sign off on the back of their student certificate that they can fly a ME aircraft as a student?

-Rob

Yes. A 'student pilot' is not restricted to light single-engine airplanes. That is a restriction that usually occurs due to financial and insurance reasons. If you can afford it, you could also learn to fly - and solo - in a jet - or a King Air, or whatever.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Yes. A 'student pilot' is not restricted to light single-engine airplanes. That is a restriction that usually occurs due to financial and insurance reasons. If you can afford it, you could also learn to fly - and solo - in a jet - or a King Air, or whatever.

Solo a jet.... I suppose assuming it's one that allows for single pilot flying.

 

[JimNtexas]

Do the Air Force pilots who train in the T-1 get a centerline thrust restriction on their FAA certificates (assuming no MEL prior to UPT)?

 

[JAFI]

Jim, The short answer "NO", or at least they should not. The T1 is a B400 and a "civilian" aircraft with no center thrust restriction on a pilot certificate.

Ref: FAA Order 8700

These are the aircraft that have no Vmc information:

E. Limited-to-Center Thrust Limitation.
(1) The military aircraft listed below have no Vmc established by the manufacturer. Other military multiengine airplanes may exist now or in the future for which there is no published data on Vmc. Military pilots who can only show qualification in those kinds of multiengine airplanes may only be issued a multiengine airplane rating with the limitation “Limited-to-Center Thrust.”
(a) T-2B/C Rockwell Buckeye.
(b) T-37 Cessna 318.
(c) T-38 Northrop Talon.
(d) F-4 McDonnell-Douglas Phantom.
(e) F-111 General Dynamics F-111.
(f) F-18 Northrop-McDonnell-Douglas Hornet.
(g) A6-E Grumman American Intruder.
(h) A-10 Fairchild Republic Thunderbolt II.
(i) F-15 McDonnell-Douglas Eagle.
(j) F-14 Grumman F-14.
(k) F-117 Lockheed Stealth.
(l) F-22 Boeing/McDonnell F-22.
(2) The “Limited-to-Center Thrust” limitation is not placed on a pilot certificate when the airplane has a V published on the airplane’s type certificate data sheet or approved flight manual.